Hire a Developer, Watch Them Work In Real-Time 100
New submitter alphamore writes: Live Coding, which is like Twitch for developers, has added a service that allows viewers to actually hire someone they've been watching. The aptly named 'Hire a streamer' service works exactly as it sounds. Via the profile of a developer you've seen coding on the site, a 'hire me' button lets you request their time. The service is completely opt-in for developers, so not everyone will be for-hire. When you click on the 'hire me' button, you'll be met with a list of disciplines that developer is familiar with, and their hourly rate. Once you've booked a session, the money is held in escrow (transactions happen via the site) until the developer has completed the work.
Sounds stupid (Score:5, Insightful)
When I'm coding I might spend 30 minutes thinking about something or scribbling on paper and then spend maybe 2 minutes actually typing the code. Those are just fictitious numbers of course, but really both of those numbers could be much higher or much lower depending on the problem.
How does this service account for thinking time?
Re:Sounds stupid (Score:5, Interesting)
I should say that I am no longer working as a software developer because I needed a change and got another degree and now work in a science field, but the same thing still applies and programming is still part of my job.
I could spend 8 hours writing crappy code, iterating over it, changing it, tweaking it, etc, etc, throughout a typical work day. But, and I'm pretty confident in this, I can (and do) instead spend maybe 25-75% of my day (or more) thinking about things -- designing things -- before implementing them and end up with a better result. I've had jobs where lines of code, or in some cases, words per minute typed, were a metric and left them as soon as I found a job based on reality instead of fiction.
Re:Sounds stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
I could spend 8 hours writing crappy code, iterating over it, changing it, tweaking it, etc, etc, throughout a typical work day. But, and I'm pretty confident in this, I can (and do) instead spend maybe 25-75% of my day (or more) thinking about things -- designing things -- before implementing them and end up with a better result.
But in the former case at least you would be "Agile".
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Like this, probably. http://dilbert.com/strip/1995-... [dilbert.com]
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Awwwwwwwww, it's always cute when kids discover sarcasm for the first time.
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I prefer the whiteboard myself. Even with a pencil, there are too many eraser marks marks, I rather just rub it off with my finger and do the correction.
I normally go to the whiteboard when I realize I am stuck with just coding it from my head so I use it to visualize the information I need to work with.
Sometimes I flow chart it, other times it is just to chart it out. Tools like Visio and excel, are too clumsy for such work as they try to make assumptions that I want something, that I myself isn't sure if
Re:Sounds stupid (Score:4, Insightful)
Those aren't developer jobs, they're programmer jobs. You know, the kind of jobs that are often hidden behind "implementation left as an exercise to the reader". The kind of problem that you have to think about does not concern programmers. Their job is to apply the tools to translate a specification into a program.
And fuck these people for giving employers the idea that "computer people" should be watched and paid piece-rate like a factory worker. To the employers: If you pay be LOC and hours worked on a problem, then that's what you get: Lots of code that takes a long time to write.
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They are not unskilled workers.
I take a look at the general quality of code and have to disagree. Sure, it takes some experience to learn the tools, but only in the same sense that construction workers are not "unskilled workers" either. It is difficult to see who can do what, but that doesn't mean that there are no differences. You will not find a developer on one of those "watch me work" sites who can solve problems that don't already have a "best practice" solution awaiting implementation. As is the topic of this thread, who would pay for seeing someone think? The jobs which still need thought are unsuitable for these sites, and developers who have those skills don't have to whore themselves out like that. That leaves straight-forward implementation, and there are people who do that and just that, whether you like it or not.
This just plays into the old movie trope where some nerd sits in a dark room with a bunch of friends, types at a high rate of speed, and "presto!", he's hacked the Pentagon. And don't forget that you can see letters from the screen projected on the wall behind him. It's no more realistic than the "zing" sound when someone draws a sword, the "pfhut!" that's all that comes from a silencer or that every car wreck results in an explosion and fire.
Real development doesn't take place at the keyboard, any more tha
Re: Sounds stupid (Score:1)
In software development the source code is the blue print. The "pouring concrete" and building part is actually the build system and compiler's job. So the costruction workers and factory workers doesn't really exist in software development.
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I thought their equivalent was the users. Hitting a nail through a pipe, sticking a part in upside down, putting the number of employees in the NAICS code ...
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I got my MBA, and I took an MBA course in Software Application Development. I was constantly butting heads with the professor because the concepts where based on unrealistic assumptions. I did learn UML so I can toss that on my Resume, however starting with the first assumption.
Figure out all the people who will be interacting with your software at some level. Aka the Actors. Because as the product gains footing more people jump in and some jump out. Which makes the second phase of gathering required i
watch them to see what they need (Score:3)
> they really don't know what they need, they think they do, until they see the project in action, then they will need other stuff.
This part jumped out at me. Absolutely users rarely know what they need. Very often they'll tell you they need A. When pressed further, they'll explain that they need A in order to get to B. Which they need in order to get to C. Of course, it's much easier and more correct to just give them C, skipping A and B altogether.
