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Port Mozilla, Collect $3696 358

An anonymous reader writes "The goal of the AmiZilla effort is to raise such an obscene/huge amount of money to give away to the first programmer/team that can port Mozilla to Amiga that Amiga programmers will be falling over themselves getting this application coded in record time. The booty currently stands at $3696. Parties interested in making some extra cash to pay off student loans/go on a wild bender can find more infomation here."
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Port Mozilla, Collect $3696

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  • Than coded fast. Code that is cranked out in record time ususally isn't efficient or stable. How do you verify that the winning code contains no major bugs?
  • Obscene? (Score:2, Funny)

    by emo boy ( 586277 )
    Is $3676 an obscene amount of money now?
  • Great Idea (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Jedi1USA ( 145452 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @08:15AM (#6169692)
    Nothing like cold hard cash to get someones attention. This isn't "pay off the mortgage" kind of money, but better than a poke in the eye with a stick.

    • how Microsoft employees feel. Get the job done quick, you're commended for your speed, it can be improved on later, and you get good money. Tell me you wouldn't want a job like that!
  • by Speare ( 84249 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @08:16AM (#6169708) Homepage Journal

    If the port should take four man-weeks to do, that works out to about $23 dollars per hour. Somehow I think they're going to need to collect more bounty before developers would "fall all over themselves" for the task.

    That said, if I had extra cash, I'd offer bounties for small programming tasks. My home life doesn't afford enough hacking time to do all of the ideas I write down, and I would love to parcel them out for a hobby-sized bounty to students or other junior coders who also want to use it as a learning opportunity.

    • by CrazyJim0 ( 324487 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @08:28AM (#6169797)
      I just graduated CMU with a degree in CS, I'd take a $10 an hour job if I could find one.

      The problem with this thing is that second place gets mo money. So if you coded for 150 hours and someone else finishes, then you got paid 0$/hr. To me, this is unacceptable because I always end up getting shafted like that.
      • Have you:

        - Visited
        - Checked all the companies at
        - Checked with the folks you did your internship with, they may not be hiring, but may know somebody who is. If you didn't do computer work during the summer, getting a job will be a little harder.

        And that's if you want to stay local. Good Luck!
        • Thanks for the advice, I've sent out 1000's of resumes, but never got anything past a "Recieved your resume" I've never had an internship or anything. Its wierd too because I am qualified, just never got any chances.

          I have ideas for stuff that'd been successful in the past:
 / resume/ ideas.html

          I do work on lots of external projects. I'm working on a MMORPG right now some info can be found at:
 dex2. html
          • if you've never done internships or worked in the field, your chances of getting a descent job at this point are pretty slim. I don't even have my degree and lived in a small town for most of my career life, but have easily landed some pretty good jobs. You need to know where to look. Your best bet would have been to check out your University's career center and looked into a co-op/internship. It is the equivalent of putting your foot in the proverbial door of the IT world.
      • I have no idea of where you live but if you have a degree in CS from CMU and can not find a job that will pay a job that pays $10 an hour you got to move. I pay support techs that answer the phone $10 after they have been her for 3 months.
      • I just graduated CMU with a degree in CS, I'd take a $10 an hour job if I could find one.

        I'm not sure how much you've actually looked but it's not that hard to find a job with our qualifications. I also graduated from CMU last year and every single one of my CS friends were able to find a job (some weren't able to find it immediately but all within a 3-6 month timeframe). You just have to be a little more proactive in the job hunt. Hang in there.
      • Stream is still hiring for 10$/hr (well no not really, but it makes a good joke anyhow)
      • I just graduated CMU with a degree in CS, I'd take a $10 an hour job if I could find one.

        Then go be a night manager at Taco Bell. Contrary to what many folks might tell you, there are CS jobs out there that pay more than $dick.99/hour. If you've got a degree in CS from Carnegie Mellon, you're either not looking hard enough for work or you're living in the wrong part of the country. Look harder or move.

        Also, regarding the metric the parent post threw out, there's absolutely no way anyone could port Moz
      • I'd take a $10 an hour job if I could find one.

        If you coded for 150 hours and someone else finishes, then you got paid 0$/hr. To me, this is unacceptable because I always end up getting shafted like that.

