Show Me The Money - Microsoft Money Vs. Quicken 222
prostoalex writes "The weblog entry 'Show me the money' is an interesting tale of Microsoft Money from a developer who now manages software development in the Tablet PC group at Microsoft. Having worked before with Money, which was assigned a task of beating Quicken, Philip describes the disasters that happen when marketing and advertising people rule the software development: 'Money's success or failure was judged using the same metrics as MSN's websites. Metrics like minutes viewed per month. Like ad revenue. Like click-through. Stickiness. I am not making this up.'"
Money software (Score:5, Insightful)
The biggest thing I have found useful is online bill pay.
Yay
Re:Money software (Score:2, Insightful)
Real "support" is zero. (Score:2, Funny)
Last time I checked, no banks "supported" either Quicken or Money. If you accidentally import the bank data twice, both packages will happily post it twice, and you'll spend an hour removing the double posts. That's not support.
Maybe that's why few people actually use personal finance managers. PFMs are designed by people who apparently have never used them.
Re:Real "support" is zero. (Score:3, Informative)
quicken and money can now log on to the bank *for you* and download the transactions, differentiating between what it already knows and new transactions.
I use Money for account management, and I've never had the problem with duplicates that you describe.
Here's the problem. (Score:5, Interesting)
So, they go by the date of your last download. But you can override the date (in case you've deleted entries that you should not have).
So, they download everything for that date range, even if the information is ALREADY there.
I can understand doing it that way for the download, but they should also do some basic checks to see if duplicate entries exist. They don't.
In more technical terms, they are "brittle". As long as you don't make an error, they are fine. But people make mistakes.
If the banks TRULY supported those apps, they would be keyed on unique transaction numbers. The app could query the Bank's server for a list of transaction numbers associated with that account and then compare that list with the list it already had and just download any changes.
I'm not sure how long banks keep their transaction records, but if the apps were really supported, it would be possible to download all your data instead of picking a date and starting from there.
With the current level of "support", all you get is an automated method of receiving your monthly statement. You could get the same functionality by typing in your statement yourself.
Re:Here's the problem. (Score:2)
If the bank supports the older format, yes it goes by the date. However, in 1998 a new format was created that eliminates the duplicate record problem. Not all banks use the newer format.
Re:Here's the problem. (Score:2)
But both the banks and the software supports unique transaction id's. See? [ofx.net] Says so here, too. [microsoft.com] (You gotta search for "FITID" word doc.) Gnucash supports them, too. [sourceforge.net]
It's only if you use the old QIF format that you don't get unique transaction IDs. Which is, of course, why MS Money only imports OFX and doesn't export OFX. It only exports QIF. So that if you've got your data in MS Money and you try to import
But I already type it in. :( (Score:2)
"Since I enter my paycheck information (to get taxes and other deductions included), Money does recognize (it guesses and it is sometimes wrong) the duplicate entry as well as other duplicates from personal entry and then gives you the opportunity to 'accept' the bank's information (single value) or keep yours (detailed)."
It sounds like you enter all your payments and deposits by hand, the same as I do. And from your statement, it sounds like you enter mor
Re:Real "support" is zero. (Score:3, Informative)
Many banks support direct connect download and many more support indirect downloads from their website (also automated within PFMs) Among the direct support ones are Wells Fargo, BofA and Citybank, as well as credit cards like AmEx, Discover, and MBNA (they are behind a LOT of branded cards). There is a full list somewhere and it is pretty long.
I've never had any duplication issues either. Quicken (which I use) detects duplication and matches transactions when it
Re:Real "support" is zero. (Score:2)
From what I have seen, that is support. That seems to match anyone's definition of whether they support something or not. I have even seen a case where something was supported by turning off that something.
I think that "supported" really only means that it is acceptable help-desk fodder. Totally unrelated to whether or not it wo
Re:Money software (Score:5, Insightful)
Amazing how people will strive for maximum compatibility out of their phone and computers, but when it comes to managing the resource that pays for those, we don't mind what services we get.
Re:Money software (Score:5, Interesting)
And judging from the review, we aren't missing much. I pay my bills online and haven't seen the inside of a bank for several years.
UBS uses/supports quicken (Score:2)
Sorry for the possible tangent (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Sorry for the possible tangent (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but sales is different than marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
What the article was talking about was a Marketing organization that wasn't thinking straight. There is a profound difference. In this case, Marketing was out of control, not Sales. I have seen this many times. They made one of the most common mistakes that marketing organizations make, namely checklist selling against the competition. This is a no-win situation. First one product is "ahead", then the other, wake me up when you have something new to say.
