Arkansas Is Now the First State To Require That High Schools Teach Coding 211
A reader writes Arkansas will be implementing a new law that requires public high schools to offer classes in computer science starting in the 2015-16 school year. Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson, who signed the bill, believes it will provide "a workforce that's sure to attract businesses and jobs" to the state. $5 million of the governor's proposed budget will go towards this new program. For the districts incapable of of administering these classes due to lack of space or qualified teachers, the law has provisions for online courses to be offered through Virtual Arkansas. Although students will not be required to take computer science classes, the governor's goal is to give students the opportunity if they "want to take it." Presently, only one in 10 schools nationwide offer computer science classes. Not only will Arkansas teach these classes in every public high school and charter school serving upper grades, the courses will count towards the state's math graduation requirement as a further incentive for students. Training programs for teacher preparation will be available, but with the majority of the infrastructure already primed, the execution of this new law should hopefully be painless and seamless.
Maybe they should ... (Score:2, Insightful)
... do some other things first. [wallethub.com]
Arkansas is ranked 44.
Re:Maybe they should ... (Score:5, Insightful)
While this opportunity will not much effect the future of most Arkansan students, there will be some individual talents discovered that would've otherwise been overlooked.
Re: (Score:2)
There are no statistics that indicate a push for coders is a good idea.
Statistically, a negligible number of students could be affected in a positive way, but they have the tools trhey need to start learning from home.
The rest of the effort is just a an appeasement to the tax payers in a state rated 44th overall.
Coding will not save the Arkansas school system.
Re: (Score:2)
There are no statistics that indicate a push for coders is a good idea.
Sure, but if in this example, you are Arkansas, it would be to your advantage to fill as many of the coding jobs with Arkansans as humanly possible.
Statistically, a negligible number of students could be affected in a positive way, but they have the tools trhey need to start learning from home.
The rest of the effort is just a an appeasement to the tax payers in a state rated 44th overall.
Coding will not save the Arkansas school system.
The propensity to describe the number of students affected as negligible is in direct proportion to previously held belief sets.
Re: (Score:2)
If you are in the business of selling coding educational crap, it would be to your advantage to do so in Arkansas.
Statistically, their educational system sucks.
Re: (Score:2)
Schools are boredom generators which teach students to loathe and fear learning.
Putting coding in the schools is a great way to plow salt into the fields and demoralize the next generation of programmers.
Re: (Score:2)
No. He's right. It won't effect the future. The future will happen anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
Nothing can "effect" the future.
That's more of a philosophical statement than a quibble on grammar.
As a verb, effect means to cause, achieve or bring about. If you think nothing can "effect" the future, then basically you're a Calvinist.
A simple rule that I like to use: You can affect an effect, but you can't effect an affect unless you're in the same business as Meryl Streep and Robert de Niro.
Re:Maybe they should ... (Score:4, Insightful)
... do some other things first. [wallethub.com] Arkansas is ranked 44.
So your point is that instead of improving their schools, they should focus on improving their schools?
Re: (Score:2)
They should focus on improving their schools, not chasing novel fad trends.
Schools as they are teach kids to be good little manufacturing workers. That was actually a great idea 100 years ago, but now the "novel fad trend" has passed. Coding seems pretty likely to be a rewarding job skill for the next 100 years. As everything that can be automated becomes automated, there will be plenty of jobs developing that automation.
Re: (Score:2)
How does that fit with this? [slashdot.org]
The Robots That Will Put Coders Out of Work
Re: (Score:2)
Ha! That's been happening continuously since the beginning - better languages, better frameworks, etc. You almost never need to write a toolkit these days, or a script to refactor code in some simple way. I started with assembly, and for all Java's many problems, it's several times as productive. Turns out the need for programmers is mostly limited by budget, not by the universe of problems that need to be solved, and so more companies started hiring developers as the better tools made the payoff better
Re:Maybe they should ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe to get into those classes you need pre reqs... Like math...
