Should Games Be More Boring? 180
An anonymous reader writes "At Gamasutra, serious games creator Ian Bogost is making the case that video games should be more mundane, particularly discussing of Nintendo' Brain Age: 'It's certainly a very different kind of game from Halo or even Miyamoto's own Zelda series, games that allow the player to inhabit complex fantasy worlds. Instead, much of Brain Age's success seems to come precisely from the ordinariness of its demands.' Would games become more accessible if they tapped into everyday things a little bit more, as opposed to spiralling off into fictional realities?"
Umm.... (Score:1, Insightful)
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Boring vs Diverse (Score:5, Informative)
But yes, I think it would be good (for developers and for gamers) for games to break out into more genres. Here's a quote from Rod Humble, Executive Producer of The Sims, which neatly sums up a good way to think about this:
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My take on what he's saying: other companies should be more like Nintendo, and there's nothing stopping them from growing the gaming market (the same way Nintendo is successfully doing) once they decide to put away thei
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Gosh what a great idea: (Score:5, Funny)
Virtual paint drying
Virtual grass growing
Virtual lawn mowing
Virtual gutter cleaning
Virtual root canal
Virtual hoop-pushing down a virtual dirt road with a virtual stick
I'm sure developers could take these a long way and I'm sure we can all agree we greatly anticipate the results
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http://www.seanbaby.com/nes/egm.htm [seanbaby.com]
Layne
You forgot one: (Score:2)
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or... (Score:2)
My problem with second-life (Score:2)
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Computer Linguistics Marathon Lecture is a breakthruogh game offering no less than ten hours of uninterrupted computer linguistics. Can you spot the mistake the lecturer made when descibing finite automata? Will your bladder hold? Can you sneak out to pee and possibly buy something to drink without the lecturer noticing? And while you decide whether you want cola or mineral water, will you miss somet
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Math teacher had a stop watch. Only 90%-100% correct quizzes counted. The tension ran
Not just Brain Age (Score:1)
I say (Score:1)
I like my games boring... (Score:2)
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Silly Guy (Score:3, Insightful)
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Anti-Drama... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Anti-Drama... (Score:5, Insightful)
About as Anti-Drama as Hollywood is (Score:5, Insightful)
I sincerely hope this isn't taken as a troll, but George W Bush himself always came across to me as someone playing a movie-style president for an electorate brought up on the same thing. Not just the gung-ho mentality, but the whole package.
Maybe I'm wrong, but my gut reaction is that you're so soaked in this that you can't see it. Or are you implying that US society is much *less* influenced by images in popular culture than others are?
And you have an aversion to abstraction? Advertising and branding, the red-blood of All-American capitalism *is* abstraction of values. How else does a simple tick-shaped "swoosh" symbol, or some pretty white writing on a red background saying "Coca Cola" have so much meaning? It's not that Nike goods or Coca Cola are so much better than the competition; it's that they have so much imagery associated with them. It's bordering on hyperreality [wikipedia.org].
I appreciate that there's been a move to "reality" TV in recent years, but if your reality shows are anything like ours in the UK, then they're contrived situations set up like a lab experiment designed to provoke drama and edited to play out like a real-life soap.
If reality TV reflects anything, it's the increasingly artificial and contrived direction modern society is moving towards, everyone's life played out as 15 minutes of TV fame.
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Only a naive fool believes that those who oppose him are simply victims of propaganda. Propaganda is all around us, no one makes a value judgment without being greatly influenced by various artistic mediums.
And your point in relation to what I said is...?
I pointed out that the assertion "the US [..] has this sort of aversion to drama and abstraction" was demonstrably incorrect. No more, no less. However, being influenced by popular culture- which I would hesitate to call propaganda (with the exception of advertising, which mostly is)- is not the same thing.
That's not to say that I think it's necessarily healthy in large doses, but you're coming close to strawman territory there.
People you are dangerous for the simple reason you have no respect for the decisions people make.
As I said, you read too mu
Movie analogy. (Score:2)
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Seinfeld is the greatest TV show ever??? In which miserable reality is that true?
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Fantasy Sells Systems. PERIOD. (Score:3, Insightful)
The fact is, Fantastic games are what sell systems. I begged for my first PlayStation (one) thanks to Spyro the Dragon, and had Sega been on the ball a little more, NiGHTS would've let 'em sell quite a few more systems too. Brain Age is an okay game, but when I reach for my DS, I have Elite Beat Agents, Mario, Sonic, Cooking Mama, FF3... you get where I'm going with this.
