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Education Programming Government Java Software Hardware

Arizona Bill Would Make Students In Grades 4-12 Participate Once In An Hour of Code (azpbs.org) 142

Posted by BeauHD from the hour-of-code dept.
theodp writes: Christopher Silavong of Cronkite News reports: "A bill, introduced by [Arizona State] Sen. John Kavanagh [R-Fountain Hills] would mandate that public and charter schools provide one hour of coding instruction once between grades 4 to 12. Kavanagh said it's critical for students to learn the language -- even if it's only one session -- so they can better compete for jobs in today's world. However, some legislators don't believe a state mandate is the right approach. Senate Bill 1136 has passed the Senate, and it's headed to the House of Representatives. Kavanagh said he was skeptical about coding and its role in the future. But he changed his mind after learning that major technology companies were having trouble finding domestic coders and talking with his son, who works at a tech company." According to the Bill, the instruction can "be offered by either a nationally recognized nonprofit organization [an accompanying Fact Sheet mentions tech-backed Code.org] that is devoted to expanding access to computer science or by an entity with expertise in providing instruction to pupils on interactive computer instruction that is aligned to the academic standards."
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Arizona Bill Would Make Students In Grades 4-12 Participate Once In An Hour of Code More

Arizona Bill Would Make Students In Grades 4-12 Participate Once In An Hour of Code

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  • History repeat itself. (Score:3)

    by lucasnate1 ( 4682951 ) on Saturday February 25, 2017 @05:15AM (#53928223) Homepage

    In the past schools' main purpose was to teach children how to be cheap industry workers. This feels like the past may be coming back.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      On the side of the people driving this, yes, very likely. It is doomed to fail completely though, because coding is about as far as you can get from typical industrial work. What these morons are overlooking is that there is no mass-production stage with coding and that is exactly where most cheap industrial jobs are found.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by rtb61 ( 674572 )

        Hmm, are you drunk or stoned. One hour of computer programming instruction in 9 years, what are they going to learn. This is a computer, this is how you turn it own, this is a programming language (what ever the language is), to put output on screen type this in - 'print(hello, world)', end of instruction. Seriously WHAT THE FUCK, the paper the legislation was written on was a fucking waste of paper. For fuck sake, want to teach computer programming then it has to be at minimum 2 hours a week for the full s

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by gweihir ( 88907 )

          Hmm, are you drunk or stoned.

          That seems to actually apply to you, because you missed that I was very clearly not talking about teaching it only for 1 hour. I was talking about teaching it with a real effort behind it. Still an utter fail.

    • In the past schools' main purpose was to teach children how to be cheap industry workers. This feels like the past may be coming back.

      What you say is correct [wikipedia.org], except that 'the past' isn't coming back, because it never left. Also, the real purpose of public education goes far beyond creating a cheap workforce [4brevard.com]. And lest you think that latter page is the fantasy of conspiracy theory nutters, read Gatto's 'Underground History of American Education', then check the references he sites. American public schools were designed, and are being maintained and modified on an ongoing basis, specifically to stunt the intellectual and emotional growth of

    • Exposing kids who otherwise would not try coding is a good thing.

      This effort won't make coders, and certainly not developers, unless the kids take it up as a hobby. Cheap coders is the goal, but you will get the kind you can automate out of a job.

      Overall, I support exposure to any use of cold, hard logic that won't let you get close enough. It works or it doesn't, use your brain.

    • Teaching has always been about imparting useful or downright necessary skills to young people. What people forget is that it is society (specifically the job market) that decides what skills are useful and necessary. Not the individual (except for exceptional individuals, who may end up famous or millionaire, or both), and not most not parents either.

      There's nothing wrong with that. Parents or children don't usually know what's worth learning (unless they've had a successful career). So keeping an eye on

  • One hour: (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    This is clever, but I don't think it's as clever as they think it is. And I don't think they intended it to be clever.

    If there's an hour of coding class in school at some point, that means that would-be nerds will be introduced to it, and if they like it then they can look into it themselves. Non would-be nerds would have an hour of weird confusing shit and then never have to worry about it again. That's the clever bit, it's cheap and it doesn't force kids to do stuff.

