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Programming IT Technology

.Net Framework and Visual Studio Now Available 345

Posted by Zonk from the get-them-while-they're-hot dept.
DJ-Dodger writes "The Microsoft Blogs are all buzzing with news that the .NET Framework 2.0, Visual Studio.NET 2005 and Sql Server 2005 have released to manufacture. Michael Swanson's blog has a nice run down of what's available now and what's coming. The short version: MSDN Subscribers can download everything now, everybody else can pick up their copy after the November 7th launch." The .Net framework is downloadable from FileForum.
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.Net Framework and Visual Studio Now Available More

.Net Framework and Visual Studio Now Available

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  • Oh boy! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 28, 2005 @03:12PM (#13899325)
    I just love Microsoft products! Now, I just wait for the karma to roll in ...

    • Seriously (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Overly Critical Guy ( 663429 )
      Lately, a ton of militant Microsoft and Windows defenders have really gotten vocal around here. There's always been that contingent, but now you can't even report the big news that more two key executives have left Microsoft without a bunch of "WHY IS THIS FRONTPAGE NEWS OMG THAT'S /. FOR YOU" comments. You also get the "XP hasn't blue-screened for me in years, which means the other 99% of the population who have had problems don't count" comments and the wannabe MSDN subscribing know-it-alls who write va

  • Torrent? (Score:5, Funny)

    by fuzzy12345 ( 745891 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @03:13PM (#13899332)
    Sheesh. At least point us to a torrent.

    And "SQL Server 2005"? Shouldn't that be 2006? What do I want with last year's model?

  • Direct download (Score:5, Informative)

    by dedazo ( 737510 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @03:13PM (#13899337) Journal
    If you're downloading the 2.0 framework & SDK (many people write .NET apps without Visual Studio), you can get them directly [microsoft.com] from the MSDN .NET developer center.

    I'm guessing MSDN is going to be less swamped than FileForum, though the subscriber downloads are extremely slow at the moment as expected.

    • Actually, it's rolling in here at ~200kb/s all the way to Europe. Although at ~3GB for VS2005 alone, it's still taking a while.
      • Extremely slow in North America - I thought it was the pipe coming in here but someone just IM'ed me from somewhere else in the US and they're having the same problem.

        Oh well, I can always wait for the DVDs to arrive at the office =)

        Actually since I do a lot of development with their C++ compiler and (gasp) vim, for the moment I only want to look at the framework. I don't use VS.NET that much and can't think of a way to use SQL Server at all, but I do want to look at them eventually.

    • I'm getting 4000kb/s at work.
  • Sounds like they're getting ready to distribute it during the "Ready Launch Tour 2005"
    http://www.microsoft.com/events/2005launchevents/s st.mspx [microsoft.com]

  • You could get a free copy (Score:4, Informative)

    by mymaxx ( 924704 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @03:14PM (#13899347)
    They are handing out free copies at their launch events.

  • C# Generics (Score:3, Informative)

    by skraps ( 650379 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @03:15PM (#13899354)
    It's about time. The beta has been out for about a year I think.

    • Re:C# Generics (Score:3, Informative)

      by Pxtl ( 151020 )
      C# Generics should've been in the language back when it was called Java. The fact that the whole development world jumped over to these JIT platforms before that kind of basic expressiveness was present in the language perplexed and disgusted me. I mean really, for all people call them "C++ without the cruft" missing templates was "C++ without the basic, usable functionality".

  • Sql Server 2005 eh ? (Score:3, Funny)

    by testednegative ( 843833 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @03:16PM (#13899358)
    I wonder if they still have the wonderfull sa/(null) feature. God I loved that one...
    • 1999 called. They want their security holes back.
    • No, they don't allow the sa account to have a blank password any longer. Actually, 2005 now requires the sa password to be "strong" (upper and lower case characters plus numbers or special characters).
    • You mean the stupid user who doesn't put in a password feature? Yeah maybe MS could've thought ahead on that one, but you have to lay most of the blame of that exploit on the users.

  • Cool! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dslauson ( 914147 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @03:17PM (#13899369) Journal
    As much as I hate to give MS props, C# is one of my favorite languages to program in. I'm a GNU programmer at heart, but programming C# is like brain candy. I don't have to think about memory allocation or anything even remotely machine-related.

