The Importance of Lunch 475
theodp writes "I've been on teams that eat together every day,' writes Joel-on-Software Spolsky, 'and it's awesome. I've been on teams that don't, and lunch every day is, at best, lonely.' Spolsky is firmly in the camp that believes where and with whom we eat lunch is a much bigger deal than most people care to admit. 'There's a lot of stuff that's accidental about Fog Creek and Stack Exchange,' he concludes, 'but lunch is not one of them. Ten years ago Michael and I set out with the rather ambitious goal of making a great place to work. Eating together is a critical part of what it means to be human and what it means to have a humane workplace, and that's been a part of our values from day one.'"
Lunchbreaks (Score:5, Insightful)
Personally... I'd rather spend that hour working and leave an hour earlier.
Generally I'm at work to make money and not to make friends. I know every company does the rah-rah, we're awesome, "team-building", let's all be friends so we work better together. But I'd rather just be professional, get my work done, and spend my free time how I see fit.
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Teambuilding is fine when the rest of your team aren't cunts.
When they are...well, let me put it this way. If I "had" to eat lunch with my direct co-worker here every day, I'd either put a bullet in his head or my own. It is bad enough that I have to work with a moron, the last thing I want to do is be sociable with a moron.
We work together fine (which really means I handle that which is my responsibility, and he handles that which is his responsibility)...but a team we be not.
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Re:Lunchbreaks (Score:4, Insightful)
Face it, Pal. There are indeed at least ten morons for every one person who has a clue. Look around you. Your family. Your neighbors. Your coworkers. People you bump into. You can't always recognize them at first meeting, but as you get to know them, chances are they are idiots.
Alright, now. Let me address those who are NOT complete idiots. I have different sets of experiences. I lived at sea for 5 years, for instance. I served in the military for 8 years, total. That's a big chunk of life, even at my age. I've worked construction for another big chunk of my life. I've drive truck for another big part of my life. Guess what? NO ONE at work shares any of those experiences. Their interests, their experiences, their lives are so different from my own - in general, I'm just not interested in much that they have to say.
I socialize with my immediate boss, to some extent, because we happen to share some life experience. (She's an old broad, we remember a lot of the same things from our childhoods, despite growing up about 1500 miles apart.) I socialize to a limited extent with a few of the guys. I don't want to go out drinking with them, but we'll bullshit together. They have mostly lived a rougher life than the protected little weenies who work around us. We can find some stuff in common.
The rest? I should socialize for the sake of being a nice guy? I mean, really. What do I have in common with some weenie who graduated from school twenty years after me, and has never done anythng but work production? I mean, nothing. No travel, no military, no scuba diving, no camping or exploring the outback of nowhere, nothing that I find exciting. Oh, I could talk tech with them - but they don't know tech from horse carriages. No common experience, nothing to talk about.
I could probably build a bridge if I wanted to talk sports, but sports bore me to fucking tears. Women? Phhht. If there's nothing else to discuss, that even gets old after awhile.
So, to hell with socializing. I'll be nice at work, and withhold my general contempt for all the do-nothings that I work with. And, I'll continue being my asocial self. Not antisocial, but asocial. I get enough companionship at home, thank you.
Re:Lunchbreaks (Score:5, Insightful)
No common experience, nothing to talk about.
There's your fallacy.
You have lots to talk about with those people, precisely because of the experiences you don't have in common.
There seems to be a lot of very boring people in this thread. By that I mean, they're only interested in spending time with others who share the same experiences, the same opinions, same political views, and have no interest in anyone who might have something different to say.
If you don't want any exchanges with your coworkers other than the minimum transfer of data required to complete your job, that is your right. I have no issues with that.
But don't pretend your attitude is due to some deficiency in those around you or a lack of common experience. You don't want to talk with the people you work with because of YOU, not because of them.
I'll get off your lawn now.
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While people's political opinions may be shallow, I assure you - there's plenty to them that isn't. They may have traveled. They may have watched someone die. They may have been in prison. They may have written a children's book. They may breed geckos.
