Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!


Forgot your password?
Java Programming

Eclipse 2.1 Released 298

insomnia writes "Eclipse 2.1 has been unleashed to the world today. Eclipse is an open-source Java IDE environnement and I highly recommend it; developing under your favorite text editor feels like comparing Eclipse to the dinosaur age - I can't live without refactoring now. You can see what's new in this release here."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Eclipse 2.1 Released

Comments Filter:
  • by joeflies ( 529536 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @02:59AM (#5621405)
    Is the name "eclipse" a not so subtle reference to overtaking the Sun?
    • by jpt.d ( 444929 ) <abfall@roger[ ]om ['s.c' in gap]> on Saturday March 29, 2003 @03:09AM (#5621424)
      but my friend, {solar} eclipses only overtake the sun for a short time, and then fade into the abyss. It is the Forté of the Sun that keeps it going bright. The Java Warriors of Solaris will shine bright again!
    • Re:Eclipse, Java ... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Soko ( 17987 )
      Seems plausible.

      I saw nary a Sun logo on the eclipse.org [eclipse.org] page of consortium members.

      With IBM, HP(Compaq) and several other *nix vendors - as well a several application vendors that drive Sun harware sales - in the consortium, you'd figure they'd be in from the get-go.

      IMHO, this just goes to show that Sun doesn't truly get what OSS is yet (Open Office [openoffice.org] being the exception to the rule), and what it could do for them. If they would release Java as a true open standard, they'd end up looking like the prover
  • Wow. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Samrobb ( 12731 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @03:11AM (#5621427) Homepage Journal

    That's all I can say... they've certainly packed an awful lot into this release. The JDT team, in particular, seems to be consistent about picking up some of the best features of other IDEs and editors and incorporating them into Eclipse.

    If you do Java development, I'd recommend giving Eclipse a try. I've been using it for about a year now, to do plugin developent for Eclipse itself, and I'm still finding out new tricks and shortcuts to make my life easier.

    If you do C/C++ development, check out the CDT [eclipse.org] project. While the current incarnation (1.0.1) of CDT is definitely usable, there's a lot of work going on to expand the capabilities of the C/C++ support and bring it up to par with the Java development tools - adding in things like incremental compilation, source navigation/browsing, refactoring, and all the other IDE goodies that Java devlopers already enjoy.

    Plus - there's over 250 plugins [2y.net] available for Eclipse, including things like an RSS channel monitor [negrej.free.fr] for slashdot in your IDE.

  • Finally!!! (Score:4, Informative)

    by jzs9783 ( 612647 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @03:16AM (#5621438)
    Having worked on WSAD at IBM using Eclipse 2.0.1 for development, I have been waiting for this release for quite some time! The main improvement I noticed in RC1/2 was significant speed improvement, especially upon loading.

    People may think Java is dead, but it is far from it, and Eclipse will keep those who must (or want to) code in it very very happy. If you know the features, it makes life so much easier. You can have your VI if you want, but when developing REAL applications you need more than a text editor if you want the software released before it's obsolete. I strongly urge you to just test it out and give it a chance - it is by far the best IDE I have ever used.
    • Re:Finally!!! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Malcontent ( 40834 )
      How is it when not doing java?
      I use Jedit right now for almost all my writing and programming. It's great for XML/XSL, perl, python, PHP and it even has some odball plug ins like memento which is a small PIM and code2HTML which I use way more then I ever thought I would.

      Is Eclipse as good as Jedit? Better? I love jedit but I'll switch if it's better.
      • Eclipse isn't an all purpose editor like jedit. When I'm doing development, I do all my java and ant build files in Eclipse and have another jedit open for editing input files, xml, or anything else I need.

        I strongly suggest you try eclipse over jedit development. With plugins, Jedit may do almost everything that eclipse does, but eclipse does them more smoothly and cohesively. Right now thought its only for java/c/c++ (even COBOL!) but that won't stop people for writing plugins for everything.
      • Re:Finally!!! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by j3110 ( 193209 ) <samterrell@gmaERDOSil.com minus math_god> on Saturday March 29, 2003 @11:36AM (#5622232) Homepage
        The new version of eclipse (2.1) does a better job than 2.0.*. Or at least the latest stable RC builds are :)

        Comparing jEdit to Eclipse is difficult though. jEdit has so many friggen plugins it's almost detrimental :) jEdit takes longer to load because of this. Eclipse has much better ANT integration in this release as well. So you can do XSLT on just the XML that changes with ANT. You'll have to rely on yet more plugins to Eclipse to get any language other than XML, ANT's xml, HTML, and other Java related file formats. I don't think it supports JSP out of the box, but I could be wrong.