In order to really make a dent in a market, you have to change the playing field, not just tweak the product. Microsoft is scary/dangerous not because they release new versions of Office occasionally, but because from time to time they do really profound things like boot everyone else out of the Office business by betting on Windows when everyone thought Windows was a non-starter. Remember when Excel used to ship with its own Windows shell, before Windows was available? No? Well, I do. I remember the difference between that early Excel and Lotus, too. Lotus had more checklist features for a long time, but Excel -- it was just plain beautiful and fun to use. Once you used it, you couldn't go back to Lotus, even if it had some bullshit statistical function that Excel didn't have (yet).
Now THAT'S product marketing -- long term perspective, vision, eye on the goal line, pick your cliche of the day.
Re:Yes, but sales is different than marketing (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Yes, but sales is different than marketing (Score:2)
How about Lotus Ami Pro? Came out prior to 1990. As for email, I don't remember when Outlook was bundled with Office, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't in 1995.
Features (Score:4, Interesting)
Depends if you need those features or not. Spreadsheets today and 15 years ago started to get used by people who never would have used the paper versions. Further they got used by people who didn't know much math. In the early-mid 1980s that wasn't the case at all. I saw lots of people using things like matrix features of Lotus, non linear curve fitting, statistical tests which reflected the actual data... 20 years ago. Books like "Lotus 1-2-3 for engineers" or "Integrating SAS with Lotus" were popular.
What Microsoft deserves credit for was cutting the cost of high end spread sheets by 90-95% over a period of a few years and thus turning it from a high end feature to something everyone had. Of course the product aiming for the people not willing to buy Lotus would in general need to be easier to use and less feature rich.
Re:Yes, but sales is different than marketing (Score:2)
Sure. And I remember when Samna Ami [zisman.ca] did the same thing for word processors -- long before Microsoft. And even though Ami Pro was a *way* better word processor than Microsoft Word, where is it now?
Not bundled with your computer, that's where -- and that is the "innovation" that Microsoft shows, and why they beat the competition. They simply leverage one strong market position into another.
Re:Yes, but sales is different than marketing (Score:2)
WYSIWYG attempts by Lotus never did really work very well.
Most spreadsheets are just a tabular presentation of some data with maybe a wee bit of calculation, and most of that calculation is simulating a 10-key adding machine.
You're very right. Marketing and Sales are very different creatures and quite often have nothing to do with ea
Re:Sorry for the possible tangent (Score:3, Insightful)
Theoretically, in a decent company, competent marketing types figure out what product at what price will generate the most profit. Unfortunately, it seems that finding intelligent marketing folks in corporate America is a real trick. The best marketing most of the professional marketing types accomplish is the marketing to the HR department to get themselves the job.
Another problem is metrics - if bonuses are based on short-term profit
Re:Sorry for the possible tangent (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't mean this as a flame, but whenever I have come to like software with the MS label on it I end up learning that MS bought it and integrated it rather then developing it on their own.
After reading the book BREAKING WINDOWS a few years back I came to the conclusion that a lack of really nice software actually developed at MS was a result of business personnel hamstringing the developers.
To be fair, business people also contribute to the quality of software as some of them are closer to the people and can prevent the developers from making decisions for the software that will render it hideous for the user.
Double edged sword.
Re:Sorry for the possible tangent (Score:2, Interesting)
Ok, that may be a little over the top, but MS has really done little innovation wrt to serving customers in over 5 years, and, since it missed the begining of the Internet, it main mission has been to control the marketplace. This energy, whi
Re:Sorry for the possible tangent (Score:3, Interesting)
Unfortunately I don't think Micorsoft has a monopoly there. It's probably far from the worst company in this respect
I certainly see some occasional signs that a programmer or other intelligent person was allowed to invent something and implement it without product testing and management review. The shrinking of icons down to 16x16 in Windows 95 is probably the best example, you can be sure management and advertisin
Re:a company should not then..... (Score:2)
Being a good manager is an entirely different skill set, and a good manager is able to understand the limitations of the supply line without having actually worked on it. The same thing goes with advertising. A good advertiser will listen to the people or managers making the product and then go sell whatever t
Re:a company should not then..... (Score:3, Interesting)
ahhh the old adage - "a good manager can manage anything". While that certainly may be true in some sectors and at some higher management levels (Corporate Officers etc) I think the reality for IT is a manager DOES need have some experience.
