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The Web Programming CD Bookshelf 77

Posted by timothy from the think-smaller dept.
honestpuck writes " I am a big fan of the written word on dead trees, but sometimes I like to have the written word where I can easily search it, or cut and paste from it. That's why I like PHP.net and why I decided to get a copy of O'Reilly's Web Programming CD Bookshelf. And I am pleased with it, though not ecstatic." Read on to see what honestpuck liked about this collection, and what drawbacks it may have for you.
The Web Programming CD Bookshelf
author [Various]
pages 540 paper, 1189 HTML
publisher O'Reilly
rating 7
reviewer Tony Williams
ISBN 0596005105
summary A good resource for PHP developers, overpriced for others

The Good

The Web Programming CD Bookshelf (WPCB) consists of a CD and a paper copy of Webmaster in a Nutshell, 3rd Edition. The CD contains an HTML version of that, as well as Dynamic HTML: The Definitive Reference, 2nd Edition, Programming PHP, PHP Cookbook, JavaScript: The Definitive Guide, 4th Edition and Web Database Applications with PHP & MySQL. There is an excellent combined index of the six volumes and a nice Java search engine, QuestAgent Pro version 4.0.9. from JObjects. According to the documentation for the engine on the CD, "It has problems running with Mozilla 0.9 and 1.0 and Netscape 7 on Mac OS 9, and occasionally on Linux"; I had no problems running it on Mac OS X in Mozilla 1.3, Safari or Internet Explorer apart from a small visual problem with another tab in Mozilla (separate windows was fine, only another tab in the same window caused a problem).

All the contents pages and indices of the volumes are of course hyperlinked. Once you are on the pages of a 'book' the top of each page has a link to the contents page, next page, previous page and the search form. The bottom of each page has next and previous buttons (with the relevant page titles), a link to the books contents page and index and below them all a row of links to the Bookshelf home and each of the books. Taken together this makes moving through the books and finding the information you want easy, for the most part.

Once you start using the collection there are some great benefits. The ability to just cut and paste the example code right out of the text you are reading cannot be underestimated.

The books themselves are the quality you expect from O'Reilly - well-written, well-edited and containing the information you need on a given subject. The one you get on paper, Webmaster in a Nutshell is a good overview of HTML, CSS, XML, JavaScript, CGI and Perl, PHP and Apache that I find a good desktop reference. The others provide a good depth and perspective on their respective subjects.

The Bad

Obviously a great deal of the work of converting the books to HTML must be done by automated software, and sometimes you wish a little more had hand-work had been done. For example, Dynamic HTML: The Definitive Reference has an alphabetical list of all HTML and XHTML tags and their attributes -- as one page of 23,000 lines of HTML. The only way into this mammoth list is via the book index, there is no quick list of tags with links on a separate page or other fast way.

My other complaint about that content is that the selection of books is PHP heavy. If you are involved in using PHP to build websites this volume would be a great help; others may feel they would have been better served by a collection that dropped at least one of the PHP books in favour of, perhaps, The Perl Cookbook. Webmaster in a Nutshell is not as useful in this collection as you might think, some of what it contains is covered by other volumes in the set. That's not to say that it isn't an excellent book and a good choice as the one that comes in paper with the CD, just that once again I'm not sure it really needed to be in the collection.

That brings me to my final complaint, cost. Sure, 6 books for $130 U.S. seems like a bargain, but unless you are interested in all 6 books (which means principally developing for the web in PHP) it starts to be less of a bargain. If you think of it as more expensive than a six-month subscription to O'Reilly's online book service, Safari (which allows you ten books, changeable when you want) then this is less than a bargain.

Conclusion

If you are developing for PHP then this might be a good resource at a fair price; you'll find it almost indispensable and (unlike Safari) you can use it when you're offline. If you develop in some other environment, it is an overpriced way of getting a few books as electronic text. If you develop for the web in Perl, then have a serious look at The Perl CD Bookshelf instead, or perhaps consider a Safari subscription.