Perhaps your concern is, ultimately, that your own experiences are limited... and any conversation beyond mass media and jokes will reveal it.
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"You're an asshat."
No, sonny, I'm an asshole. Asshats are generally 12 to 30 years old. I'm senior to any asshat. And, that's MISTER Asshole to you.
I do appreciate the near recognition, though. Now, get off the lawn.
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Your attitude seems a bit poor too. Some people are task orientated while others are people orientated. It is very difficult for task orientated people to see why they are not more valued than the others who seem to goof off all day and yet get paid at least the same or maybe even more. I have been through this myself and it took a change of job and a couple of good books to realize what was going on. You should be more aware of the different types of people.
I think you're creating a false dichotomy here.. I'm very task-oriented when it comes to work, but yet I still go out with my coworkers every day for lunch (even when I pack a lunch, I take it with me). Why? Because in a good team you need to know your teammates strengths and weaknesses. You might have one guy on a team that you write off as a worthless coder, only to find that he's great with designing UIs. Or you might find out that the smartass senior developer isn't such a smartass when he realizes
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You do realize you're talking to yourself right? There's no one else here.
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Jimmy, John, you guys aren't fooling anyone. We see the looks you two give each other when you think no one is looking. We notice how you always leave work together. The company doesn't have a policy against office romance, but what you did in the copy room last week...that's just disgusting.
-Management
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The point of the company trying to make everyone 'best buddies' is so they don't have a problem with working on time that should have been theirs. I don't want to spend any more time than I have to at work.
Re:Lunchbreaks (Score:5, Insightful)
but what lunch time I do take, I like to have it quietly alone away from work and coworkers.
Same here I've always enjoyed the solitude of a snack and a paper for my lunches, it never ceases to infuriate me when you become obligated to take part in company lunches/doughnut parties/etc, etc. I've had jobs seriously impacted by my lack of a desire to attend christmas parties or company birthday parties for people I don't even know.
It's funny how you can be expected to put forth all this excitement, commitment and seeming loyalty towards companies that would just as soon lay you off if it was amiable for them.
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It's funny how you can be expected to put forth all this excitement, commitment and seeming loyalty towards companies that would just as soon lay you off if it was amiable for them.
Very much this.
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My impression of Fog Freek software was that they tried really hard to find good people, and then KEEP them. So, they're a little different from most companies, in that while I'm sure Joel would fire people if he felt it necessary, he's picky enough about who he takes (and opinionated enough about the importance (and difficulty) of hiring Awesome People) that I doubt many things would lead to someone being fired or laid off there. It's probably cheaper for him to keep someone until they get more business t
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I'm not big on the social aspect, but I really, really like food. That sort of makes the decision easy for me when it comes to taking part in those sort of things...
Well, cooking IS the second oldest art form (Score:3)
Right after the only other art form where you are allowed to put something inside your audience.
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Dentistry?
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I just grab the food or whatever and head back to my desk to eat while I read /. :)
Re:Lunchbreaks (Score:5, Interesting)
This is classic (Score:5, Interesting)
True introverts can't understand true extroverts and vice versa.
An introvert gains energy during solo moments and looses it during social gatherings. An extrovert is drained of energy alone and gains it during social events.
So, a company meeting will leave the introvert drained and the extrovert charged up. Even if the meeting goes well, what happens AFTERwards is the real issue. The extrovert will be rearing to go and act on all the things discussed. The introvert wants to take a nap.
It doesn't even matter much when you do it. In the evening the introvert will be exhausted from the day of social interaction and be REALLY exhausted afterwards, while the extrovert has no where to spent all his pent up energy. Do it early and your introvert will be drained during the working day.
So, get rid of introverts? Pity they are often more stable, less easy to corrupt and in any case, most developers are introverts.
Most managers are extroverts. See the problem?
It is even worse for developers who like to get into the zone. No good with a manager who needs constant social interaction.
Just check, how many coders do you know with a cat vs managers with a dog?
Re:Lunchbreaks (Score:5, Insightful)
You make it sound like your work is a reality tv show ("I'm not here to make friends, I'm here to win.")