However, in my experience, if you walk
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It's a big business thing. Old big business.
System analysts was the old pigeon hole. They were supposed to build tight and complete specs (which made them instant 'database experts'), coders never met the users. Never worked, always took forever, cost a fortune and couldn't hit a moving target.
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If 10% of your time is actually spent interacting with the computer, then just charge 900% of your normal hourly fee. "Thinking" is now just an expense covered by your rates :)
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If 10% of your time is actually spent interacting with the computer, then just charge 900% of your normal hourly fee.
This makes sense.... you are actually getting paid for everything you do. The number of hours you are actually coding is just being used as a benchmark; it should only be a proportion of the time, if your work is high quality ---- BUT it should still be a proportion of your time.
If you're spending 1 hour of thinking for every 1 hour of coding, then the hourly rate should be triple what
It is Stupid. (Score:2)
Software Development is a professional trade, and Software Developers should be treated like professionals.
I am sick of these methods to try to monitor our work like a fast food employee.
I have a reputation for being having quick turnaround in my code, and I get called in when others say it cannot be done. this sometimes bites me back when someone is harder than normal so it will take me a week to do something, but Software Development is a skill, and sometimes you need to take extra time and though into a
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You can hire a streamer to get a private one on one stream with them; for whatever reason the streamer wants to hire out for.
Sure, people can do work for hire that way but I don't think it will see much use in that regard.
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You're not the only one. I hate sitting at the computer and typing up code. Instead, I want to understand it, ponder it, think, and then write a succinct amount of code that does i
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Yeah im the same. I'm often working in fits and starts. Often I'll get into the office, smash down a coffee and blast a couple pages of code out, then hit a snag, lose steam and not really achieve much for half an hour, then blast back into it for another 10 minutes, then completely zone out for an hour before hitting the groove again for an hour straight. Some bosses see this and whilst they might note I *always* hit my deadlines want me to spend less time non productive. The problem is, programming is bra
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Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe.
-- Abraham Lincoln
Low rates (Score:4, Informative)
I'm a freelance iOS developer and from what I've seen, the rates for remote work are always significantly lower than when I report for duty at the client's office. Right now I'm billing a minimum of 70 euros per hour. I won't get that remotely.
This will be no different. The kind of client that hires remote workers, doesn't want to pay a good rate.
Re:Low rates (Score:4, Interesting)
You know out of curiosity I clicked on one of these sites a half decade ago expecting to laugh at H1B1 company applicants with 5 years experience in Rust and Node.js etc.
Instead found a white guy in Mexico. In Mexico?? Turns out he lives on a tropical beach and living the life :-)
No boss, sucky city, corporate stuff. Just living and soing what he wants.
My exwife got a job in Alaska during this time. OMG LOOVED it!! Ok maybe not by March after 7 months of winter :_)
But money is not everything. If I could be whatever I wanted I would happily live in Alaska for the summer and be in hiking, fishing, boating heaven and Hawaii for 45 Euro and do my own thing with less pressure then sign me up. Everyone I know who chases money becomes misserable after 3 months
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I totally agree, and the cost of living in a city offsets the decent rate I mentioned.
My best time in the last couple of years was when I took a $300/month internship at a small startup on Bali, with housing included. Office hours between 11 AM and 4 PM, swimming pool at the back of the office, and the office basically consisted of two large tables under a giant gazebo, with two fibers coming in.
I actually had to cry when I got on the plane back to Europe, but my SO was pregnant and did not (still does not)
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No, if you don't suck at your job (Score:1)
The kind of client that hires iOS developers is an Apple zealot too stupid to hire remote employees and pay them well (or understand anything about software engineering for that matter).
The kind of horrible freelance you are can't get normal clients.
iOS developers are a dime-a-dozen so people don't get stuck w/o devs and even consider hiring remotely.
I don't know, you're stating these "facts", so so can I!
Have you seen sites like WeWorkRemotely? Remotive?
FULL of remote jobs at awesome companies offering rea
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It seems to me like it would be purely a supply and demand thing.
If you only look at the pool of devs in a locality, you have, at most, the population within a couple of miles range of that locality. If you accept remotes, you have the entire world. And you only need 1 (or 10, or 100, or 1000, doesn't matter). Your demand is fixed, but your supply changes depending on if you want on site vs remote.
Then you have the fact that the guy who's paying for his million dollar condo in SF/NYC/Cambridge will negotia
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I have to say, it sounds extremely appealing to me. It's just that I haven't succeeded with these sites so far. They'd say stuff like: "amazing opportunity, huge budget", and the budget would actually be 5 or 10 K. I'm looking for the 30-60 K range, at the very least.
And yes, it's not all about the money. Especially being able to pick up my daughter somewhat earlier from daycare would be a huge boon. In any case, you're saying that WeWorkRemotely and Remotive are the places to find good clients?
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When have you last checked? It's getting more and more popular, really. ;-)
And aren't they giving away free money where you live, anyway???