You can purchase The Web Programming CD Bookshelf from bn.com. Slashdot welcomes readers' book reviews -- to see your own review here, read the book review guidelines, then visit the submission page.
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The Web Programming CD Bookshelf More

The Web Programming CD Bookshelf

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  • Something missing (Score:5, Funny)

    by jdavidb ( 449077 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:10PM (#6561908) Homepage Journal

    What, no "ugly"?

  • one page of 23,000 lines of HTML

    Just like any /. "discussion" on Microsoft's business practices.

  • Cheaper at Amazon (Score:4, Informative)

    by aharbick ( 41167 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:16PM (#6561988)
    You can get it for $90.97 at Amazon [amazon.com]

  • An alternative book (Score:3, Informative)

    by Sir Haxalot ( 693401 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:16PM (#6561990)
    here [amazon.co.uk].

  • It's a bit of a shame with some of these books. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by James A. A. Joyce ( 681634 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:17PM (#6562008) Journal
    I like PHP as much as the next person, but I do think it a bit unwise for so many Web services, Web coding and database/SSL books to rely on PHP. There's no major flaws with the language, per se, but I think that it would be better if there were more diversity amongst these books, particularly as PHP development moves so quickly that a few of them are even out of date by the time they are published. What's wrong with a little Python now and then?

    • Re:It's a bit of a shame with some of these books. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by sglider ( 648795 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @03:06PM (#6562728) Homepage Journal
      What's wrong with Python? Nothing at all. However, its far easier to code websites with PHP than Python, given that just 2 weeks after putting my hands on the language, I have a fully function website waiting to be launched, complete with MySQL/PHP backend, sporting many different types of search/user preference functions. I'm not an experience programmer by any means, but when a language is easy to learn and very functional, not to mention quite portable, it should be advertised more. Python lacks any sort of devoted following by mainstream programmers, who would rather use Perl/CGI, or PHP for web programming, due to both lending themselves to years of proven use. Your objection is simply based on you liking Python more, while there's no clear indication of why its better than PHP for web programming.
      • Forget about PHP and Python, you need to learn about Perl...

        Dont you know you're supposed to suffer for weeks learning an obscure, undocumented programming language, then write unmaintainable poorly commented code, and then brag how you are a 733T HAXOR to all your misfit pals?

        Come on, using the right tool for the right job isn't the slashdot way... Get with the program... :-)
      • its far easier to code websites with PHP than Python

        I guess you are unaware about Zope [zope.org].

        Do you know that there PHP projects, which authors are re-writing them to Zope? Check NeoPortal [zope.org] as an example.

  • online is good (Score:2, Interesting)

    by jason.hall ( 640247 )
    I put a web bookshelf similar to this up on a (password protected, of course) page on my site. This is extremely handy when I'm helping some friend set up a php page, or from work. Very handy to have several books just a web browser away.
    • Just curious, which books do you have up?

      Most of what I need is from the php web site, mysql web site, or perldoc.

      • I just realized I mis-spoke - I had PHP on my mind from the story. I actually have the Perl bookshelf, of whick I primarily use Programming Perl and Perl Cookbook (the others are good too: Perl in a Nutshell, Advanced Perl Programming and Perl for System Administrators). About $55 from amazon.com and well worth it!
      • Have you seen this [adderpit.com]? No PHP but a bunch on perl and mysql.
  • So, you're saying that they made sure Safari would run well in Safari?

    Don't these marketing people at least learn to pick better product names?
    • O'Reilly's Safari is a logical name, since their gimmick is animals on the cover of tech books. Zoo would have also been logical.

      Mac OS X has used jungle cat names for release versions -- Panther, Jaguar, etc., so Safari (browser) fits in with the jungle theme. However, none of there other software is based on the jungle them (iLife, iTunes, iChat, KeyNote, ProjectBuilder, etc), so they probably should have used iExplorer or such.

      • iMovie, iTunes, iChat...

        It should have been either iBrowser, or iWeb. Go along with the theme of i+(whatever the program does/processes).

        You're right, Zoo would have been more logical, or maybe Kennel. A safari is a trip into the jungle to see things, but a Zoo or Kennel is a collection of animals, which better captures the gimmick.