    BUT. If the one hour is shit then it'll

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by imidan ( 559239 )
      Fine. But the answer isn't for the legislature to pass a law. It's for teachers to pick up a great program that works some programming skills into their normal lessons. Get a little bit of coding into a few lessons that actually mean something to the kids, rather than having a special hour where you baffle them with programming bullshit. And in that scenario, all we need to do is spend a little money developing classroom curricula for teachers who can use them to teach a lesson+programming.

  • Too little at any time (Score:2, Insightful)

    by imidan ( 559239 )

    One hour of code between grades 4-12.

    So, a fourth grader can learn to move the turtle to make a shape.

    Or, a twelfth grader can learn how to make html, head, body, and a few divs.

    Surely, this will save us from our dire STEM shortage.

    • Re:Too little at any time (Score:5, Interesting)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Saturday February 25, 2017 @07:17AM (#53928369) Homepage Journal

      That's literally how I got started. At pre-school, age 3, we had a toy tank thing with a keypad on the top. You entered a little program, pressed "go" and off it went.

      The understanding that I could program machines lead me to learn BASIC from the manual that came with my first computer. These days I'm an embedded software engineer.

      • This. School isn't about making experts in the subjects, there's simply no time for that. It's about enough exposure to different subjects so you can (a) find your own thing, and (b) get some idea of the wide and diverse world you'll be living in.

        Incidentally, I'm about to teach a small course/workshop in algorithmic art at a local school. I'm not expecting all of them to become algorithmic artists, but I hope they'll learn something about using math and code to express their ideas.

    • I remember I had a whole semester at some point in grade school where I had to sit in front of a computer and use some stupid educational application that made me move a turtle around from one point to another.
      It's only when I got to college and one of our instructors mentioned Logo that I realized I was supposed to be learning a programming language.
      I can't even imagine what infinitesimal fraction of an impression an hour would leave, I doubt you could even fully teach how a for loop works in that amount t

      • Logo was a great idea but became prominent at a time when kids where starting to realise computers could do better. The C64/Amstrad/Sinclair/BBC/Apple-II all had Basic which could be coopted into doing real games and thanks to PEEK POKE and CALL provided a springboard for the more enterprising kids to start poking around with machine code..

        Logo however was a decent language. It was list processing, functional (It was, in fact a lisp derivative of sorts) , and generally taught good code hygiene. It didnt hav

    • One hour of code between grades 4-12.

      So, a fourth grader can learn to move the turtle to make a shape.

      Or, a twelfth grader can learn how to make html, head, body, and a few divs.

      Surely, this will save us from our dire STEM shortage.

      As opposed to zero hours of code which will do nothing other than keep people even more ignorant of what it is to bend a computer to one's will?

      Why does every solution have to be all or nothing on Slashdot?

      • Time is finite and even an hour counts. When schools aren't even teaching Econ, Civics or proper history, teaching programming is low on my priority list. Hell, *graduating* students are almost illiterate and innumerate now. Let's correct that first before subtracting an hour by making it mandatory to teach programming, which requires both.

    • At least they will have a basic understanding of what code does, which is problem solving. That alone could save millions in technical support in their daily lives in the future.
  • "it's critical for students to learn the language" The actual article mentions JavaScript. Is this "the language" students must learn?
    • The "language" is the language of programming. Basic structures like loops, if/then statements, variables, arrays, etc...
      If you give students those basic building blocks, then they can apply that knowledge to ANY language.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        That language does not exist. Because, surprise!, there are real programming languages that do not have these!

        But I guess you have never heard of logical and functional programming languages.

  • It might add some small amount of coders to the workforce who would otherwise have never tried it out. But, that is probably insignificant. What I'm more interested in is priming people to "get" tech.

    Working at small non-tech companies for the past ~5 years really opened my eyes to how completely unready for tech most people are. Old, young, it doesn't matter -- so many people have no comprehension of what developers do beyond maybe "magic", and practically shut down when asked to participate.

    We don't need

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      You cannot get people there. This is abstract skill, and even those with talent and the will to learn struggle at them. May well ask everybody to get how surgery works, or how to do the static design for a building. Cannot be done.

