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Programming Businesses IT Politics Technology

H-1Bs Reduced Computer Programmer Employment By Up To 11%, Study Finds (marketwatch.com) 268

An anonymous reader quotes a report from MarketWatch: There would have been up to 11% more computer science jobs at wages up to 5% higher were it not for the immigration program that brings in foreign high-skilled employees, a new study finds. The paper -- by John Bound and Nicolas Morales of the University of Michigan and Gaurav Khanna of the University of California, San Diego -- was conducted by studying the economy between 1994 and 2001, during the internet boom. It was also a period where the recruitment of so-called H-1B labor was at or close to the cap and largely before the onset of the vibrant IT sector in India. In 2001, the number of U.S. computer scientists was between 6.1%-10.8% lower and wages were between 2.6% and 5.1% lower. Of course, there also were beneficiaries -- namely consumers and employers. Immigration lowered prices by between 1.9% and 2.4%, and profits increased as did the total number of IT firms.

H-1Bs Reduced Computer Programmer Employment By Up To 11%, Study Finds

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 13, 2017 @07:56PM (#53861905)

    If H1Bs are bad, why are illegal immigrants from Mexico good?

  • by superwiz ( 655733 ) on Monday February 13, 2017 @07:58PM (#53861939) Journal
    The only way to equalize the marketplace is not to have artificial salary standards. It's to make them permanent alien residents. They don't compete just on salaries. They compete on work place conditions, too. They are willing tolerate more hostile work environments and more abusive management in general. The only way to make them not compete is to put them on the same legal footing as the US citizens and others who are not afraid that losing a job would mean a possible deportation. If there is a shortage of workers, then nothing is lost by giving them green cards on the 1st day. This is not a security threat because they are physically present in the country regardless of the visa. By importing workers on work visa the employers do much more than suppress wages. They import people who are willing to tolerate abuse. The employers suppress work place standards by doing this.
    • That's a pretty interesting way to look at it. I have always viewed every discussion about H-1B on Slashdot with the assumption that the only reason people complained about them is because they're salty about the competition. However, it seems I misjudged the H-1B program specifically-- the truth is that I thought it was an alternative path for immigration (which, based on your comment, it seems not to be). Of course, real immigration improves life overall. The immigrant definitely wins, plus the employer (
      • by superwiz ( 655733 ) on Monday February 13, 2017 @08:55PM (#53862279) Journal

        Of course, real immigration improves life overall.

        Well, yes, it does... in the long run. But the orthodoxy gets stronger in the longer run, too. Look at SF housing crisis. You don't think that having non-voting immigrants effects your community? You may have cheaper software services. But you have completely skewed housing market because so many of the residents cannot vote. H1B visas are usually a path to immigration. But they are a longer path. And that's inherently dishonest. They are, in all respects, resident aliens. But the legislature doesn't given them full citizenship rights that resident aliens can get after 5 years. So their voting rights are lagging by 5-6 years (however long it takes to get a green card for an H1B visa holder). Which means their rights to vote to change local laws to allow more construction are delayed by those 5-6 years. This effects not only them, but also the low-end housing market consumers. So what little consumers save in electronic services, they lose in other parts of the market because the lower-end consumers are less politically represented by the legislatures.

      • by slew ( 2918 ) on Monday February 13, 2017 @09:13PM (#53862367)

        However, it seems I misjudged the H-1B program specifically-- the truth is that I thought it was an alternative path for immigration (which, based on your comment, it seems not to be).

        Actually H-1B can be a defacto alternative path for immigration. It is one of a few *dual-intent* visas that allow you to simultaneously be a guest worker, and apply for a green card (which gives you resident alien status). The problem specifically for India and China is the lack of available green-card slots at the end of the H-1B 6-year tunnel as employment based green-cards from a specific country are limited to 7% of the max total. Basically no other countries come close to the limit, so they are the only which are actually impacted in the ability to convert an H-1B to a Green Card, so H-1B is effectively a path for immigration for many high tech workers *NOT* from India or China.

        The H1-B *gotcha* is that if the employee only qualifies for EB3 green card status (employment based preference level, basically a Bachelor's degree only) the employer needs to sponsor the green card and that is where the staffing companies can withhold this support and effectively make H-1B into indentured service. If the employee only qualifies for EB3 level preference and they are immigrating from India or China, well, the 7%/country bottleneck will make it unlikely for them to get a green card before their 6-year H1-B expires without lots of support from their employer and if they used up say 3 of 6 years, it's mighty unattractive to an alternate employer to hire them away so they are effectively stuck...

