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More Tech, STEM Workers Voluntarily Quitting Their Jobs ( 167

Nerval's Lobster writes: New data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) suggests that more tech professionals are voluntarily quitting their jobs. In August, some 507,000 people in Professional and Business Services (which encompasses tech and STEM positions) quit their positions, up from 493,000 in July. It's also a significant increase over August 2014, when 456,000 professionals quit. Voluntary quits could be taken as a sign of a good economy (Dice link), hinting that people feel confident enough about the market to jump to a new position (likely with better pay and benefits), if not strike out on their own as an independent. For tech pros, things are particularly rosy at the moment; according to the BLS, the national unemployment rate among tech pros has hovered at under 3 percent for the past year, although not all segments have equally benefitted from that trend: Programmers, for example, saw their unemployment rate dip precipitously between the first and second quarters of this year, even as joblessness among Web developers, computer support specialists, and network and systems engineers ticked upwards during the same period. If there's one tech segment that hasn't enjoyed economic buoyancy, it's manufacturing, which has suffered from layoffs and steady declines in open positions over the past several quarters.
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More Tech, STEM Workers Voluntarily Quitting Their Jobs

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  • retirement? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by turkeydance ( 1266624 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @06:56PM (#50747193)
    disability? there's lots from which to choose.
  • You like our work? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 16, 2015 @06:58PM (#50747203)

    Pay us well and treat us well, and we won't keep job-hopping.

    • by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @07:07PM (#50747255)

      Pay us well and treat us well, and we won't keep job-hopping.

      People tend to job-hop when pay is rising the fastest. It is during recessions that they hunker down and stay loyal.

      • by Okian Warrior ( 537106 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @08:17PM (#50747499) Homepage Journal

        Pay us well and treat us well, and we won't keep job-hopping.

        People tend to job-hop when pay is rising the fastest. It is during recessions that they hunker down and stay loyal.

        To be fair, it's when pay is rising fastest *in other companies* that that people tend to job-hop, yes?

        • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 16, 2015 @10:48PM (#50747897)

          You got it!

          Company offers a 2% raise, competitor offers 30% more pay and better benefits. No contest.

          Actually, I went to my boss and explained that I could get 30% more by getting another job. His response was "I don't believe you, times are tough and you should be thankful you have a job." He was surprised when I turned in my resignation 48 hours later. Seems the listing company jumped when I sent in my resume, interviewed me same day and offered the next morning.

          i've been at the new job a year and love it!

      • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 16, 2015 @08:23PM (#50747519)

        Yeah, and it's during the boom times companies whine about "employee loyalty" and all that shit they destroyed. Yet during recessions, they can't do the layoffs fast enough.

        Boo fucking hoo.

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Bullshit. Good STEM workers are not primarily interested in money, or they would have chosen a different field. Of course, it has to be still enough to make a decent living, but otherwise other things are more important. Not all people are like the modern "manager" species that does not understand anything except money, and that only with a short-term view.

        • You must have picked your secondary education quite a bit after me. When I went into Computer Science, it was being sold as endless fields of opportunity. That everyone would be so crucial to the economy that companies would beg to have you come work for you. It didn't quite pan out that way.
          • by rhyous ( 1727822 )

            Actually that is exactly how it panned out. If it didn't pan out for you that way, then you must be doing something wrong. I don't even take calls anymore from numbers I don't recognize because I get about 1 to 3 recruiting calls and two to five recruiting emails daily.

            • How many of those recruiters are willing to hire someone from anywhere? I dont lot happening from my meditate location. Sure its easy if you live in New York LA or silicon valley. Also how are recruiters finding out about you?
        • When I went back to community college to learn computer programming after the dot com bust, computers were still the money major of the day. That changed a few years later when everyone abandoned computers for healthcare which became the new money major. I had a friend who switched from computers to healthcare, becoming a male nurse at a major hospital. He liked the money, hated the patients he worked with. Ironically, my current I.T. support contract is for a hospital but I have no interaction with the pat
    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday October 16, 2015 @07:12PM (#50747267)

      Pretty much this.

      Management and other small-minded folks like to blame employee dissatisfaction on anything but the real causes: mistreatment by management, mandatory unpaid OT, expectation of being on-call 24/7 and very few opportunities for promotion and advancement for tech workers who choose to stay at one company.