  • Arizona Bill...

    That sounds like the name of a gunslinger that just blew into town. Not only can he handle his six shooters, he's also the fastest guy on a Dvorak keyboard in six states and he writes C code faster than a pony express rider with a Comanche war party on his heels ... nah, that doesn't sound quite right but still cooler than a dull old state senate bill.

    • ah, that doesn't sound quite right but still cooler than a dull old state senate bill.

      Let's put him in a room with Florida Man and see who makes it out alive.

  • One hour of basketball dunking per day. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by geekmux ( 1040042 ) on Saturday February 25, 2017 @07:50AM (#53928449)

    I think it should be mandatory that all college freshman students participate in one hour of basketball dunking per day.

    Oh, you mean not every 18-year old is over 6 feet tall, and possesses the athletic ability to dunk a basketball?

    Gosh, that must mean that not everyone is cut out for it. You know, kind of like coding, so how about we stop with this pointless "mandatory" bullshit already.

    Looking for a skill that would truly benefit future generations? Perhaps we should mandate an hour of studying the Constitution every day, for an enslaved society is still enslaved, no matter how skilled they are.

    • Perhaps we should mandate an hour of studying the Constitution every day, for an enslaved society is still enslaved, no matter how skilled they are.

      If they did that, they would just tell you what to think about it just like they did when they taught you about it the first time. You know, the constitution was all sunshine and kittens there for our benefit. Remember that? More of that won't help.

    • I think it should be mandatory that all college freshman students participate in one hour of basketball dunking per day.

      PE is required in most schools as far as I know.

      Even in college I had mandatory physical education classes I had to take. I could chose the subject but I had to take something.

      I actually don't think it's bad to expose all students to coding, even those who might be bad at it - because you also never know who might be good at it or enjoy it. If it were a whole class I would say it's proba

    • But we do introduce the game of basketball to students in phys ed. Some students won't have been exposed to it until then, and maybe it's a thing they like to do. We introduce a lot of different physical activities in phys ed class. That's what it's for!

      You're not going to write a AAA game or whatever in hour-of-code class, but you're not going to do nothing but dunk in 40minutes of basketball class, either. In both cases you're going to go over just enough of the basics to hopefully have 5-10 minutes at th

    • Our schools (generally speaking currently mandate 3-4 *years* of PE and 0 years of computer science.

      Some students are terrible at PE. So what? We make them do it anyway. These might even be the same students that excel at computer science, if the stereotypes are true.

      But this isn't even a mandated year of CS. It's a bloody single hour, lodged somewhere in between the 4th and 12th grades. If you think we can't spare a single hour for coding, I don't know what to tell you.

      The biggest obstacle to CS education

  • This is against my deeply held religious beliefs. They want to teach young impressionable children how to feed the Beast! /s

  • Coding IS the new slide rule (Score:4, Insightful)

    by cellocgw ( 617879 ) <cellocgw&gmail,com> on Saturday February 25, 2017 @08:41AM (#53928585) Journal

    You may not believe it, but back in the pre-1970s, every student taking science courses was expected to learn how to use a slide rule. Sometimes it was a similar one-hour intro, sometimes it came with the curriculum.

    Programming high-level languages is the slide rule of the current era. Despite what many people think(cough cough Excel cough), you simply cannot be a scientist or engineer if you can't write decent code in, say R or python or Matlab.

    • C'mon, kids today aren't learning to use the slide rule!? Say it isn't so. In 1990 (12th Grade) we had two hours of class dedicated to the slide rule. In 1983ish we had 4-12 hours for programming.

      This is why our country is screwed. We have sabotaged education.

    • You may not believe it, but back in the pre-1970s, every student taking science courses was expected to learn how to use a slide rule.

      Untrue. I graduated high school in '67. You could make that statement true if you say certain elective science courses.

    • Programming high-level languages is the slide rule of the current era. Despite what many people think(cough cough Excel cough), you simply cannot be a scientist or engineer if you can't write decent code in, say R or python or Matlab.