        CVS support is slightly better in this release as well.

        The actual Java editor has reduced my keystrokes for symbols by a factor of 1.8 or so :) When you open anything {,(,",' it will automatically make the closing tag where you would expect as well as try to keep you on the right tabbing. All this is configurable by the default coding style settings under Windows->Preferences.

        Eclipse is a wonderful IDE in it's own right, but I wouldn't through away a good editor as well. You may find yourself only using jEdit for things not supported by Eclipse, since Eclipse is the easiest to use between the two.

        Basically, my suggestion to people in your class is give Eclipse a good few days of work. Let it manage your classes for a while. Once you have a lot of classes, you absolutely can't live without the refactoring support. You can tell Eclipse to rename a class, and every class it has control of that uses that class will be changed to use the new class name.

        Eclipse is by far the best IDE I've seen in a long time. The Netbeans people are working hard to catch up. They are making leaps of progress on their performance issues. I think before long we'll have some competition in the Open Source Java editor market.

        For those of you who don't know why SUN isn't working with the Eclipse people, it's because they are working with the NetBeans people. It's an Open Source editor that rivals with Eclipse. Eclipse is part of IBM's WebSphere product as well, so IBM has a very real reason to want their editor to be the best. If SUN helped out the Eclipse project, they would be playing favorites pretty much.
    • Who thinks Java is dead ? Certainly not the agents who phone me on a daily basis with their client's requirements!
  • GTK plugin (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Salsaman ( 141471 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @03:18AM (#5621441) Homepage
    Is the GTK plugin any easier to install yet ? Last time I checked, you had to jump through a number of hoops to get it installed.

    It would be great if it were included as a default plugin.

    • Re:GTK plugin (Score:2, Interesting)

      by burner ( 8666 )
      GTK plugin? I'm confused. I use the GTK2 version of eclipse daily (and have since some time last spring). To what GTK plugin are your referring?
    • I had to "jump through a number of hoops" to install late Eclipse releases on Red Hat 7.3. At first it required the GTK from Red Hat 8. Now it requires an even newer GTK - I now use 2.1.1 from Rawhide.

      To upgrade this GTK I had to rebuild some pieces which in binary RPM form were built against a newer glibc than what I had.

  • by Sanity ( 1431 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @03:23AM (#5621447) Homepage Journal
    This looks like Emacs for the new millenium - namely a powerful editor that occasionally gets confused and thinks that its an entire operating system.

    But seriously, it looks good, and their replacement for Java's bloated and slow Swing GUI toolkit should be adopted by Sun yesterday.

    • Blech, no! Swing is about 10x faster than SWT on Macs. There is no inherent reason SWT is faster than Swing, it's just that the Swing implementations most people use (Sun and Blackice) suck rocks.
      • With respect to SWT, the Mac OS X port is VERY young compared to the Windows, Motif, GTK, and even QNX Photon ports. It will be faster over time. Still Apple did a great job on their Swing implementation, and if any Apple people actually worked on the Mac OS X SWT port (which none of them do), it could be much more competitive.
        • by pldms ( 136522 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @12:40PM (#5622478)
          With respect to SWT, the Mac OS X port is VERY young compared to the Windows, Motif, GTK, and even QNX Photon ports. It will be faster over time.

          If you're finding Eclipse slow try editing Eclipse.app/Contents/Info.plist and change JVMVersion to 1.4.1. Seems to make a big difference on my machine.

          (You need to have Java 1.4.1 installed, of course)
    • Of course, that's all well and good, but last time I tried to use Eclipse, you couldn't even edit the default keybindings.

      I really like the idea of a decent IDE for Linux, but at the moment I'm torn between XEmacs and Eclipse, and XEmacs wins, simply because I spend most of the time editing text, not browsing object trees or whatever. What I'd love to see is for Eclipse to be able to embed the emacs editing engine. I don't think it's going to happen though.