      • Seconded.

      • Don't forget (Score:5, Informative)

        by Runaway1956 ( 1322357 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @10:35PM (#50747865) Homepage Journal

        Sometechcompany has contintuity and visibility. The Company writes policy, press releases, public relations statements, etc. So, year after year after year, The Company keeps reiterating how great they are, and how unappreciated they are.

        The techs who have worked for The Company in the past and the present have no such outlet. Their reasons for leaving aren't publicized. Two, or six, or twenty people might know your real reasons for leaving, but none of it is publicized. Outside of your immediate freinds and associates, no one knows how shitty The Company has been treating you.

        And, it is the job of HR to ensure that your reasons are twisted, perverted, and/or hidden from public view. Often enough, it would cost your freinds and associates their jobs to make any attempt to set the record straight.

        So, when all is said and done, The Company just gets away with whatever the hell they please, and you have no recourse other than leaving.

        • by pixelpusher220 ( 529617 ) on Saturday October 17, 2015 @12:42AM (#50748243)
          "The Company keeps reiterating how great they are"

          you have no idea. The year my company was named to 100 best to work for...they reprinted every god damned piece of letterhead, envelope, notepad...anything with our logo on it now had the 100 best to work for logo.

          the funny thing was apparently that was illegal and within a month we got cease and desist from whoever grants 100 best to work for. Now we had zero paper for anything we could use and corporate wasn't buying yet another company wide paper buy...yeah they do anything to claim how great they are
        • by gweihir ( 88907 )

          This is a slow road to irrelevancy though: Because all the good STEM workers will leave, and only those that have no other prospects will stay. IBM is in that fix at the moment for example, they do not have many good engineers left. Same with HP or Yeahoo. Sure, giants die slowly, but once they are moribund, nothing can safe them.

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        I completely agree. One condition of getting me to work for you is that every minute I work is on the clock and gets paid for. Otherwise, overtime (which in a sane environment is reserved for emergencies only) becomes a tool management uses to compensate for their mistakes.

    • by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @07:33PM (#50747339)
      I recently ran into a former coworker who is still working the same job and making the same money I did when we worked together ten years ago. I didn't have the heart to tell him that the contract work I did since then paid 80% more money. Those yearly 2% raises don't add up.
      • by plopez ( 54068 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @09:35PM (#50747713) Journal

        Why not share you numbers? An efficient labor market cant operate without a good flow of information.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Numbers are meaningless without location.

          Junior level candidates in Silicone Valley can start at what senior level candidates make in, say Colorado. But the crazy cost of living offsets that completely.

        • The second part of the statement, I agree with. But in this case numbers aren't worth as much as names. We need to start naming and shaming the companies that are abusing basic labor laws first. We know there are vast discrepancies in salaries already, but salary discrepancies aren't inherently illegal.

          (Don't worry, I know you didn't think it out further than trying to call what you probably erroneously assumed was a bluff, I was just trying to help the discussion as a whole by salvaging the important pa

          • Naming and shaming - that is what is for. Everybody needs to sign up, share their salary info, and comment on the quality of their employers.

    • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Saturday October 17, 2015 @01:25AM (#50748373)

      Loyalty is priceless. Unfortunately, the MBA scum that swims to the top these days does not understand that.

    • by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Saturday October 17, 2015 @09:24AM (#50749229)

      Many companies fail to understand the cost of turnover. Normally when turnover happens it will cost 150% to replace an employee. Because of the time it will take them to settle in and get use to the process (The informal one, that isn't written down, such as avoid these departments, as their manager is a jerk, work around this director because he is useless). After about a full year of learning then someone usually comes truly productive in the institution. So that is a big cost to the organization to have people leave.

      While employee salary is the biggest expense for an organization, it is also a vital key to its infrastructure, and it shouldn't be skimmed. Studies show if someone is getting paid more than they feel it is worth, they will work harder, if they feel they are getting paid less than they feel they are worth, they will not work as hard. The calculation for happy employees isn't hard.
      Give them good pay: on par or better than your compensation.
      Give them predictability: They will need to feel that their job is steady, and they can plan a life outside around it.
      Give them opportunities to grow: Make sure they have a path towards promotion, ability to learn other things. A lot of businesses feel tuition reimbursement will just train people to be overqualified for their job. However if you can promote the person once they have the new education, they will stick around, and you will have someone in that higher position who knows the business with the latest skills.