        On the other hand, if the employee qualifies for EB1 or EB2 (basically extraordinary ability, PhD, masters+5years, or executive preference level), they can probably self-sponsor (and often companies will sponsor them anyways as a good will measure) and these are not the stereotypical low-wage H1-Bs and are ahead of the queue for those seeking green cards from a country with only EB3 preference.

        • by superwiz ( 655733 ) on Monday February 13, 2017 @09:41PM (#53862515) Journal
          H1B visa holders wait 5-6 years to get a green card. That puts their voting rights, their civil protections, their right to collectively bargain on hold for 5-6 years. Why would anyone, in their right mind, compete with people who have no rights for work? Assuming both of you have equal skills and ask for equal wages, employers would be nuts to hire a citizen instead of an indentured servant.
      • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Monday February 13, 2017 @11:19PM (#53862961)

        I have always viewed every discussion about H-1B on Slashdot with the assumption that the only reason people complained about them is because they're salty about the competition

        There is plenty of work to go around. No-one cares about that at all.

        the truth is that I thought it was an alternative path for immigration

        it is but it is a TERRIBLE path. I have a number of good friends who came in as H1-B and eventually became citizens. That is great, I'm happy they made it in. But the H1-B program allowed for basically years and years of legal abuse for these guys. They really could not think of looking for another job and during layoffs they were way more fearful of being laid off than most workers. Similarly if there was a problem in the workplace they simply could not speak up because of potential consequences if they lost their job.

        That's my problem with the program, is that it is abusing people in the system, all while claiming to be a benefit... primarily it helps companies get cheaper programmers who cannot complain.

    • by zerofoo ( 262795 ) on Monday February 13, 2017 @08:16PM (#53862035)

      If you increase the supply of something and demand remains fixed - the cost of that something will go down.

      Econ 101

      The US does not need to import low to mid-skill labor. We have plenty of that here. We definitely want to import brilliant PhDs - but that's not how H1B is being used.

      H1B is a cheap guest worker program - it is enriching companies at the expense of the US worker.

      • If you increase the supply of something and demand remains fixed - the cost of that something will go down.

        If the cost goes down, why would the demand remain fixed?

        According to your theory, since the supply of programmers is high in Silicon Valley, the cost there will be low. And since the supply in Nebraska is low, the cost will be high. Do you think that matches reality?

        • by zerofoo ( 262795 ) on Monday February 13, 2017 @09:46PM (#53862545)

          Your localized analysis of labor markets is like trying to judge global climate by the weather in your backyard.

          Immigration policy is a national policy and it must be evaluated on a national level.

          "If the cost goes down, why would the demand remain fixed?"

          Do you have evidence that demand for these people is increasing? The author of the article doesn't seem to think so. Slashdot has been filled with stories over the last couple of years of firms laying off tech workers and forcing those workers to train their replacements.

          If demand for this talent was increasing, salaries would be rising across the industry and very few firms would be laying off workers. Why would you layoff anyone if you can't meet your demand for employees?

          H1B is a cost saving measure at the expense of the American worker. Anyone who thinks otherwise is being willfully ignorant of the situation.

        • since the supply of programmers is high in Silicon Valley, the cost there will be low. ...which completely ignores the "Demand" side of the equation. The supply of programmers in Silicon Valley is in fact not at all high compared to what it could be, primarily because of the cost of living in that area. It keeps many potential programmers away...

          Meanwhile the demand in that area from companies is astronomical which is why the programmers that are there earn so much. That at the fact that you have to pay

      • And how large is the supply of fully-fledged citizens who are willing to take abuse at the work place without taking any legal actions? Don't you think that people who would be willing to put up with grueling working conditions would want more compensation for it if they don't have to compete on work-place conditions with indentured servants who can be deported if they don't agree to such conditions?
    • by plopez ( 54068 )

      The problem with giving them gree cards you see is it dries up companies sources of cheap indentured labor. Can't have freedom, it's bad for business.