Based on my (admittedly somewhat narrow) experience you really do have to know something about the technology you are managing or your employees are going to walk all over you or attempt to subvert you, your clients will bypass you and you will be limited in your strat
Submission Error (Score:4, Funny)
That should read: The weblog entry 'Show me the money' is an interesting tale of Microsoft Money from a former Misrosoft developer who now waits in line for his free cheese every week.
Wow, I don't expect him to last long there making public statements like this!
Re:Submission Error (Score:3, Insightful)
MS employees are being encouraged to start blogs and engage the /community/ (ie: astroturf on /.) so why would he not last long? He's doing his job.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Submission Error (Score:2)
I have a couple of friends who work for Microsoft who love being able to work on their projects and have the support that only a company like Microsoft can provide. They go home at night and work on their linux box, just like the rest of us. It's not a struggle against Microsoft, it's a struggle with fellow developers.
or at least that's wha
Re:Submission Error (Score:2)
Didn't you know? "We used to have problems but its all OK now" is a perfectly acceptable company promotional line. Even top executives use it.
Where's Money's roll today? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure there are folks who have disperate accounts and complex fincial arrangements where that might make sense, and they're the 1% actually using these products. For everyone else, a decade ago there was a demand because people wanted to keep track of their finances between bank statements. Today you just click online and your bank shows you exactly where your finances are.
As banks try to differentiate themselves in the online marketplace, you can bet they'll expand their offerings until they compete with the offerings from Intuit and Microsoft. Perhaps those firms should stop trying to sell millions of copies to customers and instead try and sell server based software to the banks to produce a customer interface, or are they already doing thatas well?
No no no (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No no no (Score:2)
Re:Where's Money's roll today? (Score:5, Interesting)
Long Answer: Read Below
Those of us whom accountants might say have even somewhat complicated tax returns require a program to help categorize and summarize all of the various transactions. Now my Bank doesn't have enough information to do that... and they don't need it either (*dons tinfoil hat*)... and if they did I would find another bank (*removes tinfoil hat*).
I run Quicken all year long and when tax time comes around it's a matter of running the right reports and taking the results and putting them in the various schedules. Even the IRS is often satisfied with the reports generated by Quicken, though they may ask for actual receipts and such during the audit.
The point being that Quicken (sorry guys, tried moving over to OSS and wasn't satisfied with current state) gives me detailed Tax related categorization and summarization that my bank statement (online banking service) doesn't.
Re:Where's Money's roll today? (Score:2, Insightful)
Stock market tanking? That's bad right. What percentage of your finances is in stock? 5%? 10% 50%? Online bill pay doesn't tell you any of this. At best, all it can do is tell you what your bank balance is.
Re:Where's Money's roll today? (Score:2)
Re:Where's Money's roll today? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Where's Money's roll today? (Score:2)
OSS Alternatives (Score:3, Insightful)
May I ask which programs you tried & what faults you found with them? GNUCash is really quite good, as are some of the simpler alternatives.
Re:Where's Money's roll today? (Score:5, Insightful)
This is why people end up paying bank fees and bouncing checks so often. Automatic payments, delay in deposits, etc. Balancing your books is just as important today as it was fifteen/fifty years ago. Any online banking system I've used tells you how much the bank has (more a less an instant statement). All so often, however, we set up automatic payments, we have direct deposit, financial movements a statement won't reflect because they haven't happened yet, and you need plan for these. I have no doubt online banking will reach this sophistication, but there will always be a place for the bank's balance and your books balance.
By the way, I have Bank of America, and I love their report of pending debits/credits, it's helped me plan for unexpected (fraudulent, like cancelled health insurance and an ISP who decided to continue charging me) debits from my account by transferring money from my savings, avoiding fees/etc. that make things messy.
Is there an online system that works like a register (where you can enter a check that may not post for three days), or do they all simply reflect balances and posted transactions still?
Re:Where's Money's roll today? (Score:2)
Of course, I never use checks because I have a check card, so I don't have the problem of writing a check and then making sure that it won
Re:Where's Money's roll today? (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes. You've got to remember the difference in goals. Banks want you to stick money in their vaults and keep it there. They also want you to take out high-interest loans. Basically, they don't want you leaving the bank.
