Python Trademark Filer Ignorant of Python? 261
WebMink writes "Is it possible that the CEO of the company that's trying to file a trademark on 'Python' was unaware of Python's importance as a programming technology? That's what he claims — despite running a hosting company that's trying to break into cloud computing, where Python is used extensively. Still, he also regards the Python Software Foundation as a hostile American company and thinks that getting attention from half the world's geeks is a DDoS. From the article: '[The CEO, Tim Poultney,] confirmed that he'd not involved any technical staff in the decisions he'd made about the Python product brand, and told me he regretted that as it would probably have helped him understand the likely reaction to his trademark challenge. ... He said he now understood how offended the global developer community are and told me there was obviously only one outcome that was now possible.'"
Resignation? (Score:3)
Resignation?
Re:Resignation? (Score:5, Funny)
seppuku
Re:Resignation? (Score:2)
seppuku
How can this comment not get modded up? I actually laughed.
Re:Resignation? (Score:5, Funny)
Renaming his company to some unique name that others couldn't possibly have thought of, like oh... Apache, or Turbo Gears
Re:Resignation? (Score:2)
Snakes on a Plane!
They could be Pythons....
Re:Resignation? (Score:3)
I heard the Internet is a series of tubes traversed by snakes carrying messages.
Re:Resignation? (Score:3)
Re:Resignation? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Resignation? (Score:5, Funny)
I was thinking that he could shorten Pobox Hosting Provider to PHP.
It's not like he hasn't used abbreviations before - the company was formerly known as PIS.
Re:Resignation? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'd like to point out that there is another Pobox [pobox.com] out there, which is a US company (pobox.com), that is apparently not affiliated with this British "Pobox" company.
From their blog:
=snip=
We support @ThePSF [twitter.com] in their fight for Python trademarks in the EU. @pobox [twitter.com] is *not* http://pobox.co.uk [t.co]. Learn more: http://pyfound.blogspot.nl/2013/02/python-trademark-at-risk-in-europe-we.html⦠[t.co]
=end snip=
I'm not affiliated with either company. I've used pobox.com for email forwarding for about 17 years though, which is one thing that made me investigate this, as the UK company's claim of having used 'python' for 17 years seemed to me like about how long the US company had been around.
Re:Resignation? (Score:2)
iApple?
New Company Names (Score:3)
Slashdot should create a poll for a new company name. If they don't have enought brains to use a search engine they need all the help we can give them.
To keep the snake motif I would suggest the following:
DumbAsp
RattlerBrains
Mambasement
Adder-all
Krait and Barefaced
Re:Resignation? (Score:5, Funny)
Clearly it would be a big foot coming down from the sky to flatten him.
Re:Resignation? (Score:2)
Clearly it would be a big foot coming down from the sky to flatten him.
Or a winged python?
Re:Resignation? (Score:5, Funny)
Resignation?
Sue EVERYONE, with the inevitable end result of infinite monies forever. Clearly.
who let the CEO of SCO on here.
Company lacks credibility (Score:2, Insightful)
As a young wannabe programmer, I feel that this company has to be pretty clueless to be in the computing business and not know about one of the most popular programming languages today. The fact that it uses the largely meaningless and sensationalistic "cloud computing" buzzword also harms its credibility.
Re:Company lacks credibility (Score:5, Insightful)
The fact that it uses the largely meaningless and sensationalistic "cloud computing" buzzword also harms its credibility.
That's a hard case to make nowadays, whether we like it or not. Not having heard of Python is ridiculous though.
Re:Company lacks credibility (Score:5, Insightful)
Much though I despise the term, "cloud computing" is not meaningless or even sensationalistic, and there are some very big companies who have built their success on cloud computing. It is, perhaps, over-hyped and watered down, and it's undeniably a buzzword. It's also pretty misunderstood, as you yourself are evidence of (the basic concept is simply "hosted computing services"). However, to say you think a company lacks credibility because they speak of cloud computing is, frankly, idiotic.