    I know, I know, Java's got that stuff, too. I like 'em both. A guy can swing both way, right?

    • Re:Cool! (Score:4, Funny)

      by geoffrobinson ( 109879 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @03:22PM (#13899413) Homepage
      Not that there's anything wrong with that.

    • Re:Cool! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by DrXym ( 126579 )
      I programme Java and C#. To be honest, the differences between the two languages (especially since Java 1.5 & .NET 2.0) are so slight that it makes no damned difference which one I'm writing for. What makes a massive difference is the tools you use to write for these languages.

      Eclipse is an absolutely awesome development platform. It is packed with so many useful things, that it's hard to imagine what developing without would be like. Being able to rename a class and every call to it, or turn a bunch

      • I agree. I can switch between java and c# like its nothing. Eclipse is a nice IDE but i prefer vs.net maybe because i'm used to it more. Eclipse refactoring tools are wonderful, but there are 3rd party addons(refactor is one) to vs.net to add the same functionality.

      • Re:Cool! (Score:2, Informative)

        by SpryGuy ( 206254 )
        IntelliJ IDEA for Java is even better (but it costs money). And Visual Studio 2003, let's face it, SUCKS. After working in IDEA for 3 years, going to VS2003 felt like going back to stone knives and bear-skins. It was awful.

        But thankfully, the IntelliJ IDEA authors at JetBrains came up with "ReSharper" as a plugin to Visual Studio 2003, which brought it up to the level of almost being usable.

        Visual Studio 2005 is significantly better than 2003, but still nowhere close to Eclipse or IntelliJ IDEA. And als

      • Re:Cool! (Score:3, Informative)

        by Jugalator ( 259273 )
        DevStudio 2003 is not so great in this regard (although editing forms is easier) but I expect that the 2005 edition is a hell of a lot better.

        What I like most about 2005 is that it has honestly got the best UI editor I've seen in an IDE yet with its intelligent guides to align controls, along with it having vastly improved debug and analysis tools, such as a good edit & continue, code coverage analysis, and much more goodies. There are two products I do believe Microsoft is doing really well with nowada

    • Re:Cool! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Thai-Pan ( 414112 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @03:54PM (#13899732) Journal
      Thank you! I feel exactly the same. I've been a Linux hippie for years, but I'm very rapidly converting to the dark side. Get prepared for a rant not specific to just C#...

      I don't care what anyone says, C# is way better than Java. And I have ~5 years experience with Java, 6 months experience with C#. It converted me in no time. C# is very pleasant and the language just seems to get out of your way when you want to do something, largely because of the .Net framework.

      I'm tired of the fact that it's "cool" to make fun of Microsoft on Slashdot. But you know what? They have a lot of very solid products. Visual Studio is a fantastic IDE. SQL Server is not always the server of choice, but it is very powerful nonetheless.

      I'd say this is going to be a very big year for Microsoft. All of their major product groups have a major release due out, and they're all looking very good from what I've seen so far.

      So we may not always like Microsoft's products in every way, and we may downright hate some of their business practices. Does that make Visual Studio and C# any worse of a product? Does that make Microsoft Word a worse word processor? NO.

      "OMG WINDOWS 95 HAD BLUE SCREENS LOL C# MUST BE BAD" -- Grow up.

      The entire open source community needs to grow up a little bit. There's a tremendous amount of talent in it, but it's so obscured by absurd social stigmas and internet-Green-Peace propaganda that a great deal of it loses credability. Visual Studio is a great IDE. C# is a great language. Office is a great productivity toolkit. People use them. Live with it, move on.
      • If you think Visual Studio 2003 was a "fantastic" IDE, then you haven't used many modern IDEs. At the very least, you need to add something like "Resharper" to make it even remotely usable, imho.

        I do love C# and the .Net framekwork though, I have to admit. I worked in Java for several years, and I think C# is just cleaner for a lot of things. And before Java I was C++ for a good many years, and C before that. I think C# is just about the easiest (while still being powerful) langauges I've ever used.