    • Actually no Sun shouldn't have replaced Swing with SWT yesterday. SWT is pretty much designed for Eclipse and it works well there. Swing is vastly more complex and extendible than SWT. Swing doesn't have to be slow either. Like anything else there is well-written Swing code and poorly written Swing code. IntelliJ IDEA and JEdit are examples of well-written Swing code.
  • w00t (Score:5, Informative)

    by tulare ( 244053 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @03:38AM (#5621478) Journal
    From the whatsnew:
    Java stack traces in the console now appear with hyperlinks. When you place the mouse over a line in a stack trace, the pointer changes to the hand and the stack trace is underlined. Pressing the mouse button opens the associated Java source file and positions the cursor at the corresponding line.
    I'm probably a big dork, but I've never seen this feature before, and I'm sure of some great uses for it!
    • Re:w00t (Score:2, Informative)

      by Osty ( 16825 )

      I'm probably a big dork, but I've never seen this feature before, and I'm sure of some great uses for it!

      I thought that was standard functionality for a stack trace in an IDE? Visual Studio has done this for years, though without the hand/underline highlighting. IMHO, if you're going to put a stack trace in an IDE, this is a required feature. Otherwise, why would I use the IDE for debugging in the first place?

      And just to pimp my own favorite IDE (well, it's not so much an IDE as it is a full-featu

    • Java stack traces in the console now appear with hyperlinks. When you place the mouse over a line in a stack trace, the pointer changes to the hand and the stack trace is underlined. Pressing the mouse button opens the associated Java source file and positions the cursor at the corresponding line

      What would really rock would be if it could do the same for stack traces appearing in ANY window. So if one of your users sent an email with a stack trace in it, you could click it and go to the source.
  • by eenglish_ca ( 662371 ) <[eenglish] [at] [gmail.com]> on Saturday March 29, 2003 @03:59AM (#5621504) Homepage
    I have gone backwards in terms of developing software when it comes to using an IDE. Although I don't develop using Java I do work with C++ on a variety of platforms with several IDEs and text editor. When I began I used bloodshed's dev-cpp then moving onto M$'s VC++ as my projects required a better compiler and ide to handle all the files. Now, have gone back to using text editors, notepad and emacs, because I am using the compiler tools, flex and bison, in some of my work. In some ways a basic text editor is easier to work with, of course the nice color coding makes reading your code easier but really your code, when properly formatted(indenting and so forth), should be easy to read in a text editor. In addition, MDI text editors make it a breeze to program because you can have many windows open at once and still have your screen organized. Next to my text editor I have my console in which I type make and my app gets compiled as easy as 1,2,3. GCC is great to work with because it works exactly the same on windows as it does on linux. In addition, if you work on both linux and windows making the transition is easier when you don't have to deal with the clutter of all the features of an IDE no matter how well laid out they are. One of the things that attracts most people to IDEs is that a lot of them come with code wizards and so forth that help with the basic layout of applications. I have never found these to be of much use because I end up scrapping much of the code because it usually isn't as concise as I like it. So for now I will stick with my text editors.
    • by Osty ( 16825 )

      In some ways a basic text editor is easier to work with, of course the nice color coding makes reading your code easier but really your code, when properly formatted(indenting and so forth), should be easy to read in a text editor.

      Color coding is nice so you can see at a glance what is a variable, what is a function call, what's a constant, etc. Sure, you can do that with naming conventions (variables get lowerCaseCamelCasing, functions get UpperCaseCamelCasing, constants are ALLCAPS, etc), but that s

    • The biggest thing I would miss if I went back to a text editor would me the auto-completion. Some call it code-sinsight, aother code-completeion, other auto-complete. But he fact that I can get a quick in-place list of methods/members without referring to another file, or documentation, ro header file, is awesome.

      I know, I know, it sounbs so trivial. But I believe this to have been the biggest efficienncy in IDE design ever! And, I'm sorry, notepad just doesn't have it.

      jEdit [jedit.org], on the other hand... t

      • The biggest thing I would miss if I went back to a text editor would me the auto-completion.... I'm sorry, notepad just doesn't have it.

        Use a better Editor, then. Emacs can auto-complete both based on tags (i.e. it understands you source code), and even without it, for every kind of text format you happen to write: it just looks in all the open buffers for possible completions.

