

Eclipse 2.1 Released 298
insomnia writes "Eclipse 2.1 has been unleashed to the world today. Eclipse is an open-source Java IDE environnement and I highly recommend it; developing under your favorite text editor feels like comparing Eclipse to the dinosaur age - I can't live without refactoring now. You can see what's new in this release here."
Eclipse, Java ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Eclipse, Java ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Eclipse, Java ... (Score:3, Interesting)
I saw nary a Sun logo on the eclipse.org [eclipse.org] page of consortium members.
With IBM, HP(Compaq) and several other *nix vendors - as well a several application vendors that drive Sun harware sales - in the consortium, you'd figure they'd be in from the get-go.
IMHO, this just goes to show that Sun doesn't truly get what OSS is yet (Open Office [openoffice.org] being the exception to the rule), and what it could do for them. If they would release Java as a true open standard, they'd end up looking like the prover
Wow. (Score:5, Informative)
That's all I can say... they've certainly packed an awful lot into this release. The JDT team, in particular, seems to be consistent about picking up some of the best features of other IDEs and editors and incorporating them into Eclipse.
If you do Java development, I'd recommend giving Eclipse a try. I've been using it for about a year now, to do plugin developent for Eclipse itself, and I'm still finding out new tricks and shortcuts to make my life easier.
If you do C/C++ development, check out the CDT [eclipse.org] project. While the current incarnation (1.0.1) of CDT is definitely usable, there's a lot of work going on to expand the capabilities of the C/C++ support and bring it up to par with the Java development tools - adding in things like incremental compilation, source navigation/browsing, refactoring, and all the other IDE goodies that Java devlopers already enjoy.
Plus - there's over 250 plugins [2y.net] available for Eclipse, including things like an RSS channel monitor [negrej.free.fr] for slashdot in your IDE.
Re:Wow. (Score:2)
Finally!!! (Score:4, Informative)
People may think Java is dead, but it is far from it, and Eclipse will keep those who must (or want to) code in it very very happy. If you know the features, it makes life so much easier. You can have your VI if you want, but when developing REAL applications you need more than a text editor if you want the software released before it's obsolete. I strongly urge you to just test it out and give it a chance - it is by far the best IDE I have ever used.
Re:Finally!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
I use Jedit right now for almost all my writing and programming. It's great for XML/XSL, perl, python, PHP and it even has some odball plug ins like memento which is a small PIM and code2HTML which I use way more then I ever thought I would.
Is Eclipse as good as Jedit? Better? I love jedit but I'll switch if it's better.
Re:Finally!!! (Score:2)
I strongly suggest you try eclipse over jedit development. With plugins, Jedit may do almost everything that eclipse does, but eclipse does them more smoothly and cohesively. Right now thought its only for java/c/c++ (even COBOL!) but that won't stop people for writing plugins for everything.
Re:Finally!!! (Score:2)
create a plugin project, fire the wizard, choose xml editor, and you have one
just associate it with your xml files, and your done.
Re:Finally!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Comparing jEdit to Eclipse is difficult though. jEdit has so many friggen plugins it's almost detrimental
CVS support is slightly better in this release as well.
The actual Java editor has reduced my keystrokes for symbols by a factor of 1.8 or so
Eclipse is a wonderful IDE in it's own right, but I wouldn't through away a good editor as well. You may find yourself only using jEdit for things not supported by Eclipse, since Eclipse is the easiest to use between the two.
Basically, my suggestion to people in your class is give Eclipse a good few days of work. Let it manage your classes for a while. Once you have a lot of classes, you absolutely can't live without the refactoring support. You can tell Eclipse to rename a class, and every class it has control of that uses that class will be changed to use the new class name.
Eclipse is by far the best IDE I've seen in a long time. The Netbeans people are working hard to catch up. They are making leaps of progress on their performance issues. I think before long we'll have some competition in the Open Source Java editor market.