      I know lots of EE's and they don't write code, they spec turbine sizes, and transformers, and other such things. Most civil engineers and mechanical engineers don't need any coding knowledge either.

      • You are wrong. How do you think an EE picks the right transformer? From a sales catalog? You think a Mech E doesn't need to be able to run FMEA?
        Please tell us what company you work for so we can buy reliable products from your competitors.

  • English lessons (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Dunbal ( 464142 ) * on Saturday February 25, 2017 @09:23AM (#53928719)
    English lessons force everyone to do some writing too, yet how many students actually become authors. And of these, how many become authors BECAUSE of the grammar and language lessons they received?

  • When I was in 6th grade, we had a semester of shop class and a semester of home economics.
    (In previous generations, the boys had a year of shop and the girls had a year of home ec.)
    It all seemed kind of hokey: it was clearly a vestige of an earlier time, but, whatever.

    Anyway, if you want to expose everyone to computers, that's the place to slot it in:
    a semester or a year of computer class in 6th grade.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by plopez ( 54068 )

      I took several shop classes and they were great. In High School we had a choice of 2 semesters of shop, two semesters of home ec. or one of shop and one of home Ec.

      So I took woods (great for learning about wood and power tool safety), plastics (some of us made bongs, I made ice scrapers and name tags), and basic electronics.
      Take the basic electronics and turn it into a hardware/software class and you are done.

  • Why not just use this hour to train them to be plumbers or electricians? They are far more likely to be able to solder two copper pipes together or wire a light switch in an hour than produce anything tangible with a computer program.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by plopez ( 54068 )

      That is soooo low caste. You think mummy and daddy want Jody and Buffy to burns their precious little fingers on hot solder? We'll have Jesus and Billy Bob do those jobs.

  • The sole purpose of this is so that some politician can claim "I proposed legislation to ensure that all grade-school children in this state are taught programming" next time they're up for re-election. It doesn't matter if the bill passes or fails, it doesn't matter if what the kids are to be taught amounts to one hour over eight years of schooling or a full hour a week for the full eight years of grades 4-12, since all this is really about is to get a line on a politician's resume that shows how *deeply*

  • One, this is oddly progressive for the predominantly republican state of Arizona.

    Two, I don't think it's a good idea. Not everyone has the special talent for programming. Others (myself included) are marginally decent at it, but still have no desire to actually do it. Those who have the interest and drive to learn how to do it usually end up doing it on their own. It's not like you need to access to a school's computer lab these days, you can write code on a smartphone. Granted, that's far from optimal, but

  • I hear all this talk about learning "The Language". And I am reminded of the Edsger Dijkstra / folklore quote "Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes." IMHO, kids need to learn some basics of the machine and what it does, before going into learning a language to do those things. (And yes, I am aware of the Bill Gates quote that seems to say the opposite (if taken without context). But I'm not a big MS fan, so maybe I'm biased against Gates in any case.)

    On the other h

  • I don't understand why coding is treated like a simple skill, similar to, say, typing, that anyone can learn. I'm not saying you need a talent, but definitely not everybody can code, and even fewer can produce quality code. And there is nothing worse than poorly written code created by someone who learned to code to get a high-paying job, but who doesn't really get coding. You know, unnecessarily complex and convoluted, full of bugs, impossible to debug or rewrite part of it. When it's easier and faster to

  • There's too many coders as it is.

  • Accessing FTP sites with Java and/or Python. It will be great training. See article above this.

  • tick tock (Score:4, Informative)

    by bugs2squash ( 1132591 ) on Saturday February 25, 2017 @10:43PM (#53932045)

    Assuming the teacher knows what they are doing, that scratch is up and running on machines before the class starts, that there is enough equipment for 1 PC/ipad per student, that there are a few adult volunteers to help kickstart the kids. Then they can learn something worthwhile in that hour.

    They will learn if they like doing this kind of thing and they will learn that it is easy and they will learn that they can download scratch to their PC at home or their school ipad and play around with it on their own.

    I know it works because I have led a one-off class like that at an elementary school (after hours) and a few of the kids came up to me weeks later and said that they had got into programming scratch because of it and they entered scratch projects at the science fair

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