        I write Common Lisp using the Ilisp package mostly, and with that you also get hints about the arguments a function wants etc.

      • Vim [vim.org] (and EMACS for that matter) can do auto-completion using ctags [sourceforge.net] and/or the contents of any open buffers.

        It also does code coloring, flexible auto-indent, browsing to a given tag (like Browse Symbol in JBuilder), make from within the editor allowing a jump right to each error, ditto for file grepping, etc, etc, etc.

        And Vim's had all this for years, runs equally usably on my home machine (pathetic K6-333 laptop w/128MB of RAM) and my work machine (P4 1.5GHz w/512MB of RAM) and runs equally well in Lin

    • The reason I use an IDE is carpal tunnel - I find that it requires a lot less typing to use Eclipse vs. a text editor, and my RSI problems went away when I started using Eclipse. I also feel my code quality is better - Eclipse makes it much easier to clean up or refactor code than if I was using a text editor.

  • Redundancy (Score:2, Informative)

    by tequila26er ( 46835 )

    grammar nazi hat on

    Am I the only one who reads IDE environment and cringes at the redundancy? It's the same as people saying they need a NIC card for their computer.

    Eclipse is an open-source Java IDE. My computer can talk to other computers because it has a NIC.

    grammar nazi hat off

    Sorry, but that's just one my my pet peeves.
    • Eclipse is an open-source Java IDE
      err, no it's not. from eclipse.org:
      "Eclipse is a kind of universal tool platform - an open extensible IDE for anything and nothing in particular"

      Granted, i'm sure at this point that the most popular use of Eclipse is as a Java IDE, but let's not limit it's potential!
    • Am I the only one who reads IDE environment and cringes at the redundancy? It's the same as people saying they need a NIC card for their computer.

      Hey yeah, that's like when I was at the bank and I needed to know my personal PIN identification number!
  • >
    developing under your favorite text editor feels like comparing Eclipse to the dinosaur age - I can't live without refactoring now

    You can have a better IDE [gnu.org.] doing refactoring [xref-tech.com.] as well.

    • by nilsjuergens ( 69927 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @05:29AM (#5621648) Homepage Journal
      > You can have a better IDE [gnu.org.] doing refactoring [xref-tech.com.] as well.

      You cant really compare that - Xrefactory isn't even free-as-in-beer.

      XEmacs sure is nice, but neither its code completion support (filling in whole method names while you type) nor its support for refactoring come anywhere near Eclipse. And don't let me get started about "Quick Fix".

      Actually i would be delighted if anyone could show i'm wrong and tell me how to do it - XEmacs really has a steep learning curve (imho).

  • I tried out Eclipse when it was in beta and didn't like it. The ui felt uncomfortable and I did not like the everything is a plug-in method.

    I use netbeans [netbeans.org] and find its a perfect ballance between functionality and slimness. You may want to download and give it a shot. Eclispe seemed to bloat very quickly if you add all the plugins and the fileview gets clogged easily. Of coarse this was the beta version so I will give it another shot.
    • There's a huge improvement in current versions of Eclipse over earlier releases. It's well worth giving another try - I gave up on it a long time ago but tried it again with the 2.1 release candidates, and it's a completely different environment.
    • In reference to your sig - amazon does have a web service client. It uses mozilla and is fairly cool - I looked through the source code and it shows how nice mozilla is to use for making apps.
      Well, actually I think it might still technically be in experimental status.
    • Just for contrast, I first tried NetBeans/Forte. I hated having to "mount filesystems" (gee, did someone from the *nix world write this thing?). I couldn't get anything to work agaist my current projects.

      I actually had the same feeling when I tried eclipse 1.x. It turns out, eclipse 1.x was just too primitive. 2.0 is great. 2.1, which I'm downloading now, looks like it will be fantastic!
  • good education (Score:4, Informative)

    by hlee ( 518174 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @06:02AM (#5621695)

    I've been using eclipse since 2.0, and have been closely following its development - at first out of curiosity (when I discovered Erich Gamma of the Design Patterns fame was on the project), but have over time learnt a great deal from their articles and best practices...