If you don't think good personal relationships will make for a better team, then I'm glad you don't work with me.
Re:Lunchbreaks (Score:5, Insightful)
You can maintain good relationships with coworkers without having to go to happy hours and play lazer tag and drive go-karts with them.
And, without being forced to basically make lunch into a meeting.
Exactly. (Score:2)
Basically, the assumption is that they because you work at the same place, in similar jobs, you're going to have similar non-work interests.
Sorry, I don't.
So either the lunch meetings are extensions of weekly meetings where work topics are re-hashed or there is a lot of awkward silence.
Of course it is ALWAYS nice when you have a nice, homogenous group with the same political / religious / etc beliefs and feel free to discuss them at lunch. Everyone always agrees.
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I do enjoy work. If the only thing that makes your job enjoyable is socializing with your coworkers, then you need to get a new job.
Different people handle situations differently. You enjoy socializing and it helps you unwind. It doesn't help me. At best it's boring and extends my workday by an extra 30-60 minutes, which is time I would be rather spending with my real friends. At worst it creates more stress thus requiring more unwind time leaving even less quality time for my friends and family.
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I agree with both of your points, but I think you're missing the whole point of the article.
Let me give you an example. A few years ago I joined a team where most people stayed around for lunch (some lived close enough to go have lunch at home, or their spouses worked close enough to go eat with them, etc). So a lot of the time we'd have 5-10 people from a couple projects eating lunch together, but with one unbreakable rule: no talking about work. People would actually stop you if you brought up anything wo
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Re:Lunchbreaks (Score:4, Insightful)
Lunchbreaks not optional in many states (Score:2)
Personally... I'd rather spend that hour working and leave an hour earlier.
Your state laws may not allow that option. Even if its your idea and you *really* want to do so your employer can get into a lot of trouble. In some states the presumption is that you are being coerced by the employer (or fellow employees) and no statement made by you will change that presumption. Don't get annoyed with your employer if they say you must take a meal break away from your desk.
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Your state laws may not allow that option
if you're an exempt employee, I'm not aware of any law that would force you to take a lunch break. Your employer can tell you to work through breakfast lunch and dinner, and your only recourse is to quit.
If you're non-exempt, in California you have to take a 30 minute (unpaid) lunch [ehow.com] whether you want to or not. (there are a few exceptions that would allow an on-duty meal break)
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That might get you out of the mandatory lunch, but it probably won't get you out of the office an hour early every day.
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So? If the state laws don't allow it, ignore them. Similar laws exist in my country and I never ever would lunch with my coworkers. It's on par with ignoring speed limits, everybody does it and the odds of being caught are even lower. What are they going to do? Inspection? Well, go on lunch if that ever happens. If asked, you took lunch outside in the park.
I have no problem lying about this. I mean, they can't prove it's not true.
The problem with ignoring labor laws is not the happy content employees are are willing to put in extra time and other things necessary to just "get the job done".
The problem is when you end up with a disgruntled employee that wants to make things bad for the company - they can make a labor complaint, show that the the manager required all 20 people on the team to participate in group lunches, and then suddenly the employer is faced with paying 2 years of overtime to all 20 team members.
This is why HR depar
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Yeah...I'm largely the same way, but it is a tough choice. I've been on teams where we'd usually have one day a week where most of us would go eat together some
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If there are women in the group...geez, the calculators come out, and they try to figure what everyone had to the penny, and usually the tip is short....
Does anyone else find this to be the case?
I can only speak from what my mom has told me but here goes
Generally, women eat less than men and drink less than as well. She's had some real skivers on her team that would order a big ribeye steak and cognac while she orders a salad and fruit juice. Then when the check arrives, knowing damn well its a 30/70 split, they want to go half. In essence, she feels she is being forced to subsidize her colleague's food.
And that is when the calculator comes out
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>>>I'm at work to make money and not to make friends.
And besides - you can do the "let's be friends" stuff ON WORK TIME rather than personal time. Like when you're in the lab at 3pm, and telling jokes/stories with coworkers.