I go over these websites mostly out of my interest in remote jobs (seeing what companies are in the game, what kind of jobs, what do they offer, etc.).
The jobs/pay seem way more legit than what you're thinking about...
See for yourself, and learn how to negotiate, you're a freelancer!
The best place to find good clients is your inbox. Word-of-mouth is still the best tool.
T
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Thanks for some great pointers! I'm confident in my skills as a developer but I have to admit I can do better than this.
Really appreciate your replies.
First time submitter? Hope it's the last time too. (Score:3)
Looks like another excuse for low-balling rates. Hey, you stopped typing for 30 seconds, I want 10% off!
P.S. Don't you think you should have included a link to Live Coding itself?
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Kids today... (Score:2)
Are you incapable of adding the markup for links manually? It uses those pointy lefty-righty things, they're usually down near the bottom.
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I couldn't go for this (Score:2)
I'd have to use much less profanity in my comments and variable names.
This is like... (Score:1)
... A gimmick (Score:2)
Hourly contract is/was the 'Uber-ification' of software development. This is nothing more than a gimmick.
Anyone who has enough knowledge to observe someone code and understand what's the developer is doing has better things they could be spending their time on. Anyone who doesn't have that knowledge won't be able to tell the difference between the developer toiling on the work they were contracted for or on a personal pet project.
er, task-based! (Score:2)
Gah, I meant task-based contract is the 'uber-ification' -- not hourly.
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Humans and businesses want control, transparency and dynamic developer environment.
Buzzword bingo started: you have 3 squares so far. Are you a fresh MBA grad? WTF does 'dynamic developer environment' even mean in this context? Fuck that, what does it mean period?
Something like a start-up with no clue on what they want to do
Just... what? A start-up with no clue on what they want to do? Why did they form a 'start-up'?
... would like to develop software for their business as the developer "types out the code". They travel from Point A to Point B with one developer and can go to Point C with another developer.
You've described a situation where salary-, hourly-, task-based contracts already provide a solution. Adding the ability to 'watch a developer code' add nothing to shops that need to go from A to B to C.
Hailing a developer to do something is a good way to figure out things at lower cost.
Again... What? If you need someon
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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Somewhere around the time that
Coder all day long? I wish. (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay, sure, you can watch a coder in real time, but most of the time people don't need a coder, they need a developer. A developer has project management and other "soft" skills. Coding is the hammer and the nails... you have to know what you're creating before you start to build it. Most of the time you would see the developer typing up emails, creating diagrams and flow charts, writing executive summaries, managing their agile tracker, consulting on a conference call, researching documentation, etc.
I'm so tired of people thinking that software engineering is about coding. It isn't about coding, it's about developing real-world technical solutions of which coding is a relatively small part.
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It's the pendulum issue. Once upon a time, people thought all they needed was coders. They would hire anyone that could code, or even outsource the job.
They didn't work so hot, because you actually need someone with critical thinking, business knowledge, experience, and the ability to actually engineer a system, not just code it, to keep it ticking.
So then they go the other way. Coders are useless, I just want the tip top 1% of the 10x devs. Now, even forgetting how hard it is to find these folks, there's a
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I never have points to mod up when I need them.
You definitely used that hammer to hit the nail square on bro.
Crappiest idea ever. (Score:2)
Lose-lose situation (Score:1)
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I'm guessing some kind of rating or feedback system like how ebay does it might be in order.
+++_-_WOULD CODE FOR AGAIN!!1-_-+++
Or some shit.
advertisement (Score:2)
i'm just going to go out on a limb and say this is an advertisement because the first thing "alphamore" aka Alphamore Media Solutions [alphamorem...utions.com] did after creating an account was submit this story. despite their address being created on 2015-06-23, they claim to have completed 1,412 projects and written 712,094 lines of code.
seems legit, right? -_-
Re: advertisement (Score:1)
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Hello, No affiliation with any parties whatsoever. The numbers you speak of are actually modest, there is life before domain registration so says the white hair growing out of my ears.
hee hee.i likee you
Hunt and peck. (Score:2)
My luck I'd get a great programmer with no typing skills.
Have fun trying to code in a goldfish bowl (Score:2)
With someone tapping the glass every few minutes to see if you react.
What are you doing? (Score:2)
Thinking.
Can't you do that on your own time?
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Some of my best thinking is done in the shower in the morning. Would not be pretty to watch that.
Jiffy Lube? (Score:2)
Just what we need (Score:1)
Add performing code monkey to my list of skills...
Not coder but!.. Time. (Score:1)
1 I am not a coder or programmer or computer logic problem solver but I recognize the problem immediately.
2 I write 'words' for a living. These define consequences of compliance with {get paid!] or non compliance with [get lawsuit!] providing a 'machine to do a job'.
3 I work in two ways, as Case A) a 'per diem fee on site' OR at same rates hours offsite where I and only I say how many hours apply. Thus offsite work often thinking time 48 hours and 30 minutes writing a single paragraph gets billed as 48.5 h