The first part of your post makes sense, though. I could understand a company that wasn't deeply involved with computer software might not be aware of a programming language, even a common one, although you'd think they might make at least a trivial web search. However, for a software-focused company to be unaware of Python's importance is, frankly, unbelievable. This guy is just trying to pull whatever damage control he can.
Re:Company lacks credibility (Score:5, Informative)
Ironically, you misdescribed cloud computing. It's pay as you go hosted clustered computing services. Each of these things has been around and many combinations of these things have been tried before, and really most scientific computing had become like this before anyone was calling it cloud computing.
Re:Company lacks credibility (Score:2)
Cloud computing definitely doesn't have to be pay-as-you-go. The pay-as-you-go hosted computing services are certainly banner examples of "cloud computing" but they are by no means the only thing that can be accurately described as "cloud computing".
Re:Company lacks credibility (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, that leads to a things like deciding that mobile websites are "a big new thing" (which happened last week) and not understanding responsive design despite us explaining it to him several times. At this point we're implementing responsive design and will be selling it as if it was a separate mobile website (complete with a second contract and everything) because that's easier than convincing the boss that it's just a bit of CSS that we can include and exclude at our convenience. The second contract was a business decision made without any input from the developers and we just have to make it happen.
I'm already looking forward to someone canceling their regular contract but wanting to keep their "mobile website". Bonus points if they expect their "mobile website" to remain at the same domain as their new, externally-hosted website. But hey, mobile websites are the future.
So yeah, cluelessness in your field of business is very much possible and is not antithetical to success.
Re:Company lacks credibility (Score:5, Funny)
Never knock cloud computing. Whilst I am thinking through strategies to crack problems I will often stare at the clouds out my window. This is neither meaningless nor sensationalist.
The nice thing about cloud computing is you can do it anywhere where you have a clear view of the sky. It can sometimes work with just photographs of the sky.
Re:Company lacks credibility (Score:2)
The nice thing about cloud computing is you can do it anywhere where you have a clear view of the sky.
Not necessarily. Some places, you won't see a cloud at all for most of the year. Death Valley and Bouvet Island being two examples. Beijing being another.
Re:Company lacks credibility (Score:2)
Re:Company lacks credibility (Score:2)
If you can't see the clouds, try for the crowds.
Hanlon's razor (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hanlon's razor (Score:2)
More realistically, (Score:5, Insightful)
Folly is the cloak of knavery
One outcome possible? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:One outcome possible? (Score:5, Funny)
The article seems to end on a cliffhanger. What outcome is the article writer referring to? There are many that spring to mind.
Obviously the Python Software Foundation should rename the language after a lesser known snake. Maybe Mamusi or Atractaspis.
Re: One outcome possible? (Score:3, Funny)
They could name it after an asp.
Re:One outcome possible? (Score:4, Informative)
Adder [wikipedia.org] would be a more appropriate substitution, surely.
Re:One outcome possible? (Score:2)
If only they were named after a snake... renaming it to Bean may be more appropriate. Just no idea what to do with all the spam and eggs references in the documentation, in such a situation.
Re:One outcome possible? (Score:2)
They should rename it to something actually related to the current name, like Monty.
Re:One outcome possible? (Score:2)
Re:One outcome possible? (Score:3)
Re:One outcome possible? (Score:4, Funny)
He said he now understood how offended the global developer community are and told me there was obviously only one outcome that was now possible. He then removed a automatic pistol which had been concealed beneath his desk, held it under his chin and stared into oblivion. "Tell my children I love them... and that I am sorry", he muttered before squeezing the trigger.
Well maybe not... it just seemed such a dramatic thing to say.
Re:One outcome possible? (Score:2, Funny)
Obligatory xkcd [xkcd.com].
Re:One outcome possible? (Score:2)
If only I had mod points. Thanks for the laugh.
How to not make a high-profile company (Score:5, Insightful)
If I was registering a new company, the last thing I would want to give my company or servers etc is a name that already pulls up millions of pages in a simple web search.
It just sounds like somebody was clueless and doesn't even know how people find services on the internet these days.
Re:How to not make a high-profile company (Score:2)
with enough adwords dollars, he could still dominate that keyword.