Brain Age is a good secondary game as a 'pick up and play' offering. It's NOT what made the DS a success.
Zonk: (Score:2, Funny)
boring, or mundane? (Score:5, Insightful)
So should we stop writing fantasy?
How about we just keep writing fantasy, and also let people interested in straight-fiction just read straight-fiction. We can also have mysteries, educational books, sci-fi, horror, philosophy, etc.
Why criticize a genre to "help" a medium? Computer games are a medium. Fantasy games are a genre in that medium. If there's great response to brain age: make more games like it. There's no more reason to cut fantasy than there would be to cut the fantasy section of a bookstore.
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No. There can be only one!
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It depends on the game. Halo I love, so I've beaten it 5 or 6 times. But most FPS games I beat once or twice and that's it. Similarly most books I read once and that's it, but I've read the Lord of the Rings at least 5 or 6 times in my life as well. Civ III, on the other hand, you don't really beat in that sense. So your point is taken.
However unless replay value is really relevant to the discussion,
It works for Animal Crossing (Score:1)
Like Skate or Die? Or The Simpsons? Or The Sims? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hello Ian and welcome to the games industry! (You noob.)
You might want to look up games such as The Sims, all the various Simpsons spin-offs or even Skate or Die or Paperboy from a previous generation. (i.e., its been done many, many times before.)
Gah (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, yeah, I know... kind of like this post.
Make Money Slowly by Gold Farming! (Score:5, Funny)
If you want "boring", there's a place for you in Gold Farming. [wikipedia.org]
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But the problem is that I eventually level out and I have to go find the next book to keep getting better. But the book cost money. So I have to go find money. And then I need to up my real level to read the book... So off I go on a quest to level up.
Thereby destroying my tranquil, boring game.
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I find it ideal for when an ex rings up to boast or complain about her current boyfriend. I can pay attention to the fishing instead and just make occassional non-committal noises when appropriate. Before WoW I used to put the phone down and wander off when I couldn't take it anymore and come back a minute or two later - but with WoW I can be rude wihout appearing to be! It also works with long phone calls from relatives that give you all th
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Ordinary != Boring (Score:5, Insightful)
It's absolutely ordinary for there to be shootings in South Central LA, but it's not boring.
To say Brain Age is boring because the tasks are ordinary displays stupidity and a lack of vocabulary. Rather simple vocabulary, I might add.
Also, the link is to the third page of the story, which is where Brain Age is discussed, but it is bad form.
Enough about the stupidity of anonymous cowards and their story submissions, on to where I talk shit about the article!
The article is just pathetic. "television is so familiar, it's not even startling to think about television programming produced solely to discuss other media forms." This is in response to a comment about TV shows about making movies. But there are movies about making things, and on this planet we call them documentaries. This lack of ability to stop and notice reality pervades the article, which is split into three pages to garner ad impressions, but has little enough content to have been on one page of this size.
His summary (which is not actually a summary - this not being an essay, but a meandering rant) follows: "we should want games to be more boring. Not just some games, we should want many of them, maybe even most of them to be boring, so that the ones that are not can become the Casablancas of our future medium." What he seems to be saying here is that we should want games to be crap, so that the non-crap can look even better by comparison.
Say it with me: mundane does not equal boring. Sure, most things which are mundane are also boring. But then there's sex.
Re:Ordinary != Boring (Score:4, Insightful)
Here are some more statements he could have made that would grab people's attention:
"Games with animals turn gamers to bestiality"
"Wii games should cost $500"
"Gamers might contract gonnorhea from the PS3"
"One-Dimensional Games: An untapped market"
"GTA4 should not have cars in it."
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Tell that to my girlfr-- I mean: Hear, hear!
*Extremely* wrong headline (Score:5, Interesting)
This title is just wrong. Zonk, is there any way we could please change it?
Mundane [answers.com] means commonplace, everyday, ordinary. Boring means uninteresting. Not the same. The article is not saying that games should be less interesting -- the article is saying that games could do well to apply more to real life, and to real skills (I.E. Smooth Moves having players balance brooms on their hands).
I'm all for making games more mundane -- I think it's a great idea, and it's a phenomenal idea for making games ultimately more fun. If "fun" is about learning patterns (as Raph Koster [theoryoffun.com] posits), then it only makes sense to build off of patterns that are found in real life (hence why driving games are so much fun).