Money/Quicken, on the other hand, have become competition-laden marketing tools. Each touts loan offers and banks from a gazillion vendors. The more they fight, the more MS and Intui
Re:Where's Money's roll today? (Score:5, Informative)
Here's what Microsoft Money tells me:
What bills are due soon, and how much I will probably owe. It helps remind me about twice-a-year bills (auto insurance) and once-every-few-years bills (magazine subscriptions).
An estimate of my cash flow as impacted by bills, salary, and other expenses, projected with some accuracy for one month, six months, years, etc.
Categorization of my expenses. I can calculate my "lazy belly" ratio (money spent on eating out over money spent on groceries), look for trends, and look where I can cut back on expenses
Set a budget, and track how I'm doing. This makes the cash flow estimates more reliable
Track my 401K and retirement accounts, my Roth IRAs, and after-tax account. This includes tracking the performance of individual stocks and funds, and calculating personal rates of return. I also get a reminder to deposit money in the Roths every month.
Quickly determine when I can safely move money from checking to savings, and when I need to move from savings to checking.
Plan for buying a new car, a new house, or bringing home a baby.
Plan for retirement, by estimating my long-term needs (college, health costs, desired retirement date), and creating a plan to meet those needs.
In short, Microsoft Money lets me feel in control of my finances. It has saved me money, in avoiding overdraft charges due to unexpected bills. It has made me money, in being able to keep more in an interest bearing savings account, keeping checking as low as possible. Finally, I am saving more than ever, and I have a retirement plan which I believe will work.
The fact that you think only 1% need this, then maybe you need to think about your retirement needs, and see if you are keeping a good eye on your cash.
Re:Where's Money's roll [sic] today? (Score:2)
Yes. Online Banking only services a particular type of customer (the ones living from paycheck to paycheck, who only have a single bank account, no investments, a single mortgage). It doesn't take much to exceed what Online Banking is capable of.
I do all of my banking through Quicken (used to use CheckFree for bill payments). All but one of my monthly bills is entirely automatic and online (and I'm
Reports too (Score:2, Interesting)
One time, this doctor's office said that I didn't pay one of their bills. I produced a report showing the payments, dates, and even check numbers. I made sure all the checks cleared - they did. I then walked in with the report, showed it to the office manager, and she just took it and said she'd confirm it. After not hearing anythin
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hmmmmm.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hmmmmm.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmmmmm.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmmmmm.... (Score:2, Insightful)
One month ago I had to pass a Marketing exam which basically was about "studying" a couple threehundred pages books on the subject of marketing and answer 50 multiple choice questions.Feh ! I bargained a not satisfactory vote for 3 more months of time wasted into memorizing silly "right answers".
+-80% of the book was well written vapourware with a glassing of rational analysis, but there were some valuable hints in the salesman section.The big point
Re:Hmmmmm.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Marketing departments are more interested in _telling_ users what they want, than asking them.
Re:Hmmmmm.... (Score:2)
***
"I sat through meetings where we were asked to research ways in which to increase the amount of time that users spent in Money. Increase the amount of time! Users always ask for the exact opposite. Users want a Navy Seal relationship with Money -- get in quietly, do the job quickly, leave no c
Hold on (Score:5, Interesting)
From what I know, Microsoft money is a standalone application for Windows. How, then would they measure minutes viewed, click-through, etc unless they secretly transfer these statistics when the computer is online?
I went to the Microsoft Money (TM) website, and they don't seem to have a web-based or online version of it, in which context these stats would make sense.
Does M$ track and report the amount of time each application was in use on a PC? Sounds improbable, but with a TFH on, it's hard to say.
Re:Hold on (Score:5, Interesting)
Totally offtopic, but... (Score:4, Interesting)
Telemate was the ULTIMATE BBS terminal application! It did all sorts of funky protocols (like Z-modem with resumed downloads), it did chained downloads with correctly guesstimated time-left for current/all file(s), you could use plugins (like one plugin that let you see JPGs when downloading so you could easily cancel the ghey ones before having completed them) it was multi-threaded, had cool text-based windows, scripts, it was totally the bomb!
*snif* finally a Microsoft employee brings a tear to my eye for something else than excruciating frustration..
Excuse me while I wallow in nostalgia..