For those of you who don't know why SUN isn't working with the Eclipse people, it's because they are working with the NetBeans people. It's an Open Source editor that rivals with Eclipse. Eclipse is part of IBM's WebSphere product as well, so IBM has a very real reason to want their editor to be the best. If SUN helped out the Eclipse project, they would be playing favorites pretty much.
Re:Finally!!! (Score:2)
GTK plugin (Score:3, Interesting)
It would be great if it were included as a default plugin.
Re:GTK plugin (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:GTK plugin (Score:2)
Installing GTK2 for Eclipse (Score:2)
To upgrade this GTK I had to rebuild some pieces which in binary RPM form were built against a newer glibc than what I had.
Emacs for the new millenium (Score:5, Insightful)
But seriously, it looks good, and their replacement for Java's bloated and slow Swing GUI toolkit should be adopted by Sun yesterday.
Re:Emacs for the new millenium (Score:2)
Re:Emacs for the new millenium (Score:2)
Re:Emacs for the new millenium (Score:4, Informative)
If you're finding Eclipse slow try editing Eclipse.app/Contents/Info.plist and change JVMVersion to 1.4.1. Seems to make a big difference on my machine.
(You need to have Java 1.4.1 installed, of course)
Re:Emacs for the new millenium (Score:2)
I really like the idea of a decent IDE for Linux, but at the moment I'm torn between XEmacs and Eclipse, and XEmacs wins, simply because I spend most of the time editing text, not browsing object trees or whatever. What I'd love to see is for Eclipse to be able to embed the emacs editing engine. I don't think it's going to happen though.
Re:Emacs for the new millenium (Score:2)
w00t (Score:5, Informative)
Downloading...
Re:w00t (Score:2, Informative)
I thought that was standard functionality for a stack trace in an IDE? Visual Studio has done this for years, though without the hand/underline highlighting. IMHO, if you're going to put a stack trace in an IDE, this is a required feature. Otherwise, why would I use the IDE for debugging in the first place?
And just to pimp my own favorite IDE (well, it's not so much an IDE as it is a full-featu
Re:w00t (Score:2)
What would really rock would be if it could do the same for stack traces appearing in ANY window. So if one of your users sent an email with a stack trace in it, you could click it and go to the source.
IDEs vs. Text Editors (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:IDEs vs. Text Editors (Score:2, Informative)
Color coding is nice so you can see at a glance what is a variable, what is a function call, what's a constant, etc. Sure, you can do that with naming conventions (variables get lowerCaseCamelCasing, functions get UpperCaseCamelCasing, constants are ALLCAPS, etc), but that s
Re:IDEs vs. Text Editors (Score:2)
The biggest thing I would miss if I went back to a text editor would me the auto-completion. Some call it code-sinsight, aother code-completeion, other auto-complete. But he fact that I can get a quick in-place list of methods/members without referring to another file, or documentation, ro header file, is awesome.
I know, I know, it sounbs so trivial. But I believe this to have been the biggest efficienncy in IDE design ever! And, I'm sorry, notepad just doesn't have it.
jEdit [jedit.org], on the other hand... t
Re:IDEs vs. Text Editors (Score:2)
Use a better Editor, then. Emacs can auto-complete both based on tags (i.e. it understands you source code), and even without it, for every kind of text format you happen to write: it just looks in all the open buffers for possible completions.
I write Common Lisp using the Ilisp package mostly, and with that you also get hints about the arguments a function wants etc.
Or you could get a real editor (Score:2)
It also does code coloring, flexible auto-indent, browsing to a given tag (like Browse Symbol in JBuilder), make from within the editor allowing a jump right to each error, ditto for file grepping, etc, etc, etc.
And Vim's had all this for years, runs equally usably on my home machine (pathetic K6-333 laptop w/128MB of RAM) and my work machine (P4 1.5GHz w/512MB of RAM) and runs equally well in Lin
Re:IDEs vs. Text Editors (Score:2)
Redundancy (Score:2, Informative)
grammar nazi hat on
Am I the only one who reads IDE environment and cringes at the redundancy? It's the same as people saying they need a NIC card for their computer.