An introductory programming class does not require more than grade school math. My local elementary school teaches programming to 4th graders using Scratch [mit.edu]. 90% of them "get it" with little difficulty. They understand loops, conditionals, subroutines, etc. After a few weeks most of them can design an algorithm to say, draw a pentagram, or find the 1000th prime number.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
But better would be to start with Pascal-like syntax where ":=" can be read as "becomes equal to" with the colon standing in for "becomes".
For the really high IQ kids it may not matter, but the average student who has trouble grasping the full implication of mathematic
Thank god they didn't drag gender or race (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I took a CS class in HS. In 1975.
Why do people see it as a radical new thing?
Re: (Score:2)
Into this. I'm glad they offer computer science classes. I would have taken one in high school if it was offered.
Indeed. Which I'm a bit flabbergasted to read "1 in 10" schools don't offer CS classes? On first read I thought that couldn't possibly be correct.
I was in high school 1986-1990, and we had a computer science class. Hell, we had Apple IIs in junior high, and we moved things around on the CRT using Logo programmong! Mind you, in high school we were instructed in BASIC and, of all things, Hypercard.. heh. Well we used Macintoshes.. IIe I think. But the class was there and it was a start for me.
Coding? (Score:4, Informative)
In germany Computer Science is a topic in "high school" since 30 years.
Actually I belonged to the first class in my federate state who took it.
Or do you mean with "mandatory" that it is mandatory for pupils? If so: that is retarded.
Re:Coding? (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Coding is not the solution ... (Score:5, Insightful)
... when the problem is corporate greed that supports CEOs and shareholders.
The middle class is collapsing and it's in a panic. They know where the money is going and they want to prepare their kids so they will be able to play on that turf.
There's no money in coding and, only a tiny percentage of kids have a natural aptitude for it.
The money grab supported by Congress, PACs, Big Business, and SCOTUS has reached a critical mass where there are two layers to American society:
1.) The haves
3.) The have-nots
There are no realistic cures, either ... certainly not teaching children to code.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, if you are lucky, talented and well-educated in CS, there is money on coding. Most people will never get there though and will just make it harder for those talented few to do so. In the end, everybody loses, as bad software is a massive drain on the economy.
Umm... (Score:5, Insightful)
At any rate I'm sure there's money in programming, because we wouldn't have so many businessman pushing people into it otherwise. If you see an education push into a field you can pretty much bet the reason is that somebody is tired of having to pay decent wages. The rich get supply and demand. I wish the working class did...
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Most business application code sucks badly. I am currently in the process of cleaning up after some Java hacks that cannot even read a requirements document. Sure, the code works, but it is slow, unreliable and has some security issues so massive that they would pull it from production if they could. That is what "average" programming skills produce: Software of negative worth, because it prevented something reasonable from being implemented.
Re:Coding is not the solution ... (Score:4, Insightful)
so much THIS!
we can continue to ignore the current class warfare (war on middle class) but 'educating' kids in a field that is being given away exclusively to foreigners (there is a trend and it shows no signs of slowing down) is doing more harm than good.
we have to have an honest talk in this country and decide what we want to do. do we care for our own people and encourage the middle class to rebuild itself? or do we take the republican view of 'I got mine, fark you!' and the have's continue to own the land and the have-nots continue to sink lower and lower in the system?
if we want the 'I got mine, fark you!' world, then lets admit it and we can adjust accordingly. everyone should then go to school for 'business admin' and be able to manage the overseas 'talent'. but lets be clear; if we are going to be a land of 'managers', we will sink into being less than a first or even 2nd world country. once we lose our tech edge, it will probably be taken over by other countries and that will be the end of our tech leadership, world-wide.
do we want to be a country of managers or do we want to take-back our country and keep our own thinking people employed?
we need to discuss this. but the dialog does not ever happen. why? the ceo's don't want to shine light on their evil little plans....
Re: (Score:2)
we need to discuss this. but the dialog does not ever happen. why? the ceo's don't want to shine light on their evil little plans....
The problem isn't just the CEOs. It's also the kids that have lost interest in education. Why should they ? They have pizza, computer games, cool shoes, and a parent that drives them everywhere.