Personal time is exactly that - Time for me - to catch up on other stuff like the latest Asimov's Science Fiction magazine, or reading my email, or checking slashdot
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Re:Lunchbreaks (Score:5, Funny)
Take some time, eat an organic banana and unsalted, organic almonds. Perhaps some curried tofu made from organic, non-GMO soybeans. There has been a few articles in the Journal of Chiropractic Medicine in which Chiropractors have found that patients who routinely skip lunch have many more (and more serious) subluxations which cause poor health.
Subluxations are, to be blunt, where all a person's ill health will start. Eliminate those and enjoy good health!
Take care!
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The official Journal of Quackery recommends tofu and "organic" almonds! Huzzah! I'm pretty sure all the almonds I've ever eaten have been organic, since I don't recall eating a silicon-based one.
So the root of all human suffering is sublaxations, huh. Here I thought it was unicorn farts. Can you check my thetan levels while you're at it?
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"Chiropractors have found in every disease that is supposed to be contagious, a cause in the spine. In the spinal column we will find a subluxation that corresponds to every type of disease. If we had one hundred cases of small-pox, I can prove to you where, in one, you will find a subluxation and you will find the same conditions in the other ninety-nine. I adjust one and return his functions to normal... . There is no contagious disease... . There is no infection... . There is a cause internal to man that
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I bring my lunch and eat it at my desk whilst Slashdotting.
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There has been a few articles in the Journal of Chiropractic Medicine
No doubt.
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That attitude/behavior causes half of your day to be a required but not desired activity. Personally I'd prefer to desire or at least not mind going to work.
Further such an attitude hinders your productivity (unless you are both customer, CEO, and sole employee). Perhaps you don't care since you just want to get paid. Though I can't help but wonder if people with that kind of attitude might not be first on the list for layoffs and low on priority for raises.
Re:Lunchbreaks (Score:5, Informative)
might not be first on the list for layoffs and low on priority for raises.
Yup. It shouldn't matter... but it does. When the money runs short... it's a lot easier to let bill, who while not rude, is not exactly friendly go than to let tom, who we were just laughing with at lunch, go. Ted is also at the forefront of your mind when some opportunity comes up as well.
I guess it really depends on office culture. Where I work, we don't really go out to lunch as a massive team... but most people do kind of have a small group they "hang out with". These little groups in some cases are the team... in other cases spread across teams and departments... and it's not set in stone or official or anything, it just kind of happens that way. People with similar interests kind of "find each other" and you see the same groups going out for coffee breaks and so forth.
Also, shop talk is generally rare. It happens.. but way short of an unpaid meeting.
On a personal level, I'd say the whole "I'm here to work, not make friends" attitude has always seemed kind of weird to me. You spend a good chunk of your life at work.. why not make it more fun. I'm not saying you have to hang out with coworkers every weekend .. but mixing personal and work life a little bit has made the day go a lot nicer for me.
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Because under IDEAL conditions your co-workers would have been selected for their capability to perform the job. Not because they had the same religious / political / etc opinions as you.
IF someone else who you work with has the same opinions as you then it is great if you can become friends.
But to put the focus on that means that the focus is not on getting the work done so you can get out an live your non-work life. Which is a problem.
Yep. And if Bill and Tom had the same skill levels and such, then that would one thing.
But in my experience (your experience may differ) it is the more social person who lacks the technical skills. Simply based upon personality type. The stereotype of the nerd who spends his waking hours hacking on his computer instead of attending parties is a stereotype for a reason.
Really? Are you really so content with where you are and what you know? There's no room for growth?
None of my coworkers have been selected based on "religious / political / etc opinions" but they have been selected based on their skills. Which may be different from my skills. So there may be something I can learn from that person, even if their interests are different than mine.
So it may be worth my while to get to know the other people in my office. And lunch is a good time to get to know people I don
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In my experience, the correlation isn't between lacking social skills and having great technical skills... it's between lacking social skills and THINKING that you have great technical skills. One of the best and most brilliant developers / architects I've ever known was also an amazing story teller with an incredible sense of humor. One of the least skilled guys I've known who was head of software development was a sociopath who thought he was a god.