        Maybe these two things are linked. Why would anyone want to pay you $10/hour when other people can do it faster than you?
    • that works out to about $23 dollars per hour. Somehow I think they're going to need to collect more bounty before developers would "fall all over themselves" for the task

      $23 dollars per hour is a lot to someone who is currently unemployed, or doesn't have the time to work because they are studying. Given that there are a lot of people who do this kind of thing without any optimism about financial reward, this probably will get quite a good response.

    • I'm guessing that this(Google Answers)) [] might be a source of labor that would satisfy your desires.
  • My Mail to Bill. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @08:20AM (#6169738)
    I have contacted Bill already about this some weeks ago and suggested that it may be better to port either Webcore or GRE to Amiga. Here an excerpt of my email. I think it's quite illusionary requesting a port of Mozilla to Amiga specially now where the entire roadmap of Mozilla changes. Read on.



    I don't know if you are the person responsible for the

    I would like to contact you because I think there are better ways to help the Amiga getting a good Webbrowser. There was a german Article about this on which I have read and replied to. /A N-2003-05-00184-DE.html

    Message 18 and 21. Sorry It's written in german Language so you may need to translate it using babelfish. I think you will understand it and the
    contents of it.

    But here a little summary.

    I used to be a member of the Amiga community from 1984 - 1996 and left for Linux. I am following the Mozilla development process for various years now, contributed to it with bugreports and some minor patches, then went over to support the GALEON people.

    My personal opinion is that porting Mozilla is a wrong way to go because of complexity and the required maintainership.

    The mozilla approach was always criticised by many people of the open source community because of it's bloat. e.g. it's an entire development
    plattform (basically a whole os and widgetset) that was also the reason why browser such as galeon, skipstone, epiphany or k-melon showed up,
    they all used the embedded mozilla component and used their native window which fits pleasingly into the environment what many people simply wanted was a fast webbrowser which either fits into their desktop environment either GNOME or KDE.

    Over the time the SAFARI people showed up and they have decided to take the KHTML component from KDE (supports DOM, CSS1 and CSS2, HTML4, JS,
    SSL and so on), they ripped the library out of KDE, wrote a wrapper around it and called it webcore: re /

    the kde people then got told about this after safari got released and the safari and kde people are now working on one unified component e.g.
    2 teams are working on one library, they are now up to separate the backend from the engine so you can simply take the library and have it used on whatever plattform you like. The link above shows you an old version of the webcore, it's not the same as they are using now.

    During the time Safarit was announced the Mozilla people got heavily pissed off and decided to change their entire roadmap because they
    finally realized that XUL (their widgetset) and their way of doing things wasn't attractive to the public thus their new roadmap is to create a separate suite the email client and then the webclient (in the means of phoenix (firebird)). they are also working now to separate the
    frontend from the backend and thus they work on the GRE component called Gecko Runtime Environment which offers alternative browser to use a
    light library instead the requirement to install the whole mozilla stuff. ml


    The point is, that I think it would be better to work together with one of these two teams either the KHTML team or the GRE team and have these
    libraries ported to the Amiga rather than porting the entire mozilla project. The problems with Mozilla port could be various. On the one hand is that you need to deal with the Maintainers of mozilla. A lot of individual people that you need to explain why you want to have Amiga support in it and then the various complex problems that may show up. I know from various developers who tried to port Mozilla to GTK2+ plattform that this caused an neverending flame wether they go Pango (for fontrendering, language and AA) o
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Yeah and sorry for my bad english and bad explaination.

      A last note. I was talking about GRE (Mozilla Gecko) and KHTML (Safari Koqnueror) libraries all the time.

      These are full rendering components available as libraries. See it as an object. You write a native Amiga Window, add a toolbar, add a bookmarks system and there where you want to see the rendering stuff, you simply put the HTML rendering object inside. It's like putting a big pushbutton in the middle of the window (adding a gadget to your window).
    • There is no such thing as the GRE at the build level anyway, since you must build the entire Mozilla first before running the script that cherry picks the subset of files that represent the GRE. If Mozilla doesn't build, you have no GRE.

      So it is better to just forget about there being a GRE at all to begin with. Just port Mozilla and the GRE will fall out of it, but the reverse is not true.