Eclipse is an open-source Java IDE. My computer can talk to other computers because it has a NIC.
grammar nazi hat off
Sorry, but that's just one my my pet peeves.
Since we're picking nits.. (Score:2)
err, no it's not. from eclipse.org:
"Eclipse is a kind of universal tool platform - an open extensible IDE for anything and nothing in particular"
Granted, i'm sure at this point that the most popular use of Eclipse is as a Java IDE, but let's not limit it's potential!
Re:Redundancy (Score:2)
Hey yeah, that's like when I was at the bank and I needed to know my personal PIN identification number!
Being an American (Score:2, Funny)
Speaking of redunancy, how many of those letters in 'aux jus' are silent?
Refactoring does not depend on Eclipse: Emacs! (Score:3, Informative)
You can have a better IDE [gnu.org.] doing refactoring [xref-tech.com.] as well.
Re:Refactoring does not depend on Eclipse: Emacs! (Score:4, Interesting)
You cant really compare that - Xrefactory isn't even free-as-in-beer.
XEmacs sure is nice, but neither its code completion support (filling in whole method names while you type) nor its support for refactoring come anywhere near Eclipse. And don't let me get started about "Quick Fix".
Actually i would be delighted if anyone could show i'm wrong and tell me how to do it - XEmacs really has a steep learning curve (imho).
Re:Refactoring does not depend on Eclipse: Emacs! (Score:2)
What other editor is powerful enough to keep giving you things to learn, ten years after you start using it?
I mean, sure, that's a downside if you don't like learning things..
Re:Refactoring does not depend on Eclipse: Emacs! (Score:2)
Some of us prefer to use powerful, but still relatively simple tools, so that we can get on with our jobs. I'm paid to design and develop software (amongst other related things), not to learn to use a tool.
Re:Refactoring does not depend on Eclipse: Emacs! (Score:5, Interesting)
If I want "a sea in which a gnat may drink and an elephant may bathe," I'll play chess. And a monolithic tool that needs a 2,560-page manual and a 17-week qualification period is no fun. Give me robust but lithe and agile tools that I can string together with a minimum of grunting and get out of my way!.
Years (decades?) ago, I was one of the fringe-warriors in the various editor holy wars [elsewhere.org], but as I grew older and wiser I realized it had less to do with the tool and more to do with the craftsman. Now, I prefer to craft my code myself, not let an IDE do too much for me. (How much is too much? "I can't define it but I know it when I see it" [Quoting Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's comment on obscenity.] As soon as the tool spends less time helping me and more time being in my way, it's out of here.
I may give this a try (Score:2)
I use netbeans [netbeans.org] and find its a perfect ballance between functionality and slimness. You may want to download and give it a shot. Eclispe seemed to bloat very quickly if you add all the plugins and the fileview gets clogged easily. Of coarse this was the beta version so I will give it another shot.
Re:I may give this a try (Score:2)
Re:I may give this a try (Score:2)
Well, actually I think it might still technically be in experimental status.
Re:I may give this a try (Score:2)
I actually had the same feeling when I tried eclipse 1.x. It turns out, eclipse 1.x was just too primitive. 2.0 is great. 2.1, which I'm downloading now, looks like it will be fantastic!
good education (Score:4, Informative)
I've been using eclipse since 2.0, and have been closely following its development - at first out of curiosity (when I discovered Erich Gamma of the Design Patterns fame was on the project), but have over time learnt a great deal from their articles and best practices...
Anyway, one of my favourite features is its scrapbook that lets you execute Java statements on the fly like an interpreted language.
Worth a try if you haven't experienced it. I should know... there's an unused paid JBuilder license still sitting in my drawer.