Yes, I've also known the classic guys who had few socia
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I don't mind coming to work. I have great professional relationships with the people around me.
There is no hindrance to my work. Further, the time that would otherwise be lost to bland socialization can be spent honing skills or actually producing things.
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Indeed. On the days that I do eat lunch, I just end up feeling lethargic for the rest of the afternoon. It's a hassle to plan a lunch and an expense to buy a lunch. So I just forget about it and have a cup of coffee.
Re:Lunchbreaks (Score:4, Interesting)
I think this misses the point. It's not about making friends, its about using the tool of how we eat lunch to improve relationships between people and thus make them better contributors. You'll work better with people who are your friends.
Also, you're a lucky man indeed if your manager pushes you to have friends to improve your performance rather than, say, berating you in front of your coworkers.
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I've always found work friendships to be pretty strong. It
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Exce
Eat lunch together daily (Score:4, Insightful)
I once spoke to a CEO of a successful startup in Texas. He attributed a large part of their success to the fact that the team ate lunch together every day. They sold the company to a larger company for big bucks, success by some measure at least.
Yay! Anecdotes! (Score:5, Insightful)
That's AWESOME!
And if he had attributed the success to keeping a picture of a porcupine on his desk, would it be as relevant?
The key point is that he sold the company to a larger company.
He did not buy the larger company.
It all comes down to how you define "success".
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If he attributed the success to a picture of a porcupine he kept on his desk, chances are he wouldn't be CEO of anything more than Padded Room, Ltd.
Whoooooosh! (Score:3)
I think you missed the point.
The point was that the CEO can (and often does) attribute his "success" (success being defined by him) to whatever he WANTS to based upon his pre-existing bias.
And if he fails, that doesn't mean that he was wrong. It just means that something else cancelled out his great idea. At least in his mind.
Success in business usually comes do
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Baa is the greatest miniature giant space porcupine in the universe! How dare you insult him so! This behaviour must not continue. Feel the burning stare of my porcupine and change your ways.
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Sure; eating lunch together every day gets an extra chunk of time for discussing company business out of every person on the staff each day. Of course it's a great idea from the perspective of being good for the company. So is working an extra hour each day for the same salary, which is what company lunches are essentially doing.
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So is working an extra hour each day for the same salary, which is what company lunches are essentially doing.
And, even if the company paid for the meal, it's likely they'd come out ahead, as lunch for most professionals doesn't cost as much as they would get paid for that same amount of time (especially with a "no alcohol" policy, which wouldn't be unreasonable on the company dime).
Whoops (Score:2)
Old hat (Score:5, Funny)
Now, we can't have the workers getting all uppity because I allow them to eat, so this trough is installed roughly level with the floor, so they have to bow at my feet while they nourish themselves.
It's a wonderful place for me to work.
Regards,
Mark Z.
What about (Score:2)
I don't think team lunches should be mandatory. Sometimes you want to clear your head, go for a walk and have some time to yourself. You may also want to check out cute girls in the food court, but I digress. Anyway, just because Joel likes his lunches that way doesn't mean it's the best thing for everyone. Where I work, they provide lunch for those who want it. Some people eat lunch in the rec room, chat, maybe play a game of table tennis or pool. Others take the supplied lunch to their desk to eat.
Extrovert (Score:5, Insightful)
Again with people forcing extrovert-ism on the world. Why can't people *in general* be accepting of introverts who like to, and gain their energy from, being alone? I find it is an excellent time to put my thoughts together and come up with new ideas while away from my desk.
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The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to Tech Startups (Score:5, Funny)
For instance, the first phase is characterized by the question "How can we make payroll?", the second by the question "Why do we need VC?", and the third by the question "Where shall we have lunch?"
It should be the goal of every startup company to reach the third stage.
I'd eat lunch with all my esteemed colleagues (Score:2)
but there's no room at my desk.
Aaah, who am I kidding? There's plenty of room at my desk for all none of my team-mates.