  • Simple. (Score:2, Funny)

    by tomstdenis ( 446163 )
    1. Make an x86 emulator.
    2. Boot linux.
    3. Install Moz.


    Heck I'd pay 3639$ to see Moz ported to my Gameboy Color [the Z80 one] that in itself would be a feat!

    • I had a PC emulator for my Amiga 500. It clocked at a breathtaking 0.1 Mhz!

      You could literally type something on the command prompt and wait a minute for the characters to agonizingly appear one at a time on the screen. Other than its excrutiating speed it was useful for transferring files and whatnot but it fast it was not.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @08:24AM (#6169782)
    and then fell to the floor laughing uncontrolable because i found what i was looking for (its in the FAQ):

    Q: What will be the requirements and the minimum spec for the Amiga version.

    A: Well that will depend a lot on the programming team that tackles the port and their skillset but the spec I would like to see is Amiga OS 3.9 and above and/or WinUAE/Amiga Forever/Amithlon/AROS/MorphOS. 68030+ CPU, faster the better, 24 bit Graphics card, 32MB of RAM. I would also like the coders to try hard to make it work with AGA.

    get it ! get it ! they are talking about the original amiga series, not the new one with the 600mhz PPC !
    mozilla isnt even running lag free on my dual P3 with 512mb ram omg omg this is so over the top :DD

    • by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @09:43AM (#6170356) Homepage
      mozilla isnt even running lag free on my dual P3 with 512mb ram omg omg this is so over the top :DD

      wow what did you do wrong?

      My old P-II SMP box runs Moz damn fast... pretty much lag free.

      But then I have a SCSI U160 12 disk Raid array on that box.. but no processor setup on this planet even a 8 processor P-4 90ghz box with "Future-seeum(TM) technology" can affect load speed off of a rotating magnetic storage device... my Hard drives are simply 10 times faster than anything you have.

      I'd look at your low end IDE drives and bus. you either need to set something using hdparam in linux or your hardware has some real problems.

      dont blame software load time on your processors, blame it on the real bottlenecks in your system.

      • he probably has an nvidia card and hasn't gotten the correct drivers for it (assuming we're talking linux). When I did a fresh install of Mandrake, I forgot to install the driver and was met with some pretty slow action across the board.
  • Booty?! (Score:2, Funny)

    by lawpoop ( 604919 )
    You mean, I can finally get *gulp* booty for programming?!
    • booÂty 1
      n. pl. booÂties

      1. Plunder taken from an enemy in time of war.
      2. Goods or property seized by force or piracy.
      3. A valuable prize, award, or gain.
  • Working very hard on the soon to be released AmiZilla Mascot, she is very sexy

    I'm almost temped to donate 10K to see just what sort of wild bender someone who finds a green lizard sexy would actually go on.
  • by WwWonka ( 545303 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @08:26AM (#6169789)
    $3676? Hmmm....

    $40 to build a shocking Xbox controller.
    $100 to buy a Dremel Powertool to explode Steve Miller Cds to infinity
    $300 emergeny room visit to have a RN look at your electrical burns on your hands and to pull CD shards out of your ass.
    $3236 To start litigation against /. for insipring your creative genius to aforementioned experiments.

  • Arguments... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Psiren ( 6145 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @08:29AM (#6169802)
    No doubt this will end in the usual arguments about who did what and when. It always does when money is involved. Humans are just too greedy.
    • I agree, and think thats one of the things GAIM did correctly. From their faq:

      Does AOL's attempts at blocking Trillian affect Gaim?


      Is Gaim affected by the vulnerability found in Windows AIM or Yahoo Instant Messenger clients?


      Can I IM you guys?

      Sure! Look at the Contact Information page!

      Can I give you money/hardware/other expensive things that can be hocked for cash what with you all being students/full-time-workers and helping to produce this wonderful software instead of studying/sleeping?

  • This is more then the average kid makes all year. The 12-16 year old computer literate kids will be all over this. That is if they had a machine to work on. Hope that machine cost considerable less than 4K$

  • first place:
    > Port Mozilla,Collect $3696

    second place:
    go directly to /dev/null
    do not pass go
    do not collect $3696
  • I would guess the most straightforward way of porting to the Amiga would be via some X11 port on that platform and reuse most of the X11/GTK widgets. Treat the Amiga as a weird Unix variant, use gcc, gmake and as many GNU tools as are required to make things easy on yourself.