      • Then admit the truth that the workplace standards are unreasonably skewed towards employees. Otherwise, you have citizens (and permanent aliens) who can't find jobs because they have legal protections, which cannot be contractually given up, and you have 2nd class citizens who don't have legal protections. So a company which cannot function while providing all the same legal protections which are available to regular employees is forced to look for employees who are 2nd class citizens. This makes certain
    • >The only way to make them not compete is to put them on the same legal footing as the US citizens and others who are not afraid that losing a job would mean a possible deportation.

      This is where globalization ultimately leads; it increases the standards in developing nations with the incentive that in the short term you get to exploit them. You know, until they've caught up enough that you can no longer afford them.

      Forcing an immediate elevation of that foreign labour to equal in every way to the domest

    • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

      ...nothing is lost by giving them green cards on the 1st day. This is not a security threat because they are physically present in the country regardless of the visa

      If you gave them green cards the first day, they wouldn't have to work. Thus defeating the entire purpose of the system. It's a fair deal: They work, they get to stay. They pay taxes, they receive benefits. That is why there are work visas, and educational visas, and travel visas, and each one has different stipulations.

      No country on earth permits aliens to immigrate to the country, obtain benefits, and not provide something in return. Here in America, there are lots of people who think that even natu

      • If you gave them green cards the first day, they wouldn't have to work. Thus defeating the entire purpose of the system. It's a fair deal: They work, they get to stay. They pay taxes, they receive benefits. That is why there are work visas, and educational visas, and travel visas, and each one has different stipulations.

        Why would they leave? H1B visas cannot be legally used to suppress wages. If they are qualified and are getting competitive wages, why would they not stay on the job? Oh, and since they pay taxes, why shouldn't they be on the same track to citizenship as other resident aliens? Why should they not have a right to vote for mayors and city councils of the communities where they live for an extra 5-6 years that it takes them to get green cards?

        I can only speak for the software industry, but if you are an H1B Software Engineer who is being treated unfairly, I can point you to multiple companies in my local area that are hiring smart people and will sponsor you.

        Oh, no, I am a US citizen. But I don't bother even considering

        • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

          I'd like to respond, but I honestly don't know what you are trying to say. I'm really confused. In your post, you seem to be saying that people should get green cards for doing nothing, and that they should not have to hold jobs. But...then your response to my post doesn't seem consistent with that. So I'm really lost. Sorry.

          If they are qualified and are getting competitive wages, why would they not stay on the job?

          Most probably would. But you would seriously reduce their incentive to work by giving them a green card while asking for nothing in return. Why stay in a high-skill high-pressure

          • Why should they not have a right to vote for mayors and city councils of the communities where they live for an extra 5-6 years that it takes them to get green cards?

            This is a general civics question and I suggest you do a Google search on it. While there are a few countries that allow non-citizens to vote in small local elections, it is generally a bad idea to allow such significant foreign influence.

            Think about it a bit more. You'll realize that you replied in too much of a rush. I wasn't advocating for non-citizens to get voting rights. I was advocating for their path to citizenship to be as long as everyone else's instead of what it is now (roughly twice as long). C'mon though. Before knee jerking into "you just don't get it" mode, think about how much a person should know about the world to make an informed judgement and to propose a simple and yet innovative solution to how to solve a social p

      • I can only speak for the software industry, but if you are an H1B Software Engineer who is being treated unfairly, I can point you to multiple companies in my local area that are hiring smart people and will sponsor you. There's no reason to put up with bad working conditions or lower salary.

        You are talking about what should happen to the best of them. What about those who are not the best, but who are still pretty good? Or even just Ok? Why should they not be on equal playing field with their colleagues at work? With their neighbors in the community where they live? You do realize that we are creating a class of people who think they must be better just to get equal treatment and who, once they get all their legal right, will retain a degree of bitterness towards those who "had it easy"?

        • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

          You are talking about what should happen to the best of them. What about those who are not the best, but who are still pretty good?

          Why would a country go out of their way to import workers who are average? There's plenty of such people. If a country brought in average workers, then that would put a citizen worker out of a job.

          You do realize that we are creating a class of people who think they must be better just to get equal treatment and who, once they get all their legal right, will retain a degree of bitterness towards those who "had it easy"?

          That is false. You have never met an H1B worker.