      Avoiding any one of these causes turn over.
      Under par pay: You may get employees when they are desperate, or with a promise of the other two where they think they can work up really fast. But any thing that causes them to lose trust in the organization and they are out, as soon as they can.
      Lack or predictability: This could just come from a volatile attitude, where you may be friendly one day, and yelling and screaming the next. Where your job in under pressure that YOU may be next on the layoff. Down times do happen, but you can make this more predictable letting people know who is getting canned, and why, allowing them time to prepare, and perhaps using your organizations resources to help them find new work. This can also mean unpredictable hours, granted all work isn't 9-5 but, having a good scheduled and shared out of office duties so people can live their life.
      Lack of growth: As they continue on the job, the gain insight on what needs to be done, not allowing people to grow, in terms of rank, or getting choice jobs. Also the organization will have an overly simplify ranking structure.

      • Great post, I'd mod you up if I could.

        One more thing with many jobs is that when a person walks out, they can take irreplaceable information with them. Most of us probably aren't given time to really document what we do, so when we leave, all the "whys" and "designs" go with us. Where I am now, I'd love to know why several things were done like they are because I think they need to be changed but we don't dare for fear of breaking something important; but we'll never know why as the people who coded it ar
    • by hwstar ( 35834 )

      Employer: You signed a blanket non-compete. If you leave we have the arbitration judge on your payroll sue the shirt off your back

  • by BenJeremy ( 181303 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @07:01PM (#50747221)

    At HP, there are a LOT of people leaving, as morale is at an all-time low. Those with marketable skills would rather leave on their own than get a dreaded "offer" to work at Ciber or Modis at 30% less pay, reduction in benefits, and a loss of seniority - and finding they can make more at a company willing to actually offer reasonable compensation increases on a regular basis.

    There may be other companies, not as high profile as HP, where this is also occurring. Obviously, there are many companies "below average" (Kind of has to be that way), but the disparity is pretty high - when people start shopping around, they quickly realize they are underpaid, and the rest of the pieces start falling into place.

    It can't go on forever... which is all the more reason those people confident in their ability to place at better companies are going now, rather than waiting.

    • by Shados ( 741919 )

      in the SF and Valley areas, as well as on the east coast (Boston, NYC, etc), the average "half life" of a software engineer before they quit to go elsewhere is ridiculously low. Between 1 and 2 years depending on the city.

      There's a lot of reasons and theories for it... "just because they can", "its easier to jump ship than wait for a promotion", "you get bigger raises that way", "seeing more companies make you a better engineer", etc etc etc.

      Its almost an habit at this point. Not sure its great for the indu

    • by plopez ( 54068 )

      Services is dying. IBM, MS, Dell, etc. just about every big services company is cutting back. Anyway, a friend who works at HP said they are starting to lift the hire freeze for developers and his project has hired one and looking for another. So check their postings. Of course that is just a datum, so do some research if you are looking.

    • At HP....morale is at an all-time low.

      That is really saying something!

    • I dunno about "all time low", this isn't a new situation for us. SABRE to EDS, EDS to HP, HP to whomever will take the various subcontracts. All our site support is converted to contractors, at about a $7-$10 per hour pay reduction. Oh, and NO real benefits since the ACA "employer mandate" somehow doesn't cover the contracting companies like Insight Global, Mindlance, etc. Not sure how they got to opt out when the employees didn't...
  • maximum suckage (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BarbaraHudson ( 3785311 ) <barbarahudson@gmai l . c om> on Friday October 16, 2015 @07:03PM (#50747237) Journal
    More people are clueing into the fact that working conditions suck, that sh*t always rolls downhill when it comes to missed deadlines or ever changing specs, and that it's not worth it. Ageism and the up or out mentality, where there are too few jobs to move up to, doesn't help.
    • And doing what? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @09:04PM (#50747599)
      I sorta get your sentiment, but you didn't finish it. What exactly are they doing about it? Are they joining communes? Committing Sepuku? Otherwise there's 3 possibilities: a) they're starting their own businesses, unlikely in this economy. b) They're job hopping because that's the only way to move up in the world or c) they're having nervous breakdowns and/or being forced to quit/retire.
      • I quit the field entirely. Health reasons, which is the inevitable outcome for many of us. Sucks, but it has its benefits. Less stress, no crazy bosses with crazy ideas who want it yesterday, more time with family, friends, the dogs... I miss it, but I would never go back. Enough is enough, already!