    You still have the NSPR and Makefile system, and some assembly used by XPCOM to contend with, but the length task of writing widgets and gfx classes from scratch would go away.

  • Port Mozilla to Linux (Linux without SCOde) --> Show code to SCO --> Collect $1,000,000. SCO sues Mozilla, collects $1,000,000,000 from AOL!

  • One of the sponsors in their list gave 5 bucks and a link back to his site; []. Go check out his Pound-O-Meter. I love an optimist, but not enough to give him money. :-)
  • by jetsetscoot ( 578227 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @08:48AM (#6169961)
    Or make even more people happy - somebody please port Firebird/Phoenix to Mac OS9. There are a ton of us who have not made the jump to OS X, and I for one have gotten to really like Phoenix on my work pc. The last Mozilla port to the old mac is 1.2.1 from last December. I feel abandoned.


    -I can't hear the forest now for all the falling trees
    • Seconded, we never got a bug free version of Mozilla, the last one still has the debilitating problem that when you collapse the front window you lose the inability to type anything, in any program at all, and we never got the spam filtering.

      If only a few of those people would stop porting linux to hairdryers, making tcp/ip stacks made out of christmas tree lights and casemodding PCs into happy meal toys, the open source movement could really get a strong foothold in the Mac market :-/

      If there was a port
  • What a cool version of the game that would make, eh?
  • Righto (Score:5, Interesting)

    by zakezuke ( 229119 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @08:52AM (#6169991)
    It's good to see someone interested in mozilla for Amiga, something that could be considered to be a standard up to date web browser.

    I honestly don't know what I used on the amiga in ages past, I just remember I made the mistake of accepting some 2.x roms and could no longer do that software load of 3.x [exact version number I can not remember presently]

    From what I remember, even if you had AGA or 3rd party 24 bit graphics, in my case it was a retna (sp) card, your web browsing experence was pretty limited due to the fact that the stock amiga graphics were at best 16/32/64 colors. I don't honestly remember the details, it's not like you couldn't get 4096 colors, just apparently not for things like gif or jpeg files.

    Which brings another point all together, pre 68030 based machines are not really the best at web browsing unless you have a math-co. Gifs are not so bad, jpegs however are pretty slugish. This is not to say that modern amiga users don't have accelerators... this is to say such a product would only be useful to those people.

    Perhaps someone wiser then I could remember the particulars, I really couldn't be bothered being nickle and dimed on my amiga, so I just went with lynx and got frustrated and went to the PC.

    So issues I see with this project

    1. Would browsing in 8bit color or above graphics require a specific rom set?

    2. How ever are you going to find a math-co for jpeg decoding.

    This is actually comming from a person who was and still is to an extent a big amiga fan. Part of the reason I had to abandon it was the simple fact that even web browsers that were made for the amiga required money from me to display properly.

    • Re:Righto (Score:4, Insightful)

      by AMiGR ( 628789 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @09:02AM (#6170064)
      Actually that is a long forgotten past, nowadays,
      most users have PPC accelerators, REAL graphic cards (even if they are old, like the Voodoo3),
      >64Mbs of RAM or even better, a new PowerPC
      motherboard like the Pegasos (running MorphOS,
      if you want AmigaOS compatability), with modern
      hardware like the Radeon series, etc.
      • Most users is a relative term. Those still active with Amiga are likely to have these things. Other people, many whom I know personaly, still keep their amiga around just for its game library, pretty much kept it stock. No need for accelerator just to run Pirates after all.

        I pose these issues because there are alot of people like my self who still have an amiga. Such a project like getting a modern web browser to work on it would be spiffy.

        In my case, I own an amiga 2000... I have like 2.x roms and a
    • Re:Righto (Score:2, Informative)

      by amigabill ( 146897 )
      >1. Would browsing in 8bit color or above graphics require a specific rom set?