          Let me tell you about H1B workers I know: Jitu, Song, Haichuan, Anish, Bala, Tong, Dmitry, Pratima, Anjalee. Those are real names and real people, not some fictituous strawman I read about on the internet. Some of them are citizens now. Every one of them is tru

          • It's sad too, when I asked Dmitry what it was like in Russia. He just said, quite darkly, "They don't have video games my friend." (He knew I was a gamer, so he was teasing me, but also drawing a real contrast.)

            This caricature is out of date that I tend to doubt the whole story. It's hard to imagine that anyone thought that someone could fall for this. "My friend"? This is the caricature part because no one talks like that outside of a hollywood movie.

            Another guy talked about living in Germany before the wall came down.

            To put it in perspective, the Soviet Union was officially dissolved 25 years ago. It only existed for 73 years. So your references are getting more and more dated.

            It's quite inspiring to see a new Chinese citizen say "Today I learned I have the right to own a gun! That no one can take it from me, and that nobody can stop me from saying president XYZ is a @!#?@!"

            You are sooooo full of shit. No one but no one talks like that. The fact that you came up with so

            • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

              You have provided no references whatsoever. But you are sure mine are all fake!

              P.S. I said Russia, not Soviet Union.

      • by dbIII ( 701233 )

        If you gave them green cards the first day, they wouldn't have to work

        Clueless trust fund baby detected.

    • I've said this for years. The problem with H1-B isn't about salary it's about indentured servitude. If we really need the talent that badly, why train them up on any kind of temporary visa? Give highly skilled tech workers access to an accelerated permanent residency and let them play on the same field as everyone else. I think you'd expose the lie about not enough resources in a hurry.
  • by xxxJonBoyxxx ( 565205 ) on Monday February 13, 2017 @08:06PM (#53861983)
    >> there also were beneficiaries -- namely consumers and employers

    Er...have you have had to deal with H1B code? Most of the "security vulnerabilities" and other showstopping bugs I've seen over the last ten years could be traced to a "consultant" working as an indentured servant for one of the interchangeable Indian body shops.
  • by ErichTheRed ( 39327 ) on Monday February 13, 2017 @08:14PM (#53862023)

    The thing I really don't like about the H-1B program is the abuse. There's nothing wrong with keeping a few visa slots open for truly exceptional people. I've seen the program used for this purpose and it mostly works. The problem is the companies that use it to directly replace older workers in routine, run of the mill IT and dev jobs. Companies are totally aware of what they're doing when they hire Tata, Infosys or Cognizant -- it's a "Pontias Pilate" move that lets them wash their hands of the IT department. That's what has been happening with the big stories making the news (Disney, Southern California Edison, etc.) The outsourcer comes in, has to make a profit on the deal, and so they offshore everything they can and slowly replace domestic workers with H-1Bs for things they can't. These are not the best and brightest -- its mostly DBA and dev work that requires just enough on site interaction to make offshoring ineffective. I've worked in outsourced IT environments -- everything takes twice as long and nothing new will ever be attempted in a company that has someone else running their iT, partially because change orders cost so much.

    Allowing the abuses is essentially a brake on IT workers' careers and an artificial salary cap. I've been lucky enough to become the senior guy in our engineering group over years of experience, and feel very strongly that we oldies (I'm 41 :-) ) have to develop the next generation. I don't want the pipeline of newbies to dry up because they're worried there's no future in technology. Young students are going to make rational choices and we're going to be stuck the same way the mainframers are now...no one will take the leap to learn enough to replace the retirees.

    Also, I totally don't buy the argument that there's no domestic talent. No one is a drop-in replacement for the last guy, and especially today it's impossible to be an expert at everything. That narrative that paints offshore consulting firms as world-class experts on technology has to change. I would love to hear accounts of domestic hires that had zero talent -- I just haven't experienced it!

    • by ad454 ( 325846 )

      ...I've worked in outsourced IT environments -- everything takes twice as long and nothing new will ever be attempted in a company that has someone else running their iT, partially because change orders cost so much.

      I have also experienced this first hand, where top developers, engineers, architect, cryptographers, and scientists each waste hundreds of hours per year dealing with "IT self service". If one had to add up all of the lost hours and productivity by these people, it would greatly exceed many times over, the savings companies like mine save by outsourcing their IT, which in our case was with ATOS [wikipedia.org].