However, I'm [b]not[/b] in support of making the games boring.
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Our system has detected that you are using an unlicenced copy of the game "First Life". Please discontinue use of "First Life" or it may be subjected to automatic termination in accordance with the EULA.
Remember, you are always welcome to try out our shareware version "First Gestation" for free for up to nine months.
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Everybody thinks different things are boring.
I like to read books about physics but I could care less the name of Madonna's husband/boyfriend.
To me the fundamental structure of all of creation is more exciting than a celebrity's love life.
But let's face it I am in the minority.
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I can already see the next headline for a topic regarding the teaching of evolution in schools:
"Should Our Tax Money Sponsor Condemning Our Children to Eternal Suffering In Hell?"
I will address this question (Score:4, Funny)
I don't agree with Gamasutra's assessment (Score:2, Insightful)
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Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
How About (Score:3, Insightful)
Look they are people out there who are all over ass sweat on the body they just shot. Great. Too bad ass sweat doesn't actually make the game good.
Given X the total time from start to finish how much of X is not on something relating to actually game play experience?
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So are you saying that ass sweat doesn't add to the game in any fashion? Instead of hiring artists, they should hire a ton of designers to work on one game? Because you do know, those are 2 different jobs. The designer isn't like "Damn, I wish I didn't have to animate these characters because then I could focus on making the game good." Graphic and good gameplay aren't mutually exclusive. I hear the same debate in the visual effects field too - "Oh, put
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I think we just need more attention on small game designers - while Epic can make good games they're not going to put massive amounts of
Marketing challenge ... "We made it extra boring" (Score:5, Funny)
Accounting: The Game
Paperwork IV: The Redemption
Diablo III: Excel spreadsheet edition
1080p Crossword Puzzles
Starcraft 2: Zerg Human Resources
Grand Theft Auto V: Insurance Adjuster
Half Life 3: You actually work out the half life of a given element
Re:Marketing challenge ... "We made it extra borin (Score:2)
http://www.kudosgame.com/ [kudosgame.com]
It does really well. Maybe that's because you can also be a skateboarding molecular biologist who arrests street criminals using kung fu. Who knows?
Re:Marketing challenge ... "We made it extra borin (Score:2)
Re:Marketing challenge ... "We made it extra borin (Score:2)
TSP report writer
Re:Marketing challenge ... "We made it extra borin (Score:2)
Some yes... (Score:2)
Missing the point (Score:5, Insightful)
Most gamers would reply, "that's different!" But is it really? If you're not all that interested in video games, living out a fantasy like that might not be interesting. In fact, it may very well feel like a chore. (
(As a side note, this is why I stopped playing first person shooters save for those that take place in fictional universes that interest me. e.g. Elite Forces. FPS games were becoming a repetitive task of "avoid the zombie attacks, shoot the bad guys, avoid the zombie attacks, shoot the bad guys." Online gameplay was marginally more interesting with, "shoot other guy, get shot by someone else, shoot the other guy, get shot by someone else." But I digress.)
Generally speaking, when you view or interact with entertainment you are looking to invoke an emotional connection of some sort. A highly developed sense for a particular form of entertainment allows one to appreciate complex forms of it more readily than others. Meanwhile, some just want forms that evoke a simple reaction to a simple form of that entertainment.
To use music as an example, Beethoven can evoke a lot of emotion in those who have developed an ear for classical music and enjoy such music. Others prefer a more direct approach of a shouted out emotional state as found in Death Metal Rock. Still others are looking for a quick attack/release cycle of emotions as found in pop and techno music. (Ever notice the 90's techno always dropped the background music for a few seconds at the height of the song? It's a cheap trick, but it has serious emotional and cognitive impact on the listener.)
Taking this back to video games, it's not the chores themselves that make Brain Age interesting. It's being placed in a situation where you have to react and think quickly. Simple math and puzzles are used as the vehicle for such tests. For some players, the pressure being placed on them to get a better score is reward in of itself. This is similar to the reward one gets by blasting through a shoot-em'up while avoiding the gazillion+1 enemies that are hogging the screen space. Pressure is put on you to perform, and a certain reward is felt when you achieve a good performance level. One can even be proud of their achievement by sharing their score with others. In the old days, this meant entering your initials into the arcade machine. For Brain Age, this means having a normalized and easily relatable score to brag to your friends about.