      • Re:Cool! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by m4g02 ( 541882 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @04:12PM (#13899927)
        I don't care what anyone says, C# is way better than Java. And I have ~5 years experience with Java, 6 months experience with C#. It converted me in no time. C# is very pleasant and the language just seems to get out of your way when you want to do something, largely because of the .Net framework.

        I agree C# is better than Java but I don't like both, I know you don't need to cover your traces when dealing with memory and dynamic allocation, but you are sacrificing quite a bit of processor time and system memory in the process. Garbage collectors and every other tool meant to make programming easy costs heavily in time and hardware. Most probably you are going to say that now days computers are fast enough to pay the toll but that is true only for certain cases. Think about AI, speech recognition (even an OS) and many other processor demanding tasks, you would like to use wisely every tick of the clock... As always the method to solve the problem is in the problem itself, but I personally would like to spend my days developing something more significant than a monthly savings report for McDonalds so I'm glad to take my time, use my brain and continue developing on C++.

        So we may not always like Microsoft's products in every way, and we may downright hate some of their business practices. Does that make Visual Studio and C# any worse of a product? Does that make Microsoft Word a worse word processor? NO.

        No, it doesn't, but as business practices go you can be damn sure they are going to struggle to suck your money up with incompatibilities, upgrades and what else.

      • Re:Cool! (Score:3, Informative)

        by Samus ( 1382 )
        I can't argue the C# vs Java language issue as I have to use VB.net at work but I do have to take issue with what you say about the .Net framework being better. Sometime go and grab a tool like the .Net Reflector and poke around. You'll find tons of classes that are either only friend scope or that have constructors that are friend scope. The number of classes that are not inheritable is high as well. Sometimes a class is public with a friend level constructor so your code can see it but not instantiate
    • I hear this a lot... but I wonder how much this is just because coders were stuck with C? I mean, if you use C++ and actually take the time to learn the language and the free tools available (like doing little things like using vectors and smart pointers). I haven't gotten to use 2.0 (or Java 5) yet, but up until there I feel like C# and Java are like being forced back into highschool - everything I know about abstraction and once-and-only-once is now useless because the languages no longer include concep
      • I feel the same you that you do, except about C++. Coming from a LISP background, languages like C++ feel overly-complex and clunky. C# actually is a much more (IMHO) easy-to-learn language.
        • Yes, I agree that C++ was overcomplicated - this is by necessity. They took an already complex language(C) added some new concepts to it (const, for example) and then implemented a thorough, versatile OOP system with it.

          C# came and simplified the C language and removed some of those new concepts. Those were great steps. The problem is that they also ripped out a lot of the high-level and OO programming concepts too (like multiple inheritence and metaprogramming). That's where the problems came in. The

  • Windows without a compiler?! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by zerojoker ( 812874 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @03:29PM (#13899496)
    This article made me think about it. I mean Microsoft is shipping an operating system without a compiler included. Isn't that strange, that everyone takes this as normal? Isn't a compiler an integral part of an operating system.
    I mean sure, a nice IDE is something different, and with those Express Editions things have changed now, but still... if you buy a computer out of the box you can't program it. Not even a simple compiler, Basic or whatever.
    In the good ol' days that would have been unthinkable...

    • No. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      How many computer users are also computer programmers?

      Did your router come with a manual that discusses the Ethernet protocol?

      Did your car come with all the tools necessary to change the oil and rotate the tires?

      Did your DVD player's manual talk about the DVD specification?

      Did your LCD's documentation discuess signal pins and timings of the driver it uses?

      No, because very few people would find it useful. Linux comes with everything because it is a hacker's operating system. Windows doesn't because it is a
      • How many computer users are also computer programmers?

        How many computer programmers are programmers today because their computer come with BASIC or a compiler and they started playing with it?

        Did your car come with all the tools necessary to change the oil and rotate the tires?

        No, but the manual has instructions telling how to.

        Did your DVD player's manual talk about the DVD specification?