    • They probably have the best document [eclipse.org] about evolving Java APIs, i.e. maintaining backwards compatibility.
    • Meeting deadlines. When they publish a game plan, they stick to it - very rarely missing their milestones. They've long adopted continuous integration (automated builds, unit tests), and frequent releases.
    • SWT - their cross platform widget set, which has ports for most windowing systems under the sun. Its a lot faster and looks better than Swing. Its really a very thin JNI layer (C to Java interface) on top of the native APIs, so if you've programmed in GTK, you could take a look at the wrappers and figure out pretty quickly how to use SWT. It does have problems if there are humongous amounts of calls to be made (like with large tables - in which case you can just use Swing).

    Anyway, one of my favourite features is its scrapbook that lets you execute Java statements on the fly like an interpreted language.

    Worth a try if you haven't experienced it. I should know... there's an unused paid JBuilder license still sitting in my drawer.

  • by OpenSourced ( 323149 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @06:21AM (#5621724) Journal
    I'm seeing here in the comments that most miss the real point of Eclipse. It's not an IDE for Java. That's simply a side-issue, or more properly a concept proof. What really smash you about Eclipse once you start using it is the possibility of modifying your own environment.

    I know that that is a common possibility in all Open Source projects, but Eclipse makes it really practical, using their plug-in system. I mean that you don't have to learn the whole damn bloat of code to start adding some menu point to it. I'm developing a plug-in, and while not trivial, it's affordable.I've been developing for more years than I care. And never sensed the same kind of power as now, when I can modify my IDE to suit my preferences. Efficiency is starting to climb, even considering the time developing the plug-in. And it'b bound to skyrocket as it gets perferctioned. I mean, most of my development has a high percentage of repetitive work, that is probably different for other developers. I'm now putting all that repetitive work in automated code generation routines. It will save me ages. And Eclipse offers a lot of built-in functionality that allows you to concentrate on the real issues.

    Plus, the documentation is good. I would almost call it first-class.

    I've been waiting for something like Eclipse since I did my first C code to generate COBOL list programs. So it's a while. Well, I must leave you, gentelmen, I think my download of the 2.1 is finished :)

    • Well yes, but emacs has been doing that for years. It's all defined in Lisp, so you can extend, rewrite, and customise virtually everything. I think it's more powerful than the Eclipse plugin method, certainly lighter weight.

      Unfortunately emacs doesn't seem to have power IDE features these days. eTags just isn't as good as drop down code completion for instance.

      I still prefer xemacs though, simply because it fills the screen with what you're actually working on, rather than cramping it into a tiny wind

  • by Bishop923 ( 109840 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @07:34AM (#5621816)
    With the release of Eclipse 2.1 Xored [xored.com] has released version 0.3.4 of the WebStudio plugin that is compatable (Finally we can stop using 2.1 M5...)

    Excellent Cross platform PHP/HTML IDE

    Now all I need is a -good- XML/XSLT editing plugin and I can have all of my dev work in one integrated tool.

    (Guess I'll have to pick up some esoteric language so I can have a reason to keep vim open, wouldn't feel right to be so efficient :-) )

  • From the FAQ:

    Is there a Tomcat plug-in?

    No, the Eclipse SDK does not include a Tomcat plug-in.

    This kills it dead for a lot of people...Is there no way to debug jsp's with Eclipse?

    • Re:Still unusable (Score:5, Informative)

      by miniver ( 1839 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @09:20AM (#5621906) Homepage

      You're missing the point. So Eclipse doesn't provide a Tomcat plugin; big deal. A number of other developers provide plugins [eclipse.org] to do almost anything you might want, most of them open source (though there are some commercial plugins.) Have a look at the SysDeo Tomcat Plugin [sysdeo.com] before you pass judgement on Eclipse.

      My only gripe with Eclipse plugins is that Eclipse doesn't have a central repository that uses their automatic install/update mechanism for plugins to save people from having to hunt for the plugins. Instead they've let the community pick up the slack -- so you sometimes have to hunt around looking for just the right plugin.

  • Slashdotted already? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Trinition ( 114758 )
    Anyone have a miror?

    I've tried both the FTP and HTTP links. I'm currently getting 2.58kb/sec on my fancy broadband connection.
  • Eclipse Does Swing! (Score:5, Informative)

    by alacqua ( 535697 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @11:23AM (#5622181) Homepage
    Ive seen posts here and on previous articles implying that eclipse forces developerse to use the SWT. Am I missing something? Id swear I wrote Swing code with eclipse. My (limited) understanding is that eclipse is written in Java and the eclipse developers chose to use the SWT, but that in no way affects the way you write your code. In particular, you may freely write Swing code while using eclipse.

