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Oracle Tells Supreme Court Google Copyright Breach Knocked It Out Of Smartphone Market (crn.com) 290

Joseph Tsidulko, writing for CRN: Oracle asked the U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday to not review an appellate court's decision finding Google violated Oracle's copyright of the Java platform when building the Android mobile operating system. In that opposition brief, Oracle's attorneys said Google's copyright violation shut Oracle, the Java platform owner, out of the emerging smartphone market, causing incalculable harm to its business. The complex case pitting two Silicon Valley giants against each other has raged on since 2010, and already saw many twists in turns before a circuit court last year reversed a jury decision in favor of Oracle. That prompted Google's appeal to the nation's highest court. Oracle notes Google had previously asked for a writ of certiorari -- the legal term for review by the high court -- in 2015 without success in an earlier phase of the case, and the company argues nothing has changed in the time since.

Oracle believes Google destroyed its hopes of competing as a smartphone platform developer with the Java platform, which enables development and execution of software written in Java, including through APIs that access a vast software library. The lawsuit alleged Google copied those APIs without a proper license. Java was developed at Sun Microsystems, which Oracle acquired in 2010. "Google's theory is that, having invested all those resources to create a program popular with platform developers and app programmers alike, Oracle should be required to let a competitor copy its code so that it can coopt the fan base to create its own best-selling sequel," Oracle's brief states.

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Oracle Tells Supreme Court Google Copyright Breach Knocked It Out Of Smartphone Market

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  • Who do I root for?

    Hopefully this will be a very long, messy, and expensive legal battle for both companies.

    • by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @10:40AM (#58348196) Journal

      Who do I root for?

      Oracle is trying to trick the courts into allowing the copyrighting of interfaces. Before it was mostly limited implementation. Thus, Oracle is potentially doing more damage to the legal system.

      • by presidenteloco ( 659168 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @11:37AM (#58348614)
        and taking "back" control of the mobile platform.
        Maybe it would have had to rebrand it. e.g. Orafix, Mava (mobile java),..., what have you.

        Nothing stopped Oracle from pulling a CyanogenMod move, but backed by Oracle's money.

        Nothing except lack of willpower, imagination, and skill.
        • by Gojira Shipi-Taro ( 465802 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @12:32PM (#58349020) Homepage

          When you lay people off regularly to maintain an environment of fear, the truely talented go elsewhere, or avoid you entirely. Meanwhile those left are more concerned with survival than innovation.

        • by UnknownSoldier ( 67820 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @01:13PM (#58349322)

          I think the bigger question is:

          If Google was able to bring out a Smart Phone what stopped Oracle from doing the same before Google in the early 2000's? Seems like Oracle is whining about not being able to ride on the coattails of a competitor AFTER the fact. Notice how Oracle bought Sun AFTER Android was released.

          Timeline for those that forgot the details:

          *Java came out in 1995.
          * Google announced Android in 2007 and shipped the first device in 2008.
          * Oracle bought Sun in 2010.
          --
          The Lie of Islam: God commanded his children to kill one another.

        • by Altus ( 1034 )

          And a good way to make money. Google makes money off android with data gathering, use of google services for more data gathering and then ultimately advertising. What is Oracle going to do? Charge phone manufacturers for use of their OS that is identical to googles? They aren't set up to make money off of something like android.

        • Oracle didn't want to be in the smartphone market. They just wanted to get X% of all smartphone sales by requiring fees of everyone who uses Java.

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • How is this ANY different than