        I dunno. I didn't read it. :-)
    • Well, I just bought a laptop w/ XP that had the .Net Framework 1.1 included. The framework ships with a C#, a VB.Net, and a JavaScript.Net compiler, so you don't need an IDE to compile.
      • If you want a free IDE to go with those free compilers, you might enjoy SharpDevelop [icsharpcode.net]. It's a pretty good (open source/free) IDE, at least from the limited playing around I've done with it (I'm more of a Java / lamp guy, but I try to at least check in on the MSFT world once a year or so).
    • In the old days computers were only bought by geeks. Nowadays only a small percantage of people care about a compiler. 'sides, can't you just code using in CRL and a text editor as long as you have the .Net framework?
    • Not sure which good old days you are talking about. None of the computers I've ever purchased came with a compiler (I admit my VIC20 and C64 "came with" BASIC) Are you talking about the VAX days?
    • Fortunately, there's MinGW [mingw.org], various [bloodshed.net] IDE's [codeblocks.org], and a bunch [ogre3d.org] of
      Open [fox-toolkit.org] source [fltk.org]
      libraries [wxwidgets.org] available [sourceforge.net] online [libsdl.org].
    • The vast majority of people who use Windows have no use for a compiler. Windows is a binary-only 'distribution' so it does not require a compiler to install software. Some people think that's better than having to open a console to write 'make & make install', some don't. But if you're wondering about the reason, that's it. Normal people (a demographic which I assume does not include you) don't buy computers so they can 'program them'.

      I've been using Ubuntu for a few months now and because I have Syna

    • Those good old days to which you seem to be thinking back were when computers did not come in boxes. They came in crates and they were assembled by a team of factory reps. ;-)

      Even then, there was a cost associated with the compiler.
    • Most of you are missing the parents point. In the past, a lot of systems came with development tools. Commodore's and Atari's came with BASIC. BEOS came with a compiler and IDE. Macs come with a compiler, etc.

  • Get it here (Score:3, Informative)

    by anandpur ( 303114 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @03:30PM (#13899505)
    Mono provides the necessary software to develop and run .NET client and server applications on Linux, Solaris, Mac OS X, Windows, and Unix

    http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page [mono-project.com]
    • cool! Thanks for the link. Is it possible with this to have a (very simple) program that would compile under both windows and linux? Or are the libraries too different?

      • Re:Get it here (Score:3, Insightful)

        by amliebsch ( 724858 )
        Not only can you do this, but you the compiled binary files themselves (which are actually MSIL) run on both platforms. It doesn't have to be real simple, either - but for now, avoiding any GUI other than STDOUT is the key to portability. I've done this plenty of times before - write console app in Visual Studio, compile to .exe, run exe file on slackware...groovy!
  • Again I don't see a merge module for this piece of software.

    This has always been perplexing: Why is there no merge module for the .Net Framework to build installs around? Admittedly MS's packaging system isn't portable while .Net strives to be (how much it is a subject of debate). So if a true merge module is not possible how about providing a "dummy" merge module instead that doesn't provide the distributable but provides install time information?? If I have to make an install for .Net application it re
  • .Net Framework and Visual Studio Coming Soon to a P2P Network Near You! No, seriously.

  • Java will still rule (Score:3, Insightful)

    by thammoud ( 193905 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @03:50PM (#13899688)
    The fact of the matter is that C# will never be able to erode Java's dominance since it is not cross platform. Don't sell me on the Mono project. It is still a little toy. For the .NET platform to be a true competitor, MS will have to port it to all Java supported platforms. Not very likely. Most projects that we work with are written in Java and Run on various platforms. No amount of .NOT will ever touch that.

    • Spoken like a true Java fanboi. Everytime somebody wants to tout Java you always hear the "cross platform" argument. I could come back and say that Java is slow as hell, but then I'd just be spouting off the same dogma you are.

      Fact of the matter is that Both Java and .Net are great frameworks for running business apps. If you want to use linux, use java, if you want to run wintel, then use .net. They are really pretty simillar to be honest and most businesses don't mix the 2 platforms, so cross platform

    • Re:Java will still rule (Score:2, Informative)

      by megame ( 915705 )
      Java's dominance? Isn't Java that thingy for phones? And .Net runs on real computers?

      Just kidding.

      Microsoft has no plans, or better yet - has plans to keep .Net Windows only - selling .Net for other platfoms is not an option (no-one would pay for it) and it would add strength to those other platforms. So why bother? People have Java for that stuff...