    Frankly, I dont give a damn what toolkits the eclipse developers have used. It is a great, free, open source product. I'll worry about the SWT when I develop for eclipse and not with eclipse.

    I think this is an important point, so if someone with a little more knowledge of the subject can confirm this, please do so. Or please educate me if I am wrong.

    • A couple of weeks ago I finished a couple thousand lines of Java code for a pretty simple app a friend of mine needed. Heavy use of Swing throughout--Eclipse handled it just fine. In fact, I would've been more surprised if Eclipse hadn't handled it just fine.
  • by ajm ( 9538 ) on Saturday March 29, 2003 @11:26AM (#5622191)
    I know we're meant to be talking about Eclipse but if you're in the market for an IDE and you don't look at IntelliJ IDEA you're missing out. At work we have saved the purchase price ($700, far less than so called "Enterprise" tools) many times over. The whole tool works so cleanly and unobtrusively it doesn't get between you and your code. The only downside is it tends to turn its users into partisans in the same way that emacs does. If you're worried that you'll end up posting to Slashdot praising a commercial product then stay away.
    • I've read the feature list many timesz, and it is impresive. And I've talke to people who've used it any they love it! However, I'm starting to see eclipse catch up (and maybe others?).

      Can you point out some of the featuresin IntelliJ that you have yet to see in another IDE? Heh, maybe it will be a starting poi9nt for the next feature list to ecipse!
    • Several of the other developers in my office use Idea, and though they get their import statements automanaged, there are clearly other factors at work when you look at who wrote what and the functionality of that effort.

      Let's just say it's the helmsman, not the tiller, that determines the quality and maintainability of a particular unit of source code.

  • I've been using Eclipse for a year now as my primary Java development platform. My primary client loves Macs; I run Linux; we test on Windows -- all using one set of projects and Eclipse 2.x. Yesterday, while testing a largish Java application, I ran Eclipse on both Win2k and Linux boxes, against a single copy of the code residing on a share; it was a dammed fast way to test the code across platforms.

    And our application is 100% Pure Java, 100% Swing -- no SWT. None.

    While I prefer Nedit/xterm for my C

    • Even on a 2.8GHz Pentium 4, it takes Eclipse more than a minute to start up. And the search/replace mechanism is primitive at best and ineffective at worst.

      You must be using a different version than I do. On my 1.8 GHz laptop (512 MB, RedHat 8.0) it takes Eclipse 2.1-motif 9 seconds (no plugins, no open files) to start up the second time.

  • by sohp ( 22984 )
    At work they're starting to get tired of me talking about the magic ctrl+1, but to me that's the best part of Eclipse. It lets you write the code you are thinking about at the moment, then gives you help fixing up the little details and loose ends. Some of my favorites:
    • Add stubs for unimplemented methods
    • Add either a catch clause or a throws declaration to deal with an uncaught exception
    • Add unimplemented abstract methods

    A simple example: You're working on a bit of code that needs to call a method on

  • Here is the result:

    This presentation contains content that your browser may not be able to show properly. This presentation was optimized for more recent versions of Microsoft Internet Explorer.

    Cross platform IDE, Single platform documentation :-(

  • It evades me why so many Java developers lean so much towards one single program to try to work effectively and solve all their problems. I often get people in my office saying, "How can you possibly work effectively using more than one tool?" It really amazes me. If you make some programmers use more than one tool, they simply fall apart. As if Visual Basic style programming is all they can do.

    I cannot stand to have one tool that has everything built into it. I would much rather just combine two or t
  • Educational Tool (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Troy ( 3118 )
    One aspect of development tools in general that hasn't been discussed as much is the education value. In teaching programming, I don't want to become too bogged down in the tools and the equipment I use. Every class period I spend fixing Windows problems or getting the environment to work is a wasted period, because it is one less period I spend teaching the language.

    Don't get me wrong, dealing with your "tools" is a part of programming and programmers need to learn these things. However, for an entry leve
  • So, no download from me. Thanks.

"The pathology is to want control, not that you ever get it, because of course you never do." -- Gregory Bateson