Re:How to not make a high-profile company (Score:2)
Only you can kill SEO with fire.
Re:How to not make a high-profile company (Score:3)
If I was registering a new company, the last thing I would want to give my company or servers etc is a name that already pulls up millions of pages in a simple web search.
It just sounds like somebody was clueless and doesn't even know how people find services on the internet these days.
Clueless management? Clueless CEO? Tell me it isn't so!
Re:How to not make a high-profile company (Score:2)
step 2 - make a public outcry claiming stupidity and asking forgiveness
step 3 - change company name, profit!
Re:How to not make a high-profile company (Score:2)
step 3.0 - announce that you are changing the name
step 3.1 - sell the company
step 3.2 - profit
step 3.3 - new owner deals with fallout.
do it (Score:4, Funny)
Re:do it (Score:2)
What do reptiles have to do with Python?
Re:do it (Score:2)
The Real WTF (Score:5, Insightful)
[The CEO, Tim Poultney,] confirmed that he'd not involved any technical staff in the decisions he'd made about the Python product brand
Seriously? I know a lot of CEOs have more branding experience than many developers but making single-minded decisions about your company's future, with no input from those who are likely to be affected most by those decisions, does not sound like the thinking of a leader.
Re:The Real WTF (Score:3)
The more people involved; the greater the cost of making the decision. Branding is mostly a marketing thing, so they probably involved the marketing department, but not engineering.
What legitimate reason would there be to go ask Engineers to approve a marketing decision, wasting their time and energy? The CEO probably didn't think of one, so he didn't ask... it probably would have been fine, if the proper research had been done -- you don't need an engineer to identify Python as a bad name, you need maybe 15 minutes with Google:)
Re:The Real WTF (Score:2)
Surely they had lawyers pouring over it... didn't *they* notice?
Re:The Real WTF (Score:2)
... because the engineering department would have brought up such a potential issue, before the CEO made himself and his company look like a bunch of fools?
Re:The Real WTF (Score:2)
Look at the Apple Store situation [slashdot.org]. Think about SEO and how difficult it is going to be to get a the top of a page.The security company that is 30 years old isn't on the top of the page in my browser. And the snake is on the second page. Again, who is going to invest with SEO challenges like that?
Unless they planned to put forth the cash to decimate the indirect competition.
Re:The Real WTF (Score:2)
Re:The Real WTF (Score:2)
Fair point, but would it really be that hard for them to have asked?
Re:The Real WTF (Score:2)
Seriously? I know a lot of CEOs have more branding experience than many developers but making single-minded decisions about your company's future, with no input from those who are likely to be affected most by those decisions, does not sound like the thinking of a leader.
Single mindedness may be a stretch.
There's only one outcome that is now possible (Score:5, Funny)
CEO, Tim Poultney: All right, we'll call it a draw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4 [youtube.com]
An attorney is ignorant (Score:2)
An attorney is ignorant. No news here. Move along.
More evidence that CEOs aren't human... (Score:2)
and instead should be legally and scientifically classified as some sort of vermin.
Re:More evidence that CEOs aren't human... (Score:2)
and instead should be legally and scientifically classified as some sort of vermin.
Which of course are food for pythons!!
Python compiler (Score:3)
The Python compiler is the native code compiler used in (likely) the most popular Common Lisp implementation on the planet, SBCL. It was originally part of CMUCL, which SBCL initially forked from, and predated "that other scripting language".
It's not that hard to coexist with conflicting names, if you're not an idiot. Obviously, that's not the case with this CEO, and Tim Poultney's name will be linked to this asinine attempt at overreach for the foreseeable future.
Re:Python compiler (Score:2)
It is hard to co-exist when you're dealing with registered trademarks. If you don't actively defend it, you lose it.
Better Yet (Score:2)
Re:Better Yet (Score:3)
Not only that, but a registered trademark only applies to the country it's registered in. To officially register your trademark world-wide, you'd need to pay 193 different registration fees in god-only-knows how many different forms of currency.
Fortunately, there are all sorts of treaties about recognizing other countries' trademarks, and the US doesn't require registration (though it can make life easier if there's a challenge).