      Dominance of .Net in only world in which exists (Windows) was reality since 1.1. And I belive I saw some research about % of projects being done in which progra

  • Changelog for .Net 2 (Score:2, Interesting)

    by cranesan ( 526741 )
    Does anyone know what changed between .NET 2 and 1.1? I can't find anything on Microsoft's site describing what changed.
    • Well, at least they have a stab at real time parsing. I guess you can get enough information from the beta versions to guess what's coming. It's sure to have some refactoring support (renaming classes and updating references and stuff). If you've worked with Eclipse or NetBeans (most popular Java IDE's) you'll know what's possible (real time links between tools and classes for instance). Unfortunately, at least in Beta-1, the functions were still pretty much in their infancy, and there were not many of them
    • Main changes for C# are support of parameterized types (generics), support for partial classes (a class can be split across two files, so, for example, machine generated code lives in one file, and human tweaked or written code lives in another), and support for nullible intrinsic types (so that, say, a bool can be either true, false, or null... an int can either have a value or be null, where 'null' is distinct from all other possible values).

      There are also new globalization/localization features, new secu
    • The changes are listed in the SDK documentation:

      http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?Fa milyID=fe6f2099-b7b4-4f47-a244-c96d69c35dec&Displa yLang=en/ [microsoft.com]

      But a short list would tell you that they added generics and partial classes. The IDE is indescribably efficient at knowing what you want to type using its internal Intellisense functionality. It's sort of a catch-22...it's faster to write code, but if you don't know how to code, it's faster to write bad code.

      The higher versions of the ID

    • Re:Changelog for .Net 2 (Score:3, Informative)

      by megame ( 915705 )
      http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/t357fb32. aspx [microsoft.com]

      64-Bit Platform Support
      Access Control List Support
      ADO.NET 2.0
      ASP.NET 2.0
      Authenticated Streams
      COM Interop Services Enhancements
      Console Class Additions
      Data Protection API
      Debugger Display Attributes
      Debugger Edit and Continue Support
      Detecting Changes in Network Connectivity
      Distributed Computing
      EventLog Enhancements
      Expanded Certificate Management
      FTP Support
      Generics and Generic Collections
      Globalization Imp.
      I/O Enhancements
      Manifest-Based Activation .NET Framew
  • No automatic negative remarks in the article nor by the editor of Slashdot...what is this world coming to?

  • Visual Studio Express (Score:3, Informative)

    by ChaserPnk ( 183094 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @03:59PM (#13899788)
    Personally, as a student, Im looking forward to Visual Studio Express editions. [microsoft.com] You can still grab the Express betas for free. From what I hear, the price point for the final version will be under $100. I think this is a great move by Microsoft. Now millions of students will have access to a cheap, industry standard IDE to code in. What could be better? Not sure when the final versions will be released, but hoping Nov 7 as well.

  • Even Money Says (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BronxBomber ( 633404 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @04:03PM (#13899825)
    Half the /. posts that will piss on this news have not ever used the product, let alone .NET.

    Go on, mod me troll... you know its true. I'm all for calling a spade a spade, but it goes both ways.

  • Benefits on .NET 2.0 Framework (via ASP.net) (Score:3, Insightful)

    by PhatboySlim ( 862704 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @04:39PM (#13900153)
    For those of us who have worked with ASP.net via .NET Framework 1.1 all of us have been painfully aware of the drawbacks:

    - Manual compilation before every execution
    - Slow debugging (IIS needs to be restarted to attach to the aspnet_wp process)
    - Poorly defined/loose html elements
    - Redundant programming/lack of controls (if you didn't take time to roll your own)
    - No cross-page posting

    Fortunately all these issues have been addressed:

    - Pre-compilation
    - No need to define html element values as protected
    - Thin webserver program for viewing applications (improves debugging)
    - Role management out of the box
    - 45 new server controls
    - Cross-page posting
    - Whidbey performance enhancements

    Also, to all the Java/PHP fans (myself included) out there, be sure to give this product/platform some serious respect. It is amazing.

  • Congratulations! (Score:3, Funny)

    by opusman ( 33143 ) on Friday October 28, 2005 @04:54PM (#13900293) Homepage
    I've been trying to download it for an hour now with no success.

    I think we've finally Slashdotted Microsoft!

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