It's not an IDE, it's a platform (Score:5, Insightful)
I know that that is a common possibility in all Open Source projects, but Eclipse makes it really practical, using their plug-in system. I mean that you don't have to learn the whole damn bloat of code to start adding some menu point to it. I'm developing a plug-in, and while not trivial, it's affordable.I've been developing for more years than I care. And never sensed the same kind of power as now, when I can modify my IDE to suit my preferences. Efficiency is starting to climb, even considering the time developing the plug-in. And it'b bound to skyrocket as it gets perferctioned. I mean, most of my development has a high percentage of repetitive work, that is probably different for other developers. I'm now putting all that repetitive work in automated code generation routines. It will save me ages. And Eclipse offers a lot of built-in functionality that allows you to concentrate on the real issues.
Plus, the documentation is good. I would almost call it first-class.
I've been waiting for something like Eclipse since I did my first C code to generate COBOL list programs. So it's a while. Well, I must leave you, gentelmen, I think my download of the 2.1 is finished
Re:It's not an IDE, it's a platform (Score:2)
Unfortunately emacs doesn't seem to have power IDE features these days. eTags just isn't as good as drop down code completion for instance.
I still prefer xemacs though, simply because it fills the screen with what you're actually working on, rather than cramping it into a tiny wind
Re:It's not an IDE, it's a platform (Score:2)
Modern IDEs including Eclipse generally have the ability to arrange the work area any way you want.
Good for PHP Developers too (Score:3, Informative)
Excellent Cross platform PHP/HTML IDE
Now all I need is a -good- XML/XSLT editing plugin and I can have all of my dev work in one integrated tool.
(Guess I'll have to pick up some esoteric language so I can have a reason to keep vim open, wouldn't feel right to be so efficient
Still unusable (Score:2)
This kills it dead for a lot of people...Is there no way to debug jsp's with Eclipse?
Re:Still unusable (Score:5, Informative)
You're missing the point. So Eclipse doesn't provide a Tomcat plugin; big deal. A number of other developers provide plugins [eclipse.org] to do almost anything you might want, most of them open source (though there are some commercial plugins.) Have a look at the SysDeo Tomcat Plugin [sysdeo.com] before you pass judgement on Eclipse.
My only gripe with Eclipse plugins is that Eclipse doesn't have a central repository that uses their automatic install/update mechanism for plugins to save people from having to hunt for the plugins. Instead they've let the community pick up the slack -- so you sometimes have to hunt around looking for just the right plugin.
Slashdotted already? (Score:2, Informative)
I've tried both the FTP and HTTP links. I'm currently getting 2.58kb/sec on my fancy broadband connection.
Eclipse Does Swing! (Score:5, Informative)
Frankly, I dont give a damn what toolkits the eclipse developers have used. It is a great, free, open source product. I'll worry about the SWT when I develop for eclipse and not with eclipse.
I think this is an important point, so if someone with a little more knowledge of the subject can confirm this, please do so. Or please educate me if I am wrong.
You're right. (Score:2)
Not free but ... IntelliJ is by far the best (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not free but ... IntelliJ is by far the best (Score:2)
Can you point out some of the featuresin IntelliJ that you have yet to see in another IDE? Heh, maybe it will be a starting poi9nt for the next feature list to ecipse!
Re:Not free but ... IntelliJ is by far the best (Score:2)
Let's just say it's the helmsman, not the tiller, that determines the quality and maintainability of a particular unit of source code.
Regards,
Ross
Swinging with Eclipse (Score:2)
I've been using Eclipse for a year now as my primary Java development platform. My primary client loves Macs; I run Linux; we test on Windows -- all using one set of projects and Eclipse 2.x. Yesterday, while testing a largish Java application, I ran Eclipse on both Win2k and Linux boxes, against a single copy of the code residing on a share; it was a dammed fast way to test the code across platforms.
And our application is 100% Pure Java, 100% Swing -- no SWT. None.
While I prefer Nedit/xterm for my C
Re:Swinging with Eclipse (Score:2)
You must be using a different version than I do. On my 1.8 GHz laptop (512 MB, RedHat 8.0) it takes Eclipse 2.1-motif 9 seconds (no plugins, no open files) to start up the second time.
ctrl+1 (Score:2)
A simple example: You're working on a bit of code that needs to call a method on
Tried to View their On-line Slide Show... (Score:2)
This presentation contains content that your browser may not be able to show properly. This presentation was optimized for more recent versions of Microsoft Internet Explorer.