Buses do not run at night or on Sundays (Score:2)
[Kids these days] have pizza, computer games, cool shoes, and a parent that drives them everywhere.
Without a parent to drive them, how else are they supposed to get anywhere? A lot of places have pitiful public transport or none at all.
Re: (Score:2)
You just described kids as "consumers."
Who collects from consumers?
CEOs and shareholders.
Re: (Score:2)
All schools should be offering this as a mandatory program because of that tiny percentage with the real aptitude. If you don't expose the kids to the concepts and let the kids discover whether they do have the aptitude, you will only get a percentage of that tiny percentage self-adopting programming.
If only one out of ten schools offers the opportunity, and I'll hazard a guess that most of the nine that don't offer it service poorer areas, then you're definitely got kids who have the mental mindset, but d
Re: (Score:2)
By your logic, every kid should be exposed to rigorous math, the violin, pharmaceutical sales, Christian evangelism ...
Why choose coding?
Re: (Score:2)
We already expose them to enough math to trigger those who have the aptitude. As for your other examples, by the Gods, those are absolute evils, especially the violin.
Joking aside, why not give them a similar level of exposure to the concepts of programming as we already to for math? It certainly beats some of the soft crap like "Life Skills" that gets pushed into the curricula.
Re: (Score:2)
"only a tiny percentage of kids have a natural aptitude for it."
You have it completely backwards: coding is like playing the guitar: nearly anyone can do it to a satisfactory level.
Re: (Score:2)
Mediocrity won't get you any gigs.
Hillbilly Hare in Java (Score:2)
"whop him low and whop him high, stick your finger in his eye, kick him in the shin, hit him in the head, hit him again if the critter ain't dead"
(I grew up in northwest Arkansas and am allowed to make this joke /= trolling)
Re: (Score:2)
Looking forward to squaredance instructions in public boolean
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/vid... [ebaumsworld.com]
Hey .. I have Mr. Bunny's Guide to ActiveX [mrbunny.com] and it actually was an informative book. I seriously learnt a lot about Active X and the Windows Registry when I first read it.
CS != Programming (Score:3)
A programming course can get you (maybe) a low-end, low-wage, no-future job, but that is it. Real CS skills are something else entirely.
We already have far too many bad coders, and far to many people that could be good at it not entering the field in the first place due to that and the low-wages, bad work environments and lacking career options that causes. Really, programming well is something that needs a lot of talent, skill and education. And we urgently need to restrict professional programming to those that have all that. Everything else is wasting a tremendous amount of time and money, due to multiplication effects inherent to software.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
30k would put you in the middle class here in AR. The cost of living here is low enough that your idea of a "low-wage, no-future" job is more than enough for the average Arkansan. I believe Arkansas is in a good position to be the place to "in-source" software and technology labor here in America. India's on the other side of the planet and there's a language and culture barrier. Send your work here please; you won't have any trouble understanding us, we're in a timezone you can tolerate, and we don't have
Re: (Score:2)
Urgh, 30k being in the middle is pretty bad. In that case, this may actually be a reasonable option. I agree on the benefits re-onshoring. Sure, low-end workers suck all over the world, but the way they suck is different and if you are from the same culture, you actually understand how to still get reasonable productivity from them.
Re: (Score:2)
Hey, I had to start at the bottom and work my way up. It's a lot easier to grok CS when you can code up a few functions in some language.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, CS people that cannot code (which are rampart, especially in the IT security field), are a real problem. I like to compare them to an MD that cannot put on a band-aid. Still, the CS education on top is needed in order to get actual understanding.
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps, but as a counter example, I never received any formal CS training and I'm a senior engineer at my company (SW architecture actually). Maybe that doesn't mean anything to you, but I do feel that I have the respect of hundreds of my coworkers and that I provide a valuable technical contribution to my company. (a fabless silicon vendor)
But that said, I read CS papers voraciously, and dig in deep in a few of the CS topics that interest me. (operating systems & concurrency)
Re: (Score:2)
School is there to give you a foundation (logical thinking) and an opportunity to try different things do you can decide to study them in depth later. Few people will go into programming jobs out of school, they will study it at a higher level first.