    • Works well, since when? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by arth1 ( 260657 )
      Safari books may work well in Safari, but it doesn't work well on Any Browser(tm). At least when I received a Safari subscription as a winter holidays gift (a very thoughtful gift!), I couldn't use the site because a) it didn't work correctly with Mozilla due to javascript and frame/iframe differences, and more important b) it didn't work correctly on systems with larger fonts than Windows "small" -- the borders would overwrite or obscure text, and indexes were overlaying that again. Completely unreadable
      • I've been using it for about a month and a half, with both Mozilla and MSIE, and I haven't seen any of the problems you've mentioned....
      • I think they've fixed those (and other) problems...

        I'm running XP at 1600x1200 on a 19" monitor, with system fonts enlarged, and using 20 points default fonts in Mozilla, and Safari works fine now.

        They also initially had some major problems with unreadable gray text in some sections of some books, but I haven't seen any more of that lately either.

        They give out free trials of the business version if you give them the email addresses of yourself and 4 other people in your workgroup. No credit card needed.

  • Safari limits (Score:5, Informative)

    by andy@petdance.com ( 114827 ) <andy@petdance.com> on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:47PM (#6562489) Homepage
    Safari (which allows you ten books, changeable when you want)

    Safari's books aren't changeable "when you want." Each title must sit on your bookshelf for 30 days. Otherwise, you could have a single book slot and swap in and out all you wanted.

    The 10-book limit had me concerned at first, but it hasn't turned out to be a problem in reality.

    • Re:Safari limits (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Remember that Safari bookshelves are built with "slots", not books per se as a book can take up 0.5, 1, 2 or even 3 slots.

      Also, you can also have 5, 20 and 30-slot bookshelves.

  • PHP (Score:3, Informative)

    by Solokron ( 198043 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:47PM (#6562496) Homepage
    I have found the PHP Bible by Converse & Park from Wiley to be a wonderful resource as well for PHP needs.

  • Quanta & Google (Score:4, Informative)

    by Perl-Pusher ( 555592 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @02:55PM (#6562604)
    I haven't really needed a programming reference since quanta has JavaScript, PHP, HTML and CSS references built in. My java IDE has an excellent tutorial on servlets linked online, along with the java references. Between that and Google I haven't found a need for books, especially on CD.

  • Java search engine (Score:2, Insightful)

    by dood ( 11062 )
    Interesting they decided to bundle that search engine - I'm surprised they didn't go with Lucene (http://jakarta.apache.org/lucene/). It's open source, 100% Java, fast, and fully featured.

  • O'Reilly and their upgrade policy (Score:3, Informative)

    by yroJJory ( 559141 ) <me@NOspam.jory.org> on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @03:32PM (#6563060) Homepage
    Personally, this Bookshelf CD was a source of contention between me and O'Reilly. I already own 2 of the 6 books in this collection in dead tree format and wanted to have those two books on my hard drive, so I could travel with my programming references.

    So, I called O'Reilly and inquired about an upgrade discount. The woman I spoke with was friendly and really tried her best, but all they would offer me was a 30% off flat retail. Seeing as how I've bought a dozen O'Reilly books, including the $90 I already spent for 2 books I simply wanted in HTML format, I was willing to spend around $60.

    For $90, I could buy the collection brand new from Amazon without having ever spent a penny on O'Reilly's books.

    I told them "no thanks" and ended up finding someone in the Amazon Marketplace who sold me the shrinkwrapped product for $55.

    I understand that O'Reilly has to sell books to stay in business but one would hope they'd treat repeat customers better.

    All-in-all, I'm totally satisfied with the Programming Bookshelf. Couple it with the Design Bookshelf and the Linux Bookshelf and you've got all the references you'll probably need for Web Applications programming on the road.

    Now, if Osbourne would just release a PDF version of Eric Meyer's "CSS 2.0 Programmer's Reference".
    • I dunno, 30% off retail seems like they were definitely trying.
    • For $90, I could buy the collection brand new from Amazon without having ever spent a penny on O'Reilly's books.