Teamwork. We've heard of it.
workers vs owners (Score:5, Insightful)
If you want to make a "great place to work" in the sense that those you work with are more than resources to exploit, build a cooperative, partnership or mutual.
If you want to throw bones to your more easily won over employees, safe in the knowledge that you can fire them whenever necessary, pontificate on the importance of eating lunch with them.
Spoken like a true extrovert (Score:5, Insightful)
"I’ve been on teams that eat together every day, and it’s awesome."
"...but you’ll also see a distressing number of loners eating by themselves..."
" Maybe they’re reading a book or checking their email while they eat so they don’t look sad."
"Maybe they genuinely don’t like people and they’re happy to eat alone. Or maybe they’re just telling you that."
This is something I see a lot in workplaces: Extroverted people just not understanding the mind of introverted people. Honestly I'm surprised a person with experience in the tech field (I assume) is falling into this trap.
Not everyone enjoys being around and talking to other people all day long. Maybe it's because they're shy, maybe it's because they don't like their co-workers, maybe it's because they have some kind of disorder, or maybe it's just their natural personality. I gotta be honest, there's no way I'd last at that place, because if my boss/coworkers were on my case every day to come eat with them, I'd be miserable. It's fine if the group wants to go out/gather once in a while, but not every day. Most days I just want to go have an hour where I can be left to myself and not have to talk to anyone else. Wonder how many otherwise good employees he's run off with this policy?
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The first situation is lunch-time, the second one is feeding time.
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I agree. Why is it such a bad thing to enjoy a bit of peace and solitude during the day? Excuse me for not giving a shit about your weekend plans, office gossip, or who sounded the best on American Idol last night.
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I'm an extrovert (I generally recharge by hanging out with people) and I find myself making excuses from time to time for not going to lunch with groups of people. I deal with so many people in person for work related stuff even I need some quiet time sometimes. Usually not to recharge but to just get some of my own stuff done. Sometimes eating at my desk and reading the interwebs for an hour is just what I need.
Re:Spoken like a true extrovert (Score:5, Insightful)
Indeed. I don't like taking lunch because it means I have to stay here longer, but when I do take lunch, I don't want to have to bullshit and listen to idiotic stories from people who have nothing insightful, interesting or, often, even truthful to say. I don't care about their latest trip to Florida, or what new restaurant they discovered, or what the weather is like. And that's just from "normal" people. I also don't want to hear about your WoW character, or your latest raid, or what armor set you collected. FFS, I just want to read Slashdot in peace.
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You're not interested in the inane chit chat of people with nothing interesting to say, yet you read slashdot?
So you really have no issue with bullshit and idiotic stories, you'd just rather read it from strangers than hear it from people you see everyday.
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Nonsense, I don't think I'm more interesting than they are; I just have enough sense to realize that and not inflict my co-workers with details of my kid's batting average or some other such crap. When it comes to work, I'm a professional team player and I'm more than willing to listen to other people's advice. But lunch isn't about work, it's about what I do with my free time, and for some reason, people like you can't wrap your minds around that. I'm not at work to make friends, I'm at work to fund my
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And How! The reason lunch is mandated is generally so the individual gets a break. For an extroverted person, a break means visiting with others. For an introverted person (introverted in the sense that she gets her energy from being along, and finds being with others draining, not that she is "shy") a break means being left alone to recharge. Pretty insulting for an extrovert to steal away all the introvert's time to recharge because he doesn't understand that the introverts are different than he is.
Okay (Score:2)
Greetings, I'm an introvert (Score:2)
Hello, myself and roughly 25% of the population are introverts. We can find group activities draining, and would prefer to pick our social activities with that in mind.
-jeff
Re:Greetings, I'm an introvert (Score:5, Insightful)
There are introverted ways to enjoy a group lunch. Eating, listening, and perhaps occasionally participating in a discussion when it's relevant. A group lunch isn't a cocktail party, and just being at the table reminds people you are part of the team and keeps you informed on what other people are doing, having trouble with, etc. The information that gets revealed there can give you opportunities to be more helpful and needed in the team - which will contribute both to your own success and that of the group.