      No, just a graphics card supported by either the Picasso96 or CynerGraphX APIs. Such cards can display 24bit screens quite easily. I myself run my Amiga4000T in 800x600x24bit. 1024x768 starts to get too small things for my poor eyes to cope with... I also have an Amiga3000 with a Voodoo3 card and also an ATI Radeon that I am helping develop drivers for, currently at beta level and about to go out for public beta testing. The s
      • But the Retnina card did support AGA emulation, but from what I understood all the web browsers that existed for the amiga required rom revision 3.x or above. I'd have to really search back and figure out the issue, but dispite the fact that i had a 24bit graphics card, dispite the fact that I could emulate AGA pretty well, I was stuck with viewing jpegs with 1st generation amiga graphics.

        I really don't remember what the issue was, as I knew other people who owned the retina graphics card who were above t
    • Re:Righto (Score:3, Informative)

      by johannesg ( 664142 )
      Back then I was using AWeb, in 24-bit color, using a Picasso IV graphics card. There were never any issues with images being dithered or anything - it just worked in 24-bits.

      Most of the graphics cards require at least OS 3.0. I'd guess that most (both? ;-) ) remaining Amiga users are at least using that version.

      As for JPEG decoding, that's a trivial exercise: just use the excellent datatypes system and load any image format as if it were native. There are plenty JPEG datatypes (PPC, 68060, no math copro

      • Ahhhhh! This is where I need a memory refresher.

        In order to run Amiga os 3, don't you need the corisponding roms? My memory could be incorrect on this issue. I remember I traded my 1.3 roms for some 2.x roms, but I lost the ability to run amiga os 3.0, which was nessicary to run Aweb as well as Voyager. This is assuming i'm remembering correctly. There was a hack to do a software load of the 3.x roms that didn't work at all under the 2.x roms I had.

        If someone would be so kind as to refresh my memory.
  • by mikecheng ( 3359 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @08:52AM (#6169995) Homepage Journal
    both amiga programmers will be fighting hard to get the cash.

    I used to use the GCC tools on the amiga (ADE - or whatever it turned into). But then that slowly went stagnant - and it was 10x faster to cross-compile stuff on the FreeBSD/Pentium166 than to wait for the A3000/'030.

    When Amiga/PPC hardware started appearing, I was keen to do some portage of unix-ish type stuff - except the PPC dev toolchain was so woeful it made me want to cry.

    • When Amiga/PPC hardware started appearing, I was keen to do some portage of unix-ish type stuff - except the PPC dev toolchain was so woeful it made me want to cry.

      I remember that. I bought a PPC board with the specific intention to do some cool ports, but it just couldn't be done. The PPC stuff just never worked, and it was plain impossible to find out what was broken: the hardware itself, the communication software, the PPC kernel, the PPC compiler, ... And it wasn't just my own software: there has not

  • I'm all for porting and getting things running on obscure platforms, but why is getting Mozilla on the Amiga the one that people put up the cash prizes for? Aren't there development projects more worthy of a financial incentive than getting a browser to run on hopelessly-outdated hardware, no matter how rabid the geek-niche userbase?

    It's fun and all, but couldn't that money have been better spent on rewarding developers to make something more likely to be useful? I'm sure the crowd here can come up wit

    • Re:What's the point? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by nickos ( 91443 )
      ...but why is getting Mozilla on the Amiga the one that people put up the cash prizes for?

      Because the Amiga community, despite everything they've gone through still has a passion for their platform. If (not likely admittedly) Microsoft went bust tommorrow, do you think there would be die hard users doing this sort of thing for the Windows platform 10 years later?

      This passion speaks volumes about the qualities inherent in the Amiga archiecture and OS.
    • I know it is hard to understand these days, but way back when the Amiga roamed the Earth, the customer asked developers for something, developers created said product, and were paid for their efforts.

      Thankfully, The Company (not Kompany) came along and changed all that. Now the developer tells the customer what they want and either gets paid a lot, or nothing at all. It is much easier for the developer now.

      More power to these guys. If more projects worked for donations, we might get a finished GUI app
  • I've heard it's easier to port khtml instead of Mozilla. The relative ease that the Apple and the Aetheos guys ported it perhaps shows this.
    • by BZ ( 40346 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @12:20PM (#6172252)
      khtml is a rendering engine. Mozilla is an application. Porting gecko (the khtml equivalent in Mozilla) and porting kthml are about equally difficult. Possibly easier for gecko, which is designed from the ground up to be easily portable.