      BTW, outsourcing IT, should also include using flaky and insecure cloud services, especially Microsoft Office365,

      • by plopez ( 54068 )

        It's called "Externalized Costs". And basically it invalidates any economic theory, such as Free Market theory, which makes the assumption you can know the true cost of something.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by ghoul ( 157158 )

      The guy on an H1 may not know the exact job but he will spend hours of his own time learning the job because he has the motivation of deportation . He will sacrifice personal time, family time even skip going to the doctor to come up to speed. You will not get the same dedication from a Citizen who can always go get a job at a better workplace. Want a level playing field? Banning H1Bs will not do it as the work will just go offshore. THe only way to level the playing field is to give Greencards to every H1

      • by plopez ( 54068 )

        In my experience they have (mostly) been clueless monkeys just in the US to get "Worked in America, know English" on their resumes. Do the 6 month contract and go home. While riding on the coattails of the clueful workers who work overtime to clean up their mess.

    • No, the program is the abuse. It incentivizes abuse because it creates a 2nd class of permanent aliens. They don't have legal rights of green card holders. Establish a new criterion for green card: if you deserve an H1B, you deserve a green card. That will fix all abuses.
  • Skilled labor? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by plopez ( 54068 ) on Monday February 13, 2017 @08:45PM (#53862209) Journal

    Hahahahah that's a good one. I have met maybe 1 in 5 H1Bs who weren't clueless and unmotivated ("severity 1 for our biggest client? I'll fix it Monday").

    And most of the ones with a clue were the women. The men were a waste of oxygen.

    India! Send us your women!

    • Re:Skilled labor? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Stonent1 ( 594886 ) <`ten.kralctniop.tnenots' `ta' `tnenots'> on Monday February 13, 2017 @10:21PM (#53862715) Journal
      I worked with someone from Bangladesh and he said "guys from India/Pakistan/Bangladesh are all mamma's boys who are served by their moms. They live in the house until they get married. Mom cooks and cleans for them. When you separate them from their mother, they become useless until they can figure out how to live on their own, which is why so many just get married as soon as they can." Those were his words.
      • by dbIII ( 701233 )
        Probably very true but also very common in the west, it's just takes so much longer for the large number of that type to find someone who will shack up with them.
        Being the only guy that can cook (Boy Scouts for the win!) in a share house with four other guys that don't know where to start is interesting. Exploding cans and caramel on the ceiling interesting. Fish fingers in the pop up toaster interesting.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
        • by plopez ( 54068 )

          I kid you not, a friend of mine, she burned boiled eggs. I'm serious.

          I go to visit the house she, a friend, her brother (also a friend of mine), and another guy were splitting and in the kitchen there is this small pot with indescribably burned, crunchy, black goo stuff in it. She had crammed about 6 eggs into a tiny pot, put in some water, turned the gas on high, and then went to take a shower and do her hair. With predictable results.

    • We had a guy we hired as part of an IBM software purchase. (Even the tech consultants said this was the most complex implantation they had ever seen and that NONE of the previous installs had actually worked properly -- that boded well for the future.)

      Knew a guy -- he was nice but clueless. After a few months they added him to the on-call rotation. Monday morning, big uproar. Off call people had to babysit and restart the customer facing app multiple times. Where was the on-call guy? After a while h
      • by plopez ( 54068 )

        When you buy flying pigs, that black gooey stinky sticky stuff tends to get everywhere.

  • If a US university cant produce the workers needed, no students would bother to attend any US university for any advanced degree..
    So its not a skills issue. The US education system is still offering the education people can use.
    No rush to other advanced nations for a better, more useful education.
    So US workers out of the better US university settings or in the work force are still smart enough globally.

    Can a brand tell the entire USA about a job on offer? Thanks to the internet that distance or
    • If a US university cant produce the workers needed, no students would bother to attend any US university for any advanced degree..

      If you come on a student visa, you have find an H1B job within 6 months of graduating or go back. So many of them actually have US education. The only way to fix this is to eliminate H1B visas and give them green cards from day one.

      • by AHuxley ( 892839 )
        Any nations education visa is not some instant citizenship win or a full time work permit once full or part time or further education is over.
        The graduate can return to their own country, apply for a job in the USA given the skills they now have, then get the correct work related paperwork to work full time in the USA.
        If any nation only offers a restricted education visa and will not offer any later employment visa, thats the normal risk anyone education shopping takes.
        Full employment for decades in som
  • For a few years now I've seen posts on Slashdot saying that H1B visa workers work for lower salaries or longer hours than other workers. What geographic location is this? What field? Because that doesn't jive with my experience at all.