Re: (Score:2)
The OP called it "CS", which it is not. That is my complaint. Also, misrepresenting CS is a disservice to people, as they will not have a rational basis to decide on whether they want to go into CS or not.
Re: (Score:2)
Most programmers don't need computer science: when was the last time you really cared about the difference between a 2-3 tree and a red-black tree?
Re: (Score:2)
Come to think of it, just recently. (It was AVL vs. red-black though. I went with AVL, despite that being generally discouraged because of code complexity.) When you do advanced stuff, this knowledge and the skills and insights that come with it are make-or-beak. And I should point out that still about 70% of IT projects fail (where "fail" is budget overrun > 2x or not completing the project at all; in many other the results underperform to a serious degree).
The problem is that most programmers are produ
Re: CS != Programming (Score:2, Interesting)
The problem is that these are two separate jobs that should be done by separate people. Computer Science (theory) people are the one who develop architecture or new paradigms or languages. Once these new things exist, it's programmers who make them useful.
It's a symbiosis, not a competition.
Exposure is good, but... (Score:3)
Programming, for good or bad, is essential in the 21st century world. Students should be exposed to it, and learn a little bit about what it is, both to make a (slightly better) informed decision about careers and to have some appreciation of the role of coders in the economy.
But there seem to be a lot of people that think a student can take one high school course and have a guaranteed high-income career as a coder. This reveals a great ignorance and condescension on the part of the adults - I very much doubt if any of them also expect a high school law course or biology course will guarantee a successful career as a lawyer or doctor.
Re: (Score:2)
The two are closely related. I consider one to be an activity and the other a professional job. But unsurprisingly, I do program frequently when I'm working as a SW Engineer.
One Little Problem: Only 20 CS Teachers in AR (Score:2)
So, Arkansas Is Leading the Learn to Code Movement [wired.com]: "Currently, he [AR Governor Asa Hutchinson] says only about 20 teachers in the entire state are âoeproperly preparedâ to teach these new courses..."
Re: (Score:2)
Worked for me (Score:2)
My High School offered BASIC and Pascal in the 1990s, and I found it tremendously helpful. I'm a Software Engineer today, and I doubt if I would have gone in this career direction if it wasn't for the classes and mentor I found at my high school.
I hate this word, coding (Score:5, Insightful)
Part of year ten advanced math in 1980s (Score:2)
Not sure (Score:2)
One one hand, I am convinced school should teach basic skills and that there is a lot to improve there.
On the other hand, I came to computing because of that the exact same kind of initiative in the 80's. The difference with today may be that it was not so obvious to have access to a computer at that time.
Let's teach them about information first (Score:2)
We live in a world of information. So let us teach them about information first. What is information? How has it been encoded, stored, reproduced, processed and transmitted throughout history? What is encryption? How trustworthy is a source of information? How do we assess that?
It should definitely include some material about the concept of processing information by an algorithm. I am not sure that actual coding is really for everyone - but being literate about information definitely is.
Re:Excellent idea! (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
This is Slashdot. I read the title and posted my stupid comment.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Let's force everyone to learn how to code! We need more bad programmers!
You just don't get it do you? This is something that they have to do. They'd be the laughing stock of the country if they don't progress their unemployed masses to the modern economy!
How can Arkansas hold its head up high when all the popular states have bucket loads of unemployed programmers and they only have unemployed mechanics?
Re: (Score:2)
(I see what you did, there).
its sad that people 'in charge' seem so disconnected from reality. teaching 'programming' or even engineering to americans, with the hope and assumption that it will make them more marketable to the job force - I have one word for that. HA!
its an h1b market and will get worse and worse as time marches on. immigrants can and will work cheaper than americans, employers know this and employers know the reason for the h1b push.
locals will not compete. its already that way, in tec
Re: (Score:2)
you joked about auto mechanics, but those are skills that cannot be outsourced. you have to be present to do an engine swap. rajiv (I mean 'bob') can't do this over the phone. those will be the safer jobs, going forward. not high paying, but lets be honest: a constant paycheck is way better than being out of work for months at a time, every year or two.