My end point is that these games aren't "boring" at all. They are just as interactive as other forms of gaming. The only difference is in the audience they appeal to. Just as country music appeals to some while death metal rock appeals to others. It takes all kinds.
Yes, but... (Score:2)
Why does it seem ... (Score:2)
Games (Score:2)
Usually people that are into jet-lee movies aren't into Woody Allen movies and people into Gershwin aren't into 50cent.
I find Britney Spear songs train-wrecks, but a lot of people must like it seen how many million albuns she's sold. Same with Pokemon and most Nintendo games.
Make several diferent games in several genres targetting different audiences.
Arcade vs Hardcore PC/Console gameplay (Score:2, Interesting)
Unfortunately that may only apply to 5-10% of the gaming public. What Nintendo has been doing is making games for everyone else. What nintendo has done is gone to make games for casual players, non-traditional gamers (like brainage puzzles), and cross-age groups. Sony doesn't
Article is completely wrong (Score:4, Interesting)
The author clearly shows his lack of understanding in this quote: It is a game of chores, really, not of challenges. Games like speed arithmetic and number tracing actually become maddeningly dull after only a short time, but many players persist because they want to have the sensation of keeping their minds sharp. [...] [It] makes people feel as though they are improving their long term mental health. It satisfies a mundane need for personal upkeep.
I played Brain Age daily until I unlocked the final challenge-dealie (I think it's the one where you say the numbers instead of write them?). Then I stopped. Along the way, it was nice to see improvement in each challenge over time, but after a while I would plateau, and that game would stop being fun to me. I kept playing so that I could unlock the other games, as they would offer me new situations to learn. If all the games had been available to me at the start, I would have stopped playing far earlier, and that unlock system is one of the great ideas that other games of Brain Age's ilk have adopted. I would love to know how many people keep playing regularily after all challenges are unlocked and they are not seeing significant improvements.
Of course, all of this is not something I thought consciously as I was playing. I realized it after reading A Theory of Fun for Game Design [theoryoffun.com]. A great read, and really has made me think twice about why I enjoy some games and not others.
that would certainly explian success of WoW (Score:2)
no way (Score:2)
If I want boring and mundane I'll log into life 2.0.
More boring? Of course not. But... (Score:3, Insightful)
Games should go back to being games, rather than video based reincarnations of choose-your-own-adventure books or 120 hour movies with semi-interactive cut scenes (by which I mean the actual game play in between the cinematics). Games have put eye/ear candy above game play and plot for the last decade.
My new games (Score:2)
Xtreme Standing in Line at the DMV
Supermarket Shopping Ultra
Malfunctioning Soda Machine Assault Omega
Dog Poop Scooping, Tournament Edition
Name That Smell, North Jersey Edition ... and my flagship product
Goofing of at Work II: Slashdot Boogaloo
In Brainage, you level up! (Score:3, Insightful)
In most RPGs, you get better primarily by gaining levels or acquiring new equipment. In Zelda, you get a new boomerang or a better sword. What's unique about brain age is that rather than doing better because you got the +10K dagger of Pwnage, your skills actually improve. You become better at adding and lower your "brain age". It's just like an RPG; you gain rated levels based on how you perform, but the focus is on your performing better, rather than giving your character special skills or equipment that allow them to perform better in your stead.
I can't think of too many other games where the focus is on self-improvement rather than avatar-improvement (or just simply a high score).
what I'd like to see (Score:2)
RPG's especially don't need spectacular graphics, and rarely use them well. Typically, square's games in particular have become fairly boring and cumbersome as the games have stopped being about gameplay and plot, and turned more and more into an engine for showing off a bunch of artwork and cinematics. Very few games in the genre (except maybe the zelda games, and to a lesser degree FFXII) used the transition to
Fictional Realties... (Score:2)
I've thought about this a lot lately and I've come to a conclusion that is essentially in agreement with the article.
I don't really want a lot of fictional reality in my games these days. There was a time when I did, (paper & early computer RPGs) but I've since decided that many of these games take up way too much time for no real payoff. I think they can be as bad a drug habit for some folks and I am somewhat disturbed by the proliferation of MMORPGs. Don't get me wrong, there's a place for these g
The real issue... (Score:2)
Solitaire? (Score:2)
Poorly expressed concept (Score:3, Insightful)
Probably a better way to put it is,
"Should there be more games that are cerebral or contemplative rather than action oriented"
Put that way, the answer is probably yes. There are a lot of activities that people enjoy that are not excitement-oriented. And there have always been games that tapped into this kind of entertainment: board games, puzzle games, virtual pets, classic adventure games, resource management games, weird abstract games. Games like Brain Age reveal that this category is hardly mined out. But the factors that make such games enjoyable tend to be more unique and difficult to anticipate than, say, first person shooters, so they will probably always remain a minor component of the market.