Basically, though, the fact that python-the-language has been using that name for decades in the EU should make it untrademarkable by anyone else, at least for anything related to computer software. (Python brand t-shirts will remain unaffected.) It would confuse consumers.
he's right (Score:2)
We do want him off the internet and it is a DDoS.
What a piece of...
You poke the snake (Score:2)
Poke the snake and get bitten.
American? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd say the fact that he thinks Python-the-language is something American is proof that he's pretty much completely unaware of it. Unless Holland was annexed by the US recently, while I wasn't looking, I think it's Dutch. :)
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Funny)
No kidding. EVERYONE who's ANYONE knows the Cloud run on Ruby.
Re:Seriously? (Score:2)
My "cloud" is running on perl. Has been for over 12 years now. Last major change to the code was adding support to return data in JSON as well as XML a few years ago. Now get off meh lawn.
Re:Seriously? (Score:2, Informative)
Dude, you're an idiot.
If you google the word "python" THE TOP FOUR HITS ARE ALL ABOUT THE PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE. After that, we have one Wikipedia article on the snake, and then FOUR MORE ABOUT THE PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE.
You're telling me you wouldn't even google the fucking name of a trademark you're going to use just to see what else comes up?!!?
When eight of the top nine results for a one-word search of your proposed trademark ALL refer to ONE thing ... maybe you should look into it.
Re:Seriously? (Score:2)
Google Search had only just launched in September 1997, and this guy initially started using the term as far back as that.
Of course, Python existed as a programming language for an additional 6 years before that, so really, this is just about somebody not doing a little bit of homework.
Re:Seriously? (Score:2)
There were search engines before Google. Lycos was even pretty decent by pre-Google standards; other people had other preferences.
No, I don't know how well-known Python (the language) was back then, and I don't know whether ordinary people would have thought "I should do a web search on that" in those days, but I'm pretty sure the information would have been available. Hell, when was python.org registered? The copyright notice at the bottom begins with 1990.
Re:Seriously? (Score:2)
Hotbot says EXTERMINATE
Of course, it was remarkably easy to make an unfortunate typo whilst trying to land at hotbot.com...
Re:Seriously? (Score:4, Funny)
Not 95% of hosting companies (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Not 95% of hosting companies (Score:4, Interesting)
Nah it's more like the owner of a car dealership who has never heard of a camshaft.
Re:Not 95% of hosting companies (Score:2)
Not even that. The vast majority of cars these days have camshafts. The vast majority of websites aren't built using Python.
Re:Not 95% of hosting companies (Score:2)
Fine. Carburetor.
Re:Not 95% of hosting companies (Score:2)
Depends on the company. Look at Louis Vincent Gerstner, Jr. and IBM. He was not a technology guy. He was a management guy having come from RJR Nabisco. Some may loathe what he did to parts of IBM as geeks, but IBM is still around and going strong. Same can't be said for Sun, SGI, DEC, and other major hardware competitors of that era. I'm getting to the age where my technical skills are fading in the marketplace but my ability to go between the geeks in development and non-technical Sr. management types has become ever more valuable. I have 20+ years of industry experience now on the tech side covering mostly systems admin, but also some programming, plus I have a degrees in business and law. (Not a practicing attorney though I've got the JD, but was brought into a start up right after law school that eventually was sold and I never sat for the bar exam. Can't say it's hurt me that much). What I've found is that a successful technology companies needs both the business side and tech side that can work together. Thing is, the most successful CEO I worked for came from the printing industry and was running a "Technology" company. He didn't understand how the technical things worked, didn't want to know, other than what resources were needed to make it work. What he did understand was things like cash flow management, budgeting, and how marketing vs sales worked. As COO the technical side of the house was left to me and the programmers and technical support staff. And it worked out very well.
Re:Seriously? (Score:2)
If I were to register a trademark for my new company, during the process of making up a name, the first thing I'd do is to use it as search query in Google to see if anyone may be using it. Wikipedia's entry on nr. 10 is the first that's not about the programming language.
So even if he didn't know about the programming language, it seems he hasn't done any research at all on the current use of the name, and whether there are any clashes with their intended use of the brand.