Actually I was thinking about general mechanics and the demise of the manufacturing sector in the US. So yes, in one sense mechanics have been outsourced.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
its an h1b market and will get worse and worse as time marches on. immigrants can and will work cheaper than americans, employers know this and employers know the reason for the h1b push.
Total bullshit in every way. It's like you can't think beyond your hatred of brown people. Programming is a world market, and you compete with the world for jobs. Every H1B is a person who is paid more than they would be to do the very same job in their home country! And they pay US taxes, besides. The tragedy of the H1B program is that we should just be giving them green cards instead - we surely need to tax revenue in the coming years!
The nice thing is: there are still plenty of jobs world-wide. The
Having to move (Score:2)
while you may have to move away from Arkansas to where the jobs are
Which is why high schools need to start teaching home economics again. If people have to move away from parents before finding work, they'll need to learn to live on their own. And even then, where should a student fresh out of school find the cash to support himself during a move and job search?
Re: (Score:2)
Well, when a state school didn't come with a crushing debt burden, it was much less of an issue (compared to even 10 years ago it's nuts). My own solutions was to get that first job in my home city, paying peanuts, then once I had enough experience to be credible, move away. That first job wasn't so hard to get because everyone else was doing the same thing, so they were constantly hiring.
With you on the home economics. I was such a moron with money for almost the first 10 years.
Re: (Score:2)
its an h1b market
I see that repeated over and over, but I've never had trouble finding a job. I've worked (remotely) with contractors from Slovenia, China, and India, and the pattern that I've seen is that they generate more work for me fixing their broken code than they take away from me by doing the initial implementation. I'll worry when I stop seeing a coder with 10 years of experience making mistakes that I learned to avoid while I was still in school. Until that time, I can successfully compete on quality.
Re: (Score:2)
How can Arkansas hold its head up high when all the popular states have bucket loads of unemployed programmers and they only have unemployed mechanics?
1. Arkansas has more programmers per capita [bls.gov] than New York or California.
2. Programmers have less than half the unemployment rate of other workers.
Re: (Score:2)
1. Arkansas has more programmers per capita than New York or California.
2. Programmers have less than half the unemployment rate of other workers.
There you go, ruining a cheap joke with facts.
Re:Excellent idea! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Let's force everyone to learn how to code! We need more bad programmers!
After all, people who think they know something without really knowing anything are the best!
We need people who understand what computers are and what they are capable of. This is similar to how we teach biology to everyone even though most will never become doctors (or even bad doctors). We teach chemistry to everyone although most will never become physics. We teach literature to everyone even though many will never work at McDonald's or Starbucks.
Most people will never be doctors, but they will visit doctors, take medicines, deal with minor injuries at home, vote on issues related to impac
Re: (Score:2)
So your point is, that because only few people become novelists, we should skip teaching reading and writing in school?
Re: (Score:2)
Reading and writing are very useful skills you use on a daily basis, even if you're not writing novels. The ability to write computer programs is mostly useless, outside actually writing computer programs.
Re: That'll make everyone a programmer (Score:5, Insightful)
It teaches basic understanding of computer logic and how computers work in general. Most people have no clue. People should be more than just their jobs. A well rounded education is nice for some to have.
Re:That'll make everyone a programmer (Score:5, Insightful)
The ability to write computer programs is mostly useless, outside actually writing computer programs.
Nonsense. Learning computer programming teaches students to think logically and systematically, and you can't fake it, because your program either works or it doesn't. I know programming, and I know calculus. Knowing programming is about a thousand times more useful. If high schools teach calculus, they certainly should teach programming, at least as an elective.
Re: (Score:2)
Learning computer programming teaches students to think logically and systematically, and you can't fake it, because your program either works or it doesn't.
Hmmm. I distinctly remember a TA in my C+ class looking at my code and frowning, all the while I was saying "yea but it world dosent it?"