I am in introvert who has learned the importance of lunch, among other things. Introversion doesn't need to become solipsism or self-absorption.
You've just described communication failure. (Score:2)
No. That means that your primary channel of communication if broken.
So you're attempting to compensate by using a secondary or tertiary communication channel to exchange work-related information.
Or just save everyone's time and bring donuts to the daily / weekly meetings and PRETEND that you're at lunch. It's easier. It's al
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There are also introverted ways to get out of a group lunch. You obviously can't have it your way every day but there's nothing wrong with saying "I really appreciate that you thought of me but right now I just need some quiet time to recharge". And just like that you've shown sincere appreciation for being included and politely rejected the invitation.
Hanging out with the extroverts is a balancing act, you have to find that middle ground between mental peace and maintaining strong relationships, but bein
Is lunch hour paid time? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Is lunch hour paid time? (Score:5, Informative)
At Fog Creek (Joel's company), I believe they have catered lunches every day. He's not the sort of manager who orders people to have lunch together, he's the sort of manager who provides lunch for everyone who wants it in order to encourage people to have lunch together.
It's very much a matter of carrots and sticks, which the Slashdot summary doesn't clarify at all.
Time Is An Illusion (Score:3)
Lunchtime doubly so. Therefore anyone you have lunch with is merely a figment of your imagination.
Don't talk about work... (Score:5, Insightful)
Where I work, a bunch of us sit together for lunch, from my team and people who used to be on the team but went to work on other things.
Talking about work is banned. Lunch is a time to crack jokes, talk about hobbies, outside interest and to put the world to rights.
Taking a complete break from work for half to one hour is very good for concentration and problem-solving. It's amazing how frequently seemingly difficult problems become easily solvable after a proper lunch break.
Some people are fine with half an hour, but I need at least an hour and some strong coffee afterwards. For the last 20-30 minutes, I read the news and have a good laugh at the ranting on slashdot.
Those social bonds formed at lunch time are important. It's easier to go and speak to those people about work matters later and get their advice when you're friendly with them and you know how their minds work.
And it's just nice to have a few friends in the place.
Re: (Score:3)
Have lunch with them, be friendly, but remember that the work world is a shark tank.
There is an element of truth in what you say, but it's far too easy to become paranoid and far too cynical thinking like that.
There is one important person never to become friends with (or to think that you're friends with) and that's your boss, supervisor, line manager, whatever.
I sit next to my line manager frequently at lunch time. He's a stereotypical unfriendly, uncommunicative and selfish computer type. That's OK.
Only Office Environments (Score:2)
I worked at KMART for a time when I was freshly graduated from school (BS Computer Science) and was unable to find any work.
3rd shift ate lunch together every night, but we were all still working at KMART.
Although this idea is more geared towards office/professional work just wanted to throw that experience out there.
Great in theory... (Score:2)
I have lunch with a few co-workers twice a week, and regularly get guilty stares the other three days.
One, I'm paying off student loans and a home mortgage on a 15 year. Right now my sources of entertainment include whatever I can find at Goodwill and the used book store. I simply don't have the free cash to eat out 5 days a week, no matter how much it helps morale.
Two, after graduating I went back into super-disciplined mode, hit the gym, ate properly, and lost 40 pounds. I have no desire to go backwar
Lunch Smunch (Score:3)
Having said that, I do often take lunches with coworkers, but only when it's convenient, and I actually like them.
My team has an interesting alternative to lunch, which is far more constructive in my mind. Around 2pm, any of us in the group can call for a "yo" break if we need it. Then we all go stand around and shoot the breeze for 15-30 minutes outside the building. This allows us to socialize, blow off some steam, and get our minds focused again. It is well worth the company time because by around 2pm, you are already need a break to clear the cobwebs.
Motivation (Score:3)
Discussions like this explain a lot about what motivates employees in various organizations. And the cultures of these organizations.