Cross platform IDE, Single platform documentation
Too much integration is too limiting... (Score:2)
I cannot stand to have one tool that has everything built into it. I would much rather just combine two or t
Educational Tool (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't get me wrong, dealing with your "tools" is a part of programming and programmers need to learn these things. However, for an entry leve
Can't find screenshots on website. (Score:2)
Re:Java (Score:5, Informative)
Java will run as fast or as slow as you make it. We've re-written C applicatons in Java and actually made them run faster by improving the architecture. If you try to write a Java app using C/C++ programming techniques, it will suck. If you take the time to learn how Java is supposed to work, you'll be 10 times more productive and create a product of equal (or better) quality.
Re:Java (Score:3, Troll)
I would not recommend Java for small programs. But my company sells a scientific application that is written in Java. It handles large amounts of data and applies clustering algorithms that are computationally intensive. Compared with the sheer amoun
Re:Java (Score:2)
Re:Java (Score:2)
Re:Java (Score:2)
I especially liked the part where he explains to Bjarne why JavaScript has a better type system.
Re:Java (Score:3, Interesting)
I have to agree with this. It seriously must be a troll, but whatever I can't let that stand.
/. posted a few days ago by Tim Bray. Instead what I get is the rantings of a kid barely
It is unbelievable how rude some people are. I read this guy MillionthMonkey (240664)'s fscking page thinking I might get a well-reasoned report on why, exactly, C++ sucks, possibly similar to the XML sucks article
Re:Java (Score:2)
You're the third person who thought that was a link to my own page. I guess I have to start using those smileys in my posts.
Re:Java (Score:2)
sed 's/MillionthMonkey/andraskonya@hotmail.com/g' $last_slashpost > $next_slashdotpost
Re:Java (Score:2)
Especially I would not insult someone that can code rings around you and the kids website. If you do not know much about c++/c then don't bitch. You have no idea what your talking about. Also the kids website mentioned he had a poor instructor who could not even read c++ code. This might have something to do with it.
I know p
Re:Java (Score:2)
Re:Java (Score:2)
You want a serious enterprise language? Try LISP or Smalltalk.
Re:Java (Score:3, Insightful)
Admittedly, there may be a way to rethink lisp and smalltalk such that compiled code can be easily separated and independently manipulated, but enterprise Java applications are just so much easier to manage largely because of the strategy chosen for breaking up deliverable units.
As for syntax, I tend a
Re:Java (Score:5, Informative)
But... I do know that Eclipse is a general-purpose IDE which happens to be written in Java... You can use Eclipse to develop in other languages by installing the appropriate language plug-in.
I just installed Eclipse last week & I'm going to use it for PHP development...
Re:Java (Score:3, Insightful)
I am sure language per se can not be such a deciding factor when designing enterprise applications and the fact that it runs on VM or the fact that users of app would have to purchase Big IRON machines to run it. No, there are never the deciding factors!
Java is certainly not suitable for certain kind of applications but so is any other language. and this
Re:Java (Score:5, Interesting)
All business logic for this large enterprise is being developed (or redeveloped) into Java. This has been going on for 3-4 years, and has already proven itself very much.
For "enterprises" the fact that you need 50% more RAM and 20% more CPU compared to C++ is insignificant. UNIX hardware is very cheap compared to mainframes, and especially compared to people. If you get better code that is easier to develop and maintain, it is by far worth it. Also Java offers lots of rich standard API's (in J2EE) that "everyone" uses, avoiding difficult choices and gambles if you base your software on the 'correct' standards.
Since banks often rely on 3rd party software/components (e.g. that implement some reporting according to international banking standards) and all vendors offer components that fit into the std. Java frameworks, there is hardly another option.
It depends - and not in investment banking (Score:2)
The correct solution is to code everything out of the performance critical loop in whatver language is easy and cheap to work with, and then you write what actually matters in t
Re:It depends - and not in investment banking (Score:2)
I'm really hoping Paul Graham finishes Arc in the next century so that Lisp might have a chance to thrive again.