Re: (Score:2)
I distinctly remember a TA in my C+ class
You only got a C+? Maybe you should study harder.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Reading and writing are very useful skills you use on a daily basis, even if you're not writing novels. The ability to write computer programs is mostly useless, outside actually writing computer programs.
The ability to read and write is mostly useless, outside actually reading and writing.
All of us are computer operators. All our tasks can be made more efficient through automation. A batch script that extracts all lines from a CSV file containing the string "w00t" could save a single operator hours or days trying to do the same thing with search... copy... paste... search... copy... paste... search... copy... paste... search... copy... paste... search... [ad nauseam].
Writing novels is more analogous to comm
Re: (Score:2)
A batch script that extracts all lines from a CSV file containing the string "w00t" could save a single operator hours or days trying to do the same thing with search... copy... paste... search... copy... paste... search... copy... paste... search... copy... paste... search... [ad nauseam].
Who needs a batch script.
sed -i".bak" '/w00t/d' foo.csv
I don't even know sed syntax, all it took was a bit of googling. Looks similar to vim syntax which I am slightly more familiar with. Open up the file in vim and :g/w00t/d
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
So you're trying to prove that most people don't need to know who to write a program *by writing a program*?
I do not predict success for this endeavor.
Re: (Score:2)
So you're trying to prove that most people don't need to know who to write a program *by writing a program*?
Using the built in features of sed or vim, isn't "programming" "to me."
Now if you were talking about writing bash scripts, now that would be more akin to programming.. And personally I think knowing "scripting" would be more useful to more people than knowing "programming".
For example, if I wanted to check if list of websites were offline or not...I could open them in tabs.....or:
#!/bin/sh
for x in $(cat url_list.txt);
do
lynx -dump $x | grep -ol "Error 404";
d
Re: (Score:2)
Why is using the built in features of one runtime program but using the built in features of another runtime not programming? You can write things like the game arkanoid or the calculator dc for sed. Do they suddenly become non-programs?
Or how about your "Hello, World" with input:
#!/usr/bin/sed -f
1 i \
Input Name:
1 d
2 s/\(.*\)/Hello, \1/
q
(It requires an initial carriage return to get the prompt, because I'm not that good with sed.)
Re: (Score:2)
"The ability to write computer programs is mostly useless, outside actually writing computer programs."
For most people writing programs, the program is a tool used to make thing they are actually trying to sell; the program itself is not the product.
Re: (Score:2)
I went to public school in Arkansas in the 80's/early 90's. Learned BASIC on TRS-80, Apple ][e, and IBM PS/2s. We had them then too.
Re: (Score:2)
I went to public school in Arkansas in the 80's/early 90's. Learned BASIC on TRS-80, Apple ][e, and IBM PS/2s. We had them then too.
I said the same thing a few minutes ago. Didn't read all comments first. And I forgot to mention my TRS! Writing BASIC and saving code on a cassette tape.. what a thrill that was. Until one had to read it back into the computer.
A fond memory, and I wish I still had the BASIC code, I programmed a Star Trek "simulator" in BASIC, complete with big red photon torpedo pixels. I put simulator in quotes because there was no way to code in user input, via joystick or the like, so you just basically watched thi
Re: (Score:2)
And I forgot to mention my TRS!
First time replying to my own post, that I can remember. I typed TRS, but should have said TI-99.
Re: (Score:2)
I do agree that the education system is in need of an overhaul... But I don't think that the curriculum should be all that dif
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Even the first line of the summary says "offer classes". Nobody is being forced.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
"Presently, only one in 10 schools nationwide offer computer science classes."
From 1992-1996 I went to a tiny high school in the middle of nowhere surrounded by corn fields, and even I had 4 computer programming courses - granted only like 5-6 kids were in the 4th class, they almost canceled it on us.
Maybe they teach programming and computers in the Midwest but not elsewhere?
Re: (Score:2)
Agreed. I'm doubting that statistic of only 1 in 10 schools having such courses.
Me too. Could it be 1 in 10 of *all* schools, including elementary? It's gotta be. But it seems as if computer classes are way watered down from when I was a kid, if others' comments are to be believed.