Different people are motivated by different things. Study Maslow's hierarchy of needs [wikipedia.org]. Some people seek friends. Some seek accomplishment, the esteem of others or themselves, or creativity and problem solving for its own sake. I think groups who place too much emphasis on socialization attract people somewhat lower on this motivational scale. And in many cases, this is a conscious management strategy. Keep people down on the ladder, so to speak, and they are easier to manage.* Excluding people from social groups, particularly if they are needy in this area is an effective tool.
* Due to some economic circumstances, I found myself able to retire very comfortably at the age of 28. Nevertheless, I continued to work. Not for the money, but just for the sake of accomplishing something. Unfortunately, this put me at odds with quite a few managers who sought to control their employees with the paycheck. It never worked on me and, as a result, I never lasted very long working for them. Even if my job performance was judged exemplary.
He doesn't make any sense. (Score:2)
Who's this guy? (Score:4, Insightful)
Joel-on-Software Spolsky promotes himself as an authority on software development, but he only runs a tiny company that makes applications for a relatively simple problem. It's still a tiny company, after over a decade of operation. I'd rather hear from the people who managed the software for Voyager. Or the vehicle stabilization system for a modern car. Or the radio inside the iPhone. (I know the guy who headed that team; he waited until the iPhone shipped, and then quit Apple in disgust with having to work for Steve Jobs.) Or the file system that keeps Google working even when machines fail.
Re:Who's this guy? (Score:5, Informative)
Need a break from the day (Score:2)
However, I need break from time to time and lunch is it for me. It's a time that I can let my mind wander and recharge my batteries for the afternoon's activities. Not that I don't go to lunch with co-workers. I do. I just can't imagine doing it every single da
Don't compartmentalize socialization (Score:2)
I think the general idea that teams of people who get along work better is obviously sound, but it's not caused by sitting together on a bench with a box of Cheez-its. People who like each other's company are more likely to want to eat together, IF that's something they'd normally do anyway.
For example, I am on the border of introversion and extroversion, according to most personality inventories. I enjoy being with people, but I also need time alone. I have never, ever, ever enjoyed eating with other peopl
People talk to each other? (Score:3)
Where do you people work that you can actually TALK to someone? These days people have their faces buried in their smartphones 24/7 sending LOLS and Youtubes to each other. I mean, this goes beyond even work. It goes to bars, camping etc. No one actually talks to each other anymore.
Attn Introverts: being an extrovert is a job skill (Score:4, Insightful)
In today's job market you should be more aware than ever that even in technical positions, it's often who you know, not what you know that gets you the job, that lets you keep the job, that keeps you over the cut-off line when there's layoffs, that has you in line for raises, that has you spearheading the neat new technologies, that has non-technical folks deferring to you.
I know the idea of a code ninja who silently fixes problems with nary a word might seem romantic. I get it when people say they need personal time for introspection and analysis. There are many people out there who simply work better by themselves.
Just keep in mind that your skills need to be exponentially better than those of your peers if you're going to stand out by product/efficiency/quality alone. The guy who keeps asking you for help and self-promotes his achievements is going to end up with a raise while your name is going to pop up at the budget meetings as a potential cut after several years of 'meets expectations' evaluations.
So, do yourself a favor, find some quiet time and think about it.
Another good advice (Score:3)
who pays? (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
The tone of TFA is abhorrent. "Ooh, he must be so unhappy because he has something worthwhile to do instead of talking to me. I know I'd shrivel up and die if I couldn't get an ego boost from my comrades."
One thing that should tip you off about the TFA is the mention of long cafeteria-style tables. He doesn't want a happy family of people who work well together. He just wants to LOOK like a happy family of people who work well together.
He specifically mentions the long table as the alternative to round tables. At a long table, you can get scores of people at the same table, but each can really only interact with the closest 5 people.
At a round table, you may only get 10 people to a table, but everyone at
Re: (Score:2)
agreed, I think if I had work with that on a daily basis I would seriously consider a lawsuit.
I'd consider the use of high explosives.
Re: (Score:2)
I'd consider the use of high explosives.
I've found the explosives that aren't doing drugs are more reliable.