        It's a different life when you're no longer on Internet time. A normal life.

        • by dbIII ( 701233 )
          Ironically I avoided the stress by going to work for a resources exploration company where everything has to just work no matter what. Having two of everything and fallbacks to older solutions reduced those weekend and late night calls to zero.
          • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Saturday October 17, 2015 @01:46AM (#50748423)

            That is just called solid engineering. Most companies would benefit a lot from it, but it is a long-term effect that the current crop of MBA idiots-savant "managers" do not understand.

            Incidentally, I know one bank large enough that you would have recognized the name that recently nearly died because they did away with that redundancy to reduce cost. They were very lucky the incident happened on a Friday or they would be gone by now. A large competitor had the same problem a few days later(same network services supplier) and they only had a 30 minutes outage because they have a fully redundant infrastructure.

      • by hwstar ( 35834 )

        d) Smart enough to play the game to win. Saved till there was enough F.U. money for me to not worry about having steady employment ever again.

        • e) Get into another field entirely where businesses have been around long enough to have grown out of the childish ways of management so prevalent in the IT field.
  • Fed up (Score:5, Interesting)

    by paugq ( 443696 ) <pgquiles@e l p a u e r . o rg> on Friday October 16, 2015 @07:04PM (#50747239) Homepage

    I see more and more people in IT leaving their jobs to work on something else.

    People are fed up with low pay, crazy schedules, lots of pressure -often times for no reason!- and technology changing at Formula 1 speed (just take a look at the web: what was good and trendy 2 years ago is proscribed today).

    To top that up, add off-shoring: today you are key, tomorrow your job is in India, Vietnam or who knows where. People do not like job insecurity.

    What are they moving to? Everything else: law, gardening, plumbing, cake shops, teaching, whatever with a more relaxed schedule, people not discussing about hourly cost and difficult or impossible to offshore. Really.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      And lack of vacation. I've only quit three jobs in my life, and all three were to get time off. I worked from college until I was 35 without a single week off, and it sucked. I quit that job so I could go on a cruise. Now, my current employer has a no vacation rule until we release, and we're three years past that original release date now. Yes, there's a massive developer shortage so there's more work to do than can possibly be done, but too many companies just don't get that it costs less to let some

    • This is definitely the case. 20 years ago you would occasionally see people leave the industry to try to turn a hobby/passion into a business (starting a restaurant, etc.). Now you see people leaving the industry out of pure frustration. I don't blame them either. I've been writing software since I was a child and I imagine I'll be writing software for the rest of my life. I love writing software but loathe the modern software industry.

      On the bright side, the toxicity of the modern software industry is

  • by walterbyrd ( 182728 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @07:14PM (#50747283)

    STEM: Science Technology Engineering and Mathematics

  • by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @07:21PM (#50747307)

    They've finished training their H1-B replacements, after all.

  • by walterbyrd ( 182728 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @07:22PM (#50747309)

    I have seen ads for jobs as desktop techs, asking for a masters degree in engineering.

    Costco starts out at $20.00 an hour. Walmart truck drivers make $82K a year. I see ads for developers, asking for a degree, and five years experience, for $14 an hour. I see ads for interns that require five years experience.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Honestly, if I thought I could get scheduled 40 hours/wk at Costco I'd turn in a resume. That's probably about my current salary if you divided it by my overtime.

      If I could get a consistent schedule, I'd pick up a second part-time job to make up the difference. Probably do a bit of open-source dabbling on the weekends once programming stopped being work and started being something where I can solve problems and have fun.

      Reality is, though, employers these days shit on all their workers by scheduling them p

      • by ooshna ( 1654125 )

        I just got into an argument with someone over this being the reason we have to keep minimum wage. You give companies the ability to use peoples desperation for work as an incentive to for less and we will quickly see wages drop to sweat job levels in just a few years.