Re:Totally offtopic, but... (Score:2)
Re:Totally offtopic, but... (Score:2)
It was also very, very nice to use when dialling BBSes.. You just selected a number of BBSes, and it would try all their numbers, and skip to the next one on a busy tone. If it connected to a BBS, it would then not try to dial its alt
I dont need some fancy finance program... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I dont need some fancy finance program... (Score:5, Insightful)
I've found Gnucash to be vastly superior.
It easily tracks my expenses and account balances.
To do that in a spreadsheet would be more complicated.
Re:I dont need some fancy finance program... (Score:2)
Re:I dont need some fancy finance program... (Score:2)
Also it is convenient to have up to date records of every purchase across all accounts and credit cards all in one place.
Plus it reminds me what bills I have paid, and when. What outstanding checks haven't been cashed, and more detail on transactions.
The aggregate data on how much I spend on gas, food etc is also useful.
Re:I dont need some fancy finance program... (Score:2)
Oh yes, I forgot about the huge interest rates these days! Unless you have > $10,000 cash, it doesn't really matter. And if you have >$10,000 cash, well, put it in at least some bonds or something :) Heck, better than some savings account.
Re:I dont need some fancy finance program... (Score:2)
But every now and again, the bank statement is wrong. Once it was wrong to the tune of $110. It took me six months to straighten that out and get Bank of America to credit the money to me. What happened? Some "indep
Re:I dont need some fancy finance program... (Score:2)
It was Wells Fargo, not Bank of America where I had the problem.
I don't know why I wrote Bank of America. I've never had an account there.
Gotta switch to a better brand of crack.
Re:I dont need some fancy finance program... (Score:2)
Re:I dont need some fancy finance program... (Score:5, Funny)
I keep all of my cash in my left pocket. The rest of my "personal worth" is tied up in my gas tank.
I've used a spreadsheet for several years.. (Score:2)
"Do th
Quicken is the only reason I have Windows (Score:2)
Agreed (Score:2)
I actually run Virtual PC under OS X purely to get Quicken. I know there's a Quicken for OS X, but it's not up to the Windows version and doesn't come in a UK localised flavour. Result: emulation of Quicken under Windows.
I do look at the Crossover Office site from time to time, but they never list Quicken as being a Gold supported app. I have fairly complex personal accounts, and I also run my own business so the cost of ke
Beware of geeks bearing gifts (Score:5, Insightful)
As opposed to a bunch of propeller-beanie techies who wouldn't know what a customer wants if he was screaming it in their faces? I've worked on projects where the technologists were in charge, and it's equally ugly. The best result seems to come from collaborative efforts where the marketing types say, "We need X," and the tech heads tell them why it's lame, derivative, and technologically uncool. The two sides squabble for a while, then someone in management threatens both sides with unemployment and it gets done.
Re:Beware of geeks bearing gifts (Score:5, Insightful)
Market weenies are too much of 'today' - they are forever trying to catch up with where others have been, reacting rather than acting. They should NEVER be anything other than support to something with a development time greater than six months in the IT world. The drive for something to be delivered in a year's time should always be someone who can imagine that far out.
And on a related point, do you notice how you feel quite happy using abusive terms for those with technical skill? Do you ever call marketing and advertising 'liars' (as I did above)? If not, why not? It's an apt description - but maybe they would complain to much, it wouldn't be socially acceptable.
Until you start having respect for those that can do, you will never learn to work successfully TOGETHER, and you'll continue to think conflict is the best collaboration.
Re:Beware of geeks bearing gifts (Score:2)
I like marketing types. They're a fun-loving crowd, plus they have expense accounts. Whenever I've been on a project where they're involved, it's been a blast, since we go out at night and drink Courvosier on the company's dime, and get neato stuff like fancy coffee mugs with the project name. You have to curb their instin
Re:Beware of geeks bearing gifts (Score:2)
This is the exact problem with having tech people totally (not cooperating with) marketting/sales/user people. Technical solutions are secondary to meeting the needs of the clients and sometimes the needs of the client is non-techincal.
You are developing a product, n
Sad part is... (Score:2, Interesting)
Don't even get me started on the lack of a 'real' money management software package on Mac OS. Quicken is a joke.
Except for the tendency to break your finance file (Score:2)
I simply can't afford a finance package that doesn't give me accurate numbers. This kind of thing is the same reason I left my last finance package (Budget for M
Re:Sad part is... (Score:2)
Me too! But I have to admit that it's a really good product. I've used it since Money 2001, and I've used just about every feature available in the "Deluxe" version. I use it daily to track my finances, and run reports periodically to ensure that my spending doesn't eclipse my earning.