    I have been writing software for almost 20 years. For 17 of those years, I have worked in Maryland and Washington DC along side H1B visa workers. They work the same hours as everyone else on the team, with the same expectations, for the same salary range. They are subject to the same labor protection laws as everyone else. What idiotic manager would hire a less qualified software engineer for 10% less? Everybody I know takes the most qualified person possible within the salary range.

    The real salary question is: Are H1B salaries significantly lower comparable green-card holders? Foreigners typically make less than their native counterparts because they have poorer communication skills since they were born overseas, and because there is a significant risk that they will up and leave for their home country. In the case of H1B workers, the company has to pay for sponsorship and probably can only bring them on as a contractor through a third-party. So all that will affect their salary. But these stories of H1Bs working 80 hours for 20% less money doesn't jive.

    • They are subject to the same labor protection laws as everyone else.

      Oh? I had no idea that all programmers face deportation within 6 months if they get fired.

      What idiotic manager would hire a less qualified software engineer for 10% less?

      What idiotic manager would not hire an employee of equal skill, but who can be pressed to work longer hours without compensation, over a citizen who can simply change profession if gets tired of this type of environment?

      • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

        I had no idea that all programmers face deportation within 6 months if they get fired

        Nope, just H1Bs. Also: it's 60-days, not 6 months.

        What idiotic manager would not hire an employee of equal skill

        Interviewing doesn't work that way. There's no such thing as equal skill. Everyone has advantages and disadvantages. Companies that are large enough to sponsor H1B visa workers aren't splitting hairs over 10% salary differences.

        but who can be pressed to work longer hours without compensation

        Who? Where? What field? You are just repeating the claim. I am trying to figure out who this is happening to. I know it isn't Software engineers. So who is it? Do you know any?

    • The problem is with a few IT body shops that specialize in outsourcing. Not off-shoring. See: http://www.epi.org/blog/new-da... [epi.org]

      The idea is for places to simply close down their internal IT shop and send the work out to one of these hives. Often with the soon-to-be laid off current IT workers having to do a knowledge transfer for their foreign replacements. The use case of a few developers hired into a team to work along side them as equals is still not great, but it is not the source of most of the
      • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

        I've heard about Tata. Is Cap Gemini that same way?

        I know a local company that just outsourced most of their IT department to Cap Gemini. I know much of Cap Gemini's workforce is overseas. I've been politely listening, but so far no one has mentioned any H1B visa workers involved. Slashdot has had a few articles on the topic, but I have yet to see any real evidence that H1B was involved in these cases.

        I agree about permanent residency. I work with some H1Bs who would love citizenship, and are absolutel

    • Here is the list of H1B companies [myvisajobs.com]. Notice which ones pay a lot, which don't pay much. Chances are you aren't working at the companies that pay so little, because they're miserable places to work. Chances are, the people who work with you will still be able to get visas.
      • by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

        Thanks for the link. That's a good start. We can try to guess what the fields are from the job titles. Hmmm... This link [myvisajobs.com] shows it by occupation. That's interesting.

        Okay, so this is painting a picture for me. There are two kinds of H1Bs. One kind is hired by a company that does actual work and makes an actual product: Apple, Microsoft, Intel. Those H1B visa workers are probably not being abused, and they probably aren't displacing American workers. Those are the kind I know. The other kind is the IT

  • Silicon Valley does not have a monopoly on writing software. If not for our carefully cultivated brain drain, these graduates from world's top universities would have started companies where they live. Look where most of world's smartphone makers are. Federal government, please do not mess with our tech OR agricultural immigration that you simply do not understand. It's as idiotic as Republicans talking about female reproductive system or Democrats talking about guns.

  • So one in ten jobs were shipped overseas.

    It's probably more complicated, in the sense that the jobs were going away anyhow many times, and companies like Intel just outsource for the end of a lifecycle of whatever system. I can definitely see companies and analysts responding with something like that.

    At the same time, for all we know this 11% figure is low. Look at what data they used.

    There's no denying that outsourcing has been abused and that the rules are tipped in favor of large company profits over nee

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