        • Wasn't there a Mitch Hedberg on this? "I'll pay you minimum wage, but if I could pay you less, I would"
        • by Sentrion ( 964745 ) on Saturday October 17, 2015 @01:30AM (#50748391)

          Problem is that the minimum wage can actually work against all of us if the wage isn't properly adjusted for inflation. Otherwise a minimum wage eventually leaves a full time worker living in poverty and requiring medicaid, food stamps, and housing assistance just to get by. It sets an artificial baseline that employers will try to aim for. So if semi-skilled workers get minimum wage, skilled workers get minimum wage plus a bag of peanuts. An artificially low minimum wage drags down wages for all workers except those that assign their own compensation - those executives that sit on each other's boards of directors and, like monkeys grooming each other, mutually decide to keep increasing each others pay regardless of whether the company is profitable or failing. Meanwhile shareholders have been conditioned to expect returns that fall below inflation (when they aren't negative), and workers have grown accustomed to just trying to keep whatever job they have rather than believing they deserve a reasonable share of the profits they produce. The collective fear of the workers makes sure that those few who may have the audacity to make demands can easily be replaced by a more agreeable and subservient employee.

          When the minimum wage is a living wage, every worker can have confidence confronting employers about working hours, working conditions, or even ask for more pay, knowing that a worst case scenario is they have to get a job elsewhere that pays a wage that they can manage to live with. Workers higher up on the pay scale can afford to take chances with their careers knowing that in the short term they can always fall back to a lower paying job if their plans don't work out. It's ultimately better for the economy as a whole. Satisfied workers are more productive and less likely to leave, even if the short term cost to employers is to pay more. But as all employers would be paying the same they wouldn't be going out of business from paying better wages.

          • Take it up a notch. Pay everyone a Basic Income, sufficient for a basic but not awful existence. That way no employer can use the collective desperation of the masses to pay them shitty wages - they have to offer something that's better than nothing, instead.

            They say "a rising tide lifts all boats", but most of us don't have a boat. If you give everyone at least a life-raft, then offering someone a life-raft as an alternative to drowning stops being a thing. You have to offer someone a boat.

    • by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @07:53PM (#50747419)

      I have seen ads for jobs as desktop techs, asking for a masters degree in engineering.

      That should clue you in that the company doesn't want to hire American workers.

    • they're legally required to offer the job to an American. Then when no one 'qualified' applies they get to bring in an H1-B. Vote Bernie, he's the only one against it all.
  • by PCM2 ( 4486 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @08:26PM (#50747523) Homepage

    Are we really extrapolating a trend from a single month-to-month increase? Sure, 493,000 professionals quit in July and 507,000 quit in August. That's actually a pretty negligible change. All the more so when you consider that 510,000 quit in June and 516,000 quit in May.

    Indeed, from the report itself:

    The number of quits has held between 2.7 million and 2.8 million for the past 12 months after increasing steadily since the end of the recession. The quits rate was unchanged in August, measuring 1.9 percent for the fifth month in a row. The number of quits was little changed for total private and government over the month.

    So once again -- lies, damn lies, etc.

  • by Grand Facade ( 35180 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @08:35PM (#50747541)

    When all of their cow-orkers speak Hindi..

    What is big business going to do when the short term payoff HB-1 workers go home and take their new found knowledge with them?

    They will cry crocodile tears about how the offshore engineers are beating them at their own game.

    They will need more government subsidies and tax breaks to survive!

    • by asylumx ( 881307 )
      Even our people in India are worried because they're seeing the company outsourcing to another company that's also in India...
    • by Anonymous Coward

      When all of their cow-orkers speak Hindi..

      What is big business going to do when the short term payoff HB-1 workers go home and take their new found knowledge with them?

      They will cry crocodile tears about how the offshore engineers are beating them at their own game.

      They will need more government subsidies and tax breaks to survive!

      What they do is buy up land in India and set up a shop there where they hire the same people from a contracting company and operate the revolving door to keep costs down. It gets sold as "follow the sun" but really it's a way to need less expensive US based resources. Never mind that shit is always broken, always behind schedule and these people are not innovative, we have a small US team to be innovative and come up with the ideas to have the crap offshore sweatshop implement it. In the US we have typicall

      • by Anonymous Coward

        Same coward here, I forgot to mention that those contractors get to flaunt lifestyle in our face as well.

        Here in the US, we're tracked on EVERY SINGLE THING to justify our employment. Break times and lunch duration are all at manager discretion, if you have a good manager they don't care so long as you get crap done, if you have a bad manager don't even think about a break or taking an extended lunch.