      If you want to compare porting Mozilla to something, you'd have to compare it to porting all of the KDE widget set _plus_ khtml.
  • by Mike Bouma ( 85252 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @09:29AM (#6170251) Homepage
    There seems to be some confusion with regard to which OSes/solutions this effort is directed at. Currently there are 4 main 68k Amiga compatible solutions DiscreetFX would like to see supported. For two first one listed below PPC native versions would be preferable:

    1) AmigaOS4

    This is the official new AmigaOS developed for classic Amigas upgraded with PPC accelerators and new AmigaOne computers which are being sold with G3 and G4 processors.

    Some of the latest but still unfinished screenshots of AmigaOS4: ryid=560 []
    AmigaOne motherboards can already be bought in combination with Linux at the following dealers (AmigaOS4 will be delivered for free as soon as it is finished): []

    With MOL MacOS X can also already be used with this system (as well as with the Peg below): []

    2) MorphOS

    Its ABOX environment is a re-implementation of version 3.1 of the Amiga operating system. The re-implemted Exec kernel is hosted on top of a Quark microkernel. The OS is fast and responsive and currently runs with G3 Pegasos motherboards. Interested people will have to wait for the Pegasos II, which is planned for release in September. An interesting review can be found at OSNews: []

    3) AROS

    An open source project intended as a multi-platform re-implementation of version 3.1 of the Amiga operating system. Most of the development takes place on x86 computers. Much of the source code was used for MorphOS. []

    4) UAE, Amithlon and other 68 AmigaOS emulators

    AmigaOS XL: []
    Amiga Forever: []
  • The goal of the AmiZilla effort is to raise such an obscene/huge amount of money to give away to the first programmer/team that can port Mozilla to Amiga that Amiga programmers will be falling over themselves getting this application coded in record time. The booty currently stands at $3696.

    Hey, that's great. The goal is to raise an obscene/huge amount of money, but they currently have a little over $3500? I think they would need at least $10k for it to be considered big, and more than that to be obsce

  • I'll pay $17 for the first person to port Mozilla to the Commodore 64. Bonus of $3 if you don't require a double-notched floppy.
  • by Anita Coney ( 648748 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @09:56AM (#6170442) Homepage
    I ported the Amiga OS to run on the Dreamcast?
  • by Unominous Coward ( 651680 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @09:58AM (#6170453)
    Don't you have to pass Go first?
  • by Fizzlewhiff ( 256410 ) <`jeffshannon' `at' `'> on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @09:59AM (#6170461) Homepage
    To make an AmigaOS skin and put that on your Mozilla running in Linux? I would agree that it would be fun to have a working copy of Mozilla to run in UAE to show my friends but I honestly don't see any real world use. Even in AmigaOS4 is finished, it isn't going to revive the Amiga to its 1980's glory days. The Mac and the PC have long taken over the reigns that the Amiga once held in sound and graphics. I'd much rather see the efforts go into a more modern and existing OS like Linux or even Mac OS X.
  • The actual amount is $3696.052

  • Huh? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Wakko Warner ( 324 ) * on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @12:31PM (#6172387) Homepage Journal
    The two Amiga users left will have to split the money (and learn how to program), but $1800 or so is still quite a chunk of change. If this were 1985, they'd be able to buy a new Amiga with that kind of cash!

    - A.P.
  • by nfotxn ( 519715 ) on Wednesday June 11, 2003 @01:11PM (#6172850) Journal
    Eww, that furry cartoon holding the amiga beachball is kinda creeping me out.
  • The computing world hasn't stood still since 1994 when Commodore went bust - so why do so many non/ex-Amiga owners think that the Amiga has also?

    Most of our members have powerful Amiga setups ( ) enough power to run Mozilla. Myself I'm typing this on my Broadband enabled Amiga with 256Mb RAM and 330GB Hard disk. We "poor old" Amiga owners have USB 2.0, 3D Graphics cards, 5.1 Digital Sound cards, DVD-ROMs and CD-ReWriters. So as you can see the Amiga market isn't all

I program, therefore I am.