I'd love to try a competitive package. Gnucash is just too hard. I spend a week
Money vs Quicken (Score:5, Interesting)
Quicken has much better set-up, more support, and a more professional look. Money has the ONE "killer" feature for me. It can show a chart, based on your bills and paychecks you enter in, showing how much money is in an account.
I use this to look at my checking account, and make sure that my lowest point of money each month remains at a certain level. Its very obvious weeks in advance if your checking account is going to drop below the minimum balance, etc.
I used quicken for a few days and couldn't find this feature, so I went back to Money.
Re:Money vs Quicken (Score:2)
if this type of charting & trending presented automatically does rock. might be a fun summer project to try and plug something like that into an open-source app.
Re:Money vs Quicken (Score:4, Informative)
When it first came out... (Score:5, Insightful)
I worked in retail back then. We dealt with a lot of Microsoft products, and I saw their play many times.
First, you find a market with a clear leader. Then, you produce a knock-off, and use marketing to move eyeballs towards your product, convincing the masses that it's superior. (This is the only part that the actual product quality plays. If it sucks so bad that nobody will be fooled into thinking it's superior, then the quality needs to be better.) Finally, if it looks like the market leader will survive, then buy them out; otherwise, drop your price to something minimal and wait it out.
This was played out nowhere as clearly as Quicken. Microsoft made MS Money (which sucked terribly). MS did everything they could to make people see Money. Then they tried to buy Intuit, the makers of Quicken (but Unc' Sam put a stop to that).
Microsoft was clearly dumbfounded. Their three-step plan didn't work. What could they do? MS Money thrashed in agony for a year or two until Microsoft realized they might actually have to put some engineers into improving their product.
Not long after that, I left retail, and knocked the last dust of Microsoft products off my boots. So I don't know what's happened since then; only that every bank I've used supports MS Money downloads.
Most of us watched something similar in the browser wars, but more pronouced. Didja notice that IE was constantly improving lots, right up until IE 4? That's when they started to bundle it with the OS to get eyeballs instead of having to rely on other people who might be able to form opinions of their own. (Actually, the bundling started with IE 3 IIRC, but towards the end of its lifecycle.)
Anyway, when you think of things in those terms, then you want eyeballs. You want people thinking about MS Money as long as possible. That's your only goal. Meeting customer demand is irrelevant, so long as you don't fail by enough to lose eyeballs. And eyeballs are what marketroids know about (well, that and gin).
This entire business strategy is exactly the way for a successful monopoly in one market to expand into other markets. (Leveraging the monopolized markets, like happened with IE, is good too when you can pull it off.) It's terrible for the society, because it mutilates Adam Smith's invisible hand and leaves one finger. But it's good for the share prices.
Re:When it first came out... (Score:2)
The bundling started, I think, with IE 2 which I think got bundled with NT4. It might also have been on some early copies of 95. It was upgraded to IE 3 pretty quickly, though (in OSR1?). A few people are still using IE3, because it's what they got when they bought Win95.
Re:When it first came out... (Score:2)
The bundling started, I think, with IE 2 which I think got bundled with NT4.
Ah, I didn't know about that. I didn't work with NT much; we were mostly targeting home and small business.
It might also have been on some early copies of 95. It was upgraded to IE 3 pretty quickly, though (in OSR1?).
I only recall seeing one version of IE bundled with 95, but that was a long time ago and my memory isn't what it used to be, I think. I believe IE started in at OSR2. I do remember that the price on Windows went
Still the same old stuff, free software beat them. (Score:2)
They kept doing the same thing as always. They are buying magazine reviews and declaring victory. Heck, they are even making web blogs like Apple Switchers. The usual BS, convince people it's true and they will spend their money, the fools think. More amazingly, but all in line with their new propaganda, the author claims competition hurt users! This article is an amazing admission of Microsoft greed.
They realize
GNUcash (Score:5, Informative)
The learning curve was fairly high, not being an accountant and not knowing anything about this Double Entry Bookkeeping thing.
I had used Quicken before, and found it OK, but I don't normally run windows...
Once I made it through the Included tutorials and documentation, I have used GNUcash regularly for the last year or so and am a very happy user.