        Whereas our global contemporaries get to show up to the office(typically a half hour late, but we can't comp

    • by blind biker ( 1066130 ) on Saturday October 17, 2015 @06:55AM (#50748957) Journal

      CxO's who run "big business" have only one allegiance, and that's their own profit, nothing else. They don't give a shit about firing thousands, tens of thousands of engineers (Carly Fiorina), the state of the US tech industry, the US as a country or its people... they only care about their own bonuses and then fuck the hell off once the company is screwed. Or the country is screwed.

      Please read up about corporate psychopaths. "Snakes in suits" is a good book.

      • Don't need to read the book, I've seen it. MANY TIMES!

        Company is doing fine printing money.
        CEO is squeezed out.
        New CEO brings in all his buddies.
        Company is stripped of its assets.
        Company's brain trust flees.
        Production is outsourced.
        CEO is lauded as a visionary.
        The remnants of the company are wrapped up in a bow and sold to competitor.
        CEO cashes in a ridiculous bonus on his way out.

    • The business will outsource all their engineering work to a firm in Elbonia who, due to the low cost of living there compared to the US, can hire those former workers for even less pay.

  • by zkiwi34 ( 974563 ) on Friday October 16, 2015 @09:45PM (#50747751)

    What are the reasons for the quit? Are they going politely because:

    a) A stash of cash as gratuity is being offered
    b) There's no point fighting, and they think going politely increases their chances for a new position
    c) They are actually going to new/better/better paid jobs
    d) Giving up on that type of career

  • Right now in michigan the wages are unreasonably low so there is a massive brain drain as most skilled tech people are leaving the state in droves. Why work here for $45K-$65K when the EXACT SAME JOB in Colorado or elsewhere is paying $ $79K-$102K

    Plus you can be way away from the cesspool that is known as Detroit.

    • by asylumx ( 881307 )
      Yes, this is true. Also makes it hard to hire because #1 nobody wants to move to Michigan and #2 HR won't let you pay more than these meager wages because "cost of labor is low."
    • by dbIII ( 701233 )

      Plus you can be way away from the cesspool that is known as Detroit.

      From afar that place and New Orleans after Katrina both look like good examples of the the "every city for itself" mentality of running a country is utterly fucked in the head. Detroit was a powerhouse of the economy in the 1950s when it was helping prop up other places and now it's been left to swing in the breeze.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Posting Anon for reasons that will become apparent within my post below.

      I own a development firm of a few skilled developers in the Canadian Prairies. We purchased the clients/accounts of a failing web development/hosting business based out of Indiana a couple of years ago.

      Many of the accounts are companies based in Michigan, hosting very dated (12+ years old), custom web based applications written in Perl.

      We've made a fair amount of money developing replacement software (also web based) for these clients.

  • There seems to be a polarization in these threads. Some people seem to think there are no jobs available and some people seem to think there are positions that can't be filled. This makes me if there are distinct hot spots for jobs and you simply have to be there in that area to get that job. This would affect job switchers as well, since it would take a radical amount of money to get people to move for a job and I don't see that kind of money being offered.
    • Some people seem to think there are no jobs available

      Those people are called applicants. They think there are no jobs available because they get rejected for not having 5 years' of experience in something that's only existed for 3 weeks, and out of embedded C, playing the ukulele and commanding a submarine they've only done two of them.

      and some people seem to think there are positions that can't be filled.

      Those people are called fucking retarded HR twats. They think there are no suitable candidates av

  • Tech W2 employment in America is an awful game:

    1. Employment-at-will is cruel. Most of the world does not have employment-at-will, it uses the "just-cause" model.
    2. Exempt employees put in long hours because of #1. There are no laws limiting working time in the US.
    3. Employers are almost impossible to take to court due to binding arbitration.
    4. Employees in most states can be forced to sign non-compete agreements or be fired.
    5. American employers offer some of the most paltry fringe benefits when compared t

    • As an I.T. support contractor in Silicon Valley for the last ten years, I never worked more than 40 hours per week. My contract prohibits me from working overtime because no one wants to pay overtime. I also get paid federal holidays, paid time off and a full benefit package. Being in my mid-40's, I'm actually one of the younger guys in my current contract job as many of my workers are in their upper 50's.

I was playing poker the other night... with Tarot cards. I got a full house and 4 people died. -- Steven Wright