Mind that it is no problem to have two or more companies using the same trademark, as long as they are in separate markets (either geographically or different product range - think e.g. the iPhone mobile phone brand in Brazil, and Apple Music vs. Apple Computer).
Re:Seriously? (Score:2)
Well yes I know Google gives different results to different people, however if I get basically exclusively Python-the-programming-language results (which surprised me - I'd expect a bit more snakes), then it's hard to imagine that someone doing even basic research on a trademark can not find this.
Also as I understand they try to register the trademark now, after not having used it for many years. Trademarks do not come with expiry dates like patents or copyrights, however you may lose a trademark, even if registered, if you do not use it for some time (a few years is long enough to use that argument).
Python is not even 17 years old, nor is Google. If they had been using the Python trademark for all those 17 years it'd be theirs. And in that case they should've started complaining to Python the programming language long time ago.
Re:Seriously? (Score:5, Funny)
It is the equivalent of knowing how to speak English but being unaware that there is a geographic area called England.
So, a not-so-insignificant portion of America?
Re:Seriously? (Score:2)
So, a not-so-insignificant portion of America?
I think virtually Americans know there is a geographic area called England, but I also think many of them would be hard-pressed to point to it on a map with labels. We learn to mock England in elementary school, or I did anyway.
Re:Seriously? (Score:3)
Oh snap!
England and America are two countries separated by the same language.
possibly by Shaw
Re:Seriously? (Score:2)
What do you think Google would have said in October 1997 (over 15 years ago, perhaps that's where the 15 years comes from?) when the company in question registered python.co.uk? Nothing probably since they didn't call themselves Google until 1998.
Next, Perl ? (Score:4, Funny)
Anyone preparing to start a new company and name it "Perl" ?
Re:Next, Perl ? (Score:5, Funny)
Anyone preparing to start a new company and name it "Perl" ?
Perl can do anything Python can do!
Re:Next, Perl ? (Score:2)
Re:Next, Perl ? (Score:3)
Mynd you, møøse bites kan be pretty nasti...
Re:No, that is not possible (Score:5, Informative)
That's what happens when you let the suits run the companies.
Re:No, that is not possible (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No, that is not possible (Score:2)
Re:No, that is not possible (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not so sure about this. If you were running a corporation and only cared about the bottom line, the last thing you'd do is choose a high-risk action like getting into a trademark fight that you're not likely to win because you're trying to steal a trademark from an organization that's been using that same name for a long time and is in wide global usage by an extremely large number of people (developers), and which name is extremely well-known in the It industry. A true smart sociopath would not do such a thing. Only a clueless moron (possibly still a sociopath, but not a smart one), probably one who got his job solely because of his frat-buddy connections, would do something this dumb.
Re:No, that is not possible (Score:2)
Costumers are a pretty difficult to please group in general, it's not really that much of a reach.
Re:No, that is not possible (Score:4, Insightful)
No, they used to serve shareholders, now they serve themselves and if they have to fabricate information to justify their big fat bonuses, they will spin doctor a warthog's rectum into a silk clutch and a lovely pair of ear rings to do so. All you have to do is look at the long line of investors who've had their collective financial asses handed to them over the last 5 years while CEOs continue to samba all the way to the bank. I think nowadays, a Fortune 100 CEO would have to actually wear a Lady Gaga style meat suit made of skinned live babies, to even raise an eyebrow.
Re:No, that is not possible (Score:3)
My company has recently suffered a marketing takeover, we are well on our way to doing stupid things. Its a disgrace.
Re:only one outcome that was now possible. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:RUpy (Score:2)
How about a Ruby implementation written in Python? (Topaz)
http://topaz.readthedocs.org/en/latest/blog/announcing-topaz/ [readthedocs.org]
Re:RUpy (Score:2)
Only if you can shove Jython in there somehow...
Re:Anyone remember the theos-software.com debacle? (Score:2)
Not every /. reader knew / knows / was-interested / cared about OpenBSD back then but the back story is quite interesting:
http://www.theos.com/dispute.html [theos.com]