What a comparison! (Score:2)
And if anybody cared to check playing population, they would have found say 5-10% overlap of said demographics.
To start playing Brain Age, you need no previous knowledge. You can take it any time for five minute ride. And since it's portable DS game it can be always with you.
Halo is shooter. To many normal people games about going around and killing others are ... repugnant.
There 2 types of games (Score:3, Insightful)
2.Games for people who want to have challenge.(e.g. Skill based games)
Bith tyopes have some fun,and some challenge but game focuses on something singular.
Bogus question... (Score:2)
Should Games Be...?
The first 3 words are completely bogus. Asking what games should be, or stating what games should be is nonsensical. It makes as much sense as asking what a book should be about. Games, like books are a subjective experience based on whatever the creators make them into; which may or may not be what the creators intended.
How a bout easier? (Score:2)
I'm not a great gamer, but it would be nice if I could just even play the game.
Re:Let the market decide (Score:5, Insightful)
Thank you Captain Obvious. Since the author of the article wasn't suggesting that such games be given special government funding, or that people be forced to play them at gunpoint, then the market will decide anyway.
He's quite entitled to make suggestions, companies are free to ignore them, or consumers free to not buy them. You seem to be implying that anything outside some artificially restricted concept of "The Market" is not valid; i.e. software houses decide what to produce based only on their own opinions/research and consumers either buy or don't.
Chanting "let the market decide" like a mantra isn't meaningful or insightful; it's redundant.
Re:Let the market decide (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Let the market decide (Score:4, Interesting)
I think this is also taking it a bit far. I shall rephrase the question:
With popular franchise games becoming more engrossing at each subsequent release, would game publishers be better able to serve their existing customers (or, alternatively, expand the market for a particular game) by making it less exciting and immersive?
The answer here seems to be "Games like that are for weenies. We don't want any, but hey - if the publishers want to bang their heads against the wall, more power to 'em." I, for one, would like to see *larger* RPG and adventure game worlds, with more casual gameplay that doesn't require me to perform upkeep on my in-game knowledge and dexterity. Principally, the skill curve and knowledge curve should be very shallow as the game progresses. That is, I should be able to pick up the game after a hiatus and enjoy it without being frustrated or studying a notebook or having to replay the lower levels. That kind of boring could appeal to me.
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Not everybody has the time to get into a game like Uru. Far more people have time to get lost in WoW. Most anybody can find the time to play Wii Sports on occasion (not that it isn't immersive, it's j
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"The Last Starfighter"
I think it was on Showtime everyday for several years while I was growing up. I have similar fantasies that all of my work in Kobo Deluxe will pay off. I'm on level 647.
Re:Let the market decide (Score:5, Insightful)
Brain Age is not a popular game because it is boring or because it has such a broad appeal. It is popular because it is good. Just like Zelda and Halo (NIMHO, but that isn't the point). Good games will always be popular. Bad games will go the way of Diakatana.
When it comes to games, the point is make something that is quality work. If it is, it will find a market to appeal to. Again, look back a number of weeks [slashdot.org] when Geometry Wars was being talked about. Is that game boring? No. It is simple, but the real key, it is really fun. Hence, why it is so popular.
I will say this, if a Game "Magazine/web site" is making this article, I really have to question their credibility.
RonB
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Of course it's a well-designed game. That explains little.
billg says (Score:2)
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Bullshit.
What will "take off" is what is backed by the biggest capital, which in turn buys ads and "reviews." Without this, nothing takes off.
Do you even know what games are on the market today? Just take a look: three or four genres, each clogged with half a dozen clones vying for the same shelf space. And these clones are likely to be sequels, which means they are even less original than their last iteration.
Recycling the same
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This is unlikely to lead to a lot of the people who bought Brain Age also buying Castelvania. (Well, I bought both, but
MMOs boring? (Score:2, Insightful)
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That's why when I play a game it's so I can do something I don't do in real life (driving extremely fast, shooting people, blowing things up, driving fast and shooting people while running over other people, commanding a group and having them kill people and blow things up for me, etc).
p.s.(I forgot to mention flying around while shooting people and blowing things up.)