      Sounds like you would be spending money on O'Reilly's books, then... just through a retail outlet, not direct.

      Don't get me wrong, I've always found this amusing, but it seems to frequently happen - that the "direct" approach is more expensive than other methods. I just don't get why you seem to be upset at O'Reilly, though. Don't like their price, find a price you do like, or don't buy the pr
      • Believe me, I won't stop buying O'Reilly products as a result, nor am I upset with them. I just had hopes they'd treat me better than that.

        Yes, 30% off is a pretty good deal, but when was the last time you paid MSRP on computer gear or a car? There are always ridiculous prices and then there are street prices. Obviously, they want only to sell their products at MSRP and the discount brings them to street prices.

        It was a nice effort, but I still felt like they could have done more for me.
    • "Seeing as how I've bought a dozen O'Reilly books" Wow, a dozen? Really? I've got a 108 O'Reilly books that I can see from my desk right now...
    • I wonder if "fair use" legal theory would give you the right to copy someone else's electronic versions of the books you own.

  • Very useful (Score:5, Informative)

    by qslack ( 239825 ) * <qslackNO@SPAMpobox.com> on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @03:35PM (#6563101) Homepage Journal
    I bought a lot of the O'Reilly CD bookshelves and I find them indispensible.

    I burned them all onto one giant DVD along with every RFC, MySQL docs, Perl docs, PHP docs, PostgreSQL docs, etc. I use this all the time when I am coding.

    I also have a few Project Gutenberg e-books on the DVD for pleasure reading on vacation.

    I highly recommend everyone to make their own "resource CD"--the time you spend making it will pale in comparison to the time you save by having all of the reference material you need available easily.

    I can post some more tips for making a resource CD if anyone has any questions. Also, I wish I could take credit for the idea, but I got it from a friend.

    70 Used Computer Books For Sale [qslack.com]

    • I agree... I took the 3 bookshelves I have (Perl, linux web server, unix) and made a quickie index page w/the images from the respective menus, and burned 'em all on CD.

      With, of course, Komodo, the PDK, and various webby tools.
  • Recently I had to figure out Bind and then I wanted to get down on this whole "blog" scene. I was able to read both Oreilly books for only $10.

    When it comes to Oreilly stuff, noting beats safari.

  • Perl for Web Site Management (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jbc ( 3796 ) on Tuesday July 29, 2003 @03:59PM (#6563431) Homepage
    Another O'Reilly title that might arguably have been suitable for inclusion, but that wasn't, is the one I wrote, Perl for Web Site Management [elanus.net].

    Sigh. If a web programming book gets written in a forest, and no one actually reads it, did it really get written?

    Actually, I did write part of chapter eight sitting under some trees during a hike in the Inyo National Forest. That was fun, at least.

    • I haven't read your book straight through, but I did spend quite a bit of time in the store skimming and debating on whether to get it, and have recommended it to others. I agree wholeheartedly that it would have been perfect for this CD Bookshelf -- as the reviewer said, a Perl title would diversify it a bit from the PHP/JavaScript-specific stuff, plus your book seemed to deal more with scripting the tedious day-to-day tasks in web development rather than just how to generate a database-driven web applica

    • Cheer up, mate. I thought your book was pretty good (probably the best introduction to Perl for inexperienced coders that I've come across) and I know at least two people who have found it helpful.

      Offering my ill-informed 0.02 (hey, it's Slashdot), maybe it's not doing well as you would have liked because Perl is a bit over-represented in the O'Reilly lineup. Also, your book is aimed at new coders but there's nothing to suggest that in the title (e.g. 'Learning', 'Introducing').

      It's a shame, because y

  • Web security documentation (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Documentation library [cgisecurity.com]
    Web services [cgisecurity.com]
    .NET [cgisecurity.com]
    Database and sql injection [cgisecurity.com]
  • I saw an O'Reilly CD Bookshelf (networking, I think) in the Borders remainder bin last week, for $5.

    The same Borders has cut its computer section by about two-thirds since 2001.

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