Re:It depends - and not in investment banking (Score:2)
Re:Java (Score:2)
An excellent troll, you are to be commended.
Seriously. It looked really clunky to me, but you hooked 'em AND the daft fuckers got modded to +5.
Sweet.
Dave
Re:Java (Score:5, Insightful)
A quick check of pricewatch shows that a 512MB stick of DDR2700 is $49. So for less than $100, you can have a gig. Ram isn't an issue any more. 2GHz+ CPUs are floating in the low hundred dollar range, so CPU power won't be an issue by the time any program started now is released.
A quick look at what java is used for shows it isn't made for prepackaged, store bought programs like Photoshop (Sklyarov), Warcraft (BNetD) or Word (to many to mention, the messages probably cap at a gig in length). These are the domain for C. Java is used for business logic, multi-tiered client/server programming, and interfaces for knowledge workers. That is where it rules. It has connectivity, net-awareness, security and a general lack of bugged code built into it's genes in a way that other languages simply never will.
When you write in java, most of the crap simply isn't there. You can write components easily, and deploy them across a corporation with a large, hetrogenous computing infrastructure with little if any porting. This is what gives CIOs wet dreams, and saves cubic dollars for companies. Add that to the fact that you can run it on damn near everything from a cell phone to a sun 15K, and you have a good deal of flexibility.
You are looking at this from a perspective of someone writing an app for a user to run on a PC. This is a very valid programming model, but not the one that java is aimed at. While it will work, you are missing out on what makes java shine.
-Charlie
Re:Java (Score:5, Interesting)
As I once said to someone else, porting code is hard work and expensive. In relative terms upgrading the hardware to the best out there without caring for your porting issues is very cheap. Not only that but you also minimize downtime.
Use what you want and understand everyone else's reason for using what they want.
Re:OT: but what's up with slashdot? (Score:2)
Re:OT: but what's up with slashdot? (Score:2)
Re:OT: but what's up with slashdot? (Score:2)
Because it was posted on Slashdot (somewhere %), it runned the risk at being slashdotted, so they put in a static page.
Re:OT: but what's up with slashdot? (Score:2)
Re:OT: but what's up with slashdot? (Score:2)
Eclipse vs. Idea (Score:3, Insightful)
The best way to find out which is better for you is to download both and try them.
Re:Eclipse vs. Idea (Score:2, Interesting)
I haven't used Idea yet though I don't think they will be able to keep up with free and open source.
The new features planned for version 2.2 [eclipse.org]will surely blow them out of the water.
I think IBM have done a fantastic job to date and I hope it keeps up.
Re:Eclipse vs. Idea (Score:2)
Re:Eclipse? Nah, not worth it. (Score:2, Insightful)
Are we using two different Eclipses? From unzipping the binary distribution to setting a couple preferences to a System.out.println("Hello world"): 2 min.
Also, how can S
Ignore SWT, use eclipse anyway. (Score:2)
If you want to use SWT, fine, its interesting, but don't get the idea that using Eclipse somehow leads you to SWT.
I'd use Eclipse if they decided to write it in cobol, so long as it works the way it does. CVS integration,
Not a troll (Score:2)
I have also had the same experience that if you criticize something that has its defenders on these pages, you get moderated down as "troll." It is the famous "if you don't kn
OK, I'll bite (Score:2)
For example, you could say, "your statement is non-factual because there is this excellent tutorial abo
Re:Eclipse? Nah, not worth it. (Score:2)
uhm, AWT?
Re:Very Very Nice (Score:2)
Since the switch, I have checked out a number of the plugins (there seem to be many more plugins for Eclipse than for Netbeans) and I must say I'm very impressed. Lomboz is way cool for building/deploying/running/debugging apps within To
Re:dinosaur age - SLOWZILLA (Score:2)
+1 (Me Too) (Score:2)
Maybe Eclipse 2.2 will be better, I understand there's an option to edit files outside a project...