It is unfortunate that GNUcash is not on enough radar screens to show up in a weblog like this one. A REAL comparison would be nice.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
He's right, dammit (Score:5, Interesting)
They still use the 16-bit version of Money from the Windows 3.11 for Workgroup days. Why? Because it's simple, and all it does is the books. They won't upgrade because all the later versions of Money want to go on the internet and do other fancy things making it harder - not easier - to use. This is one of the points that the article mentions first.
Personally, I use gnucash and it does for me
Yep, GNUcash rocks. (Score:4, Informative)
Yep, the fancy features don't get in the way of the ones you want first. GNU cash has very sophisticated accounting, but I'm easily able to use it to just balance my check book. Other stuff, like being able to deal with Yen, stocks, taxes and the very powerful reports are all there but not obtrusive. When I use GNUcash, I'm not bowled over by feeling of gee wiz bang, and doubts about trusting my money to the program.
Kmoney, I'm sure is another excellent program. Everything else KDE rocks and everytime I do a review of a KDE thingy, I end up hooked. GNUcash is good enough that I have not made the effort, yet.
Linux user addicted to MS Money (Score:3, Informative)
I've tried gnucash and Moneydance. Frankly, they suck. I would love to see a usable personal finance software package from the F/OSS crowd that will run on my linux boxes. But I haven't found one yet. The only two options (IMHO) are Quicken and MS Money. And I'm not going to pay for Quicken until I'm sure that it will meet my needs. And personal financial management software is absolutely critical in my ability to maintain what I espouse in my signature. I use MS Money every day. I skip a day every week or so. But if I ever skipped a week, I'd feel very uncomfortable about my personal finances.
So, I'd much prefer to use a F/OSS package that accomplishes what I can do in MS Money. And, in lieu of that, I'd prefer one that was platform independant. But nothing that I've tried yet has come even close.
FYI: I run MS Money under linux using Win4Lin [netraverse.com]
What happened to Andrew Tobias (Score:2)
Stopped using this stuff. (Score:2, Informative)
I currently keep my records in spreadsheets and on paper. I would use Gnucash, but its support for check printing leaves a bit to be desired (can only print one check at a time on a sheet of three).
The easy way (Score:4, Funny)
Here's what I've done instead. I have automatic paycheck deposits, all my bills on automatic payment and I use an ATM card for cash. Property taxes I pay online and my IRS return takes like 5 minutes to do because I don't own or buy jack. I never worry about checks because I don't write any. I should have my house payed off in a few years and I'm under 30 years old. I don't make much, but since I don't have shopping sickness I've always got cash.
Once the house is payed I'm going to get a part time telecommuting job, make a recurring grocery list which will be delivered to me in the mail once a month, and just never leave the house except to maybe go have a beer. There is a bar down the street that gives flight miles for your tab, so if I get drunk enough I can get a free cruise or a vacation or something and meet tropical chicks and party. Who needs financial software? Just don't blow your money on stupid stuff or get married or have kids or anything that takes all your money away. Its worked for me.
Check register vs. "money manager" (Score:2)
Frankly, I've switched to
Use MONEYDANCE! (Score:5, Informative)
Ever since I discovered Linux, I have wanted a replacement that I could live with. I tried lots of stuff running Quicken with Crossover, GNUCash, etc..
But Moneydance wins. It looks a little primiative but it really really is nicely done. It runs on any platform Linux, Windows, MacOSX, Solaris, HPUX etc.. It has a great development company. Email them and they will email you back in a day or less with detailed technical information. Try that with Quicken and Microsoft.
There is also a very active and helpful online community for support.
It supports most all online banks systems because it totally emulates quicken to the banks. It even has integrated online bill pay that works great with my BancOne account.
Try it... for $29.99 its one the best peices of software out there. If your not against paying for anything its great.
There is also a free 30 trial that will import all your data from your old program.
http://www.moneydance.com
I don't know a single person that uses either (Score:2)
All the Canadian banks, there are five, and most credit unions have comprehensive on-line banking. On-line access usually includes telephone banking, so you can pay bills, transfer money and check you balance from either the phone or Internet. No need to use a computer program to find out what your balance is, just call or click to the Internet.
Cheques are not popular in Canada and usually not accepted for anything other than rent and b
please please God give us alternatives (Score:5, Insightful)
They didn't mention gnucash?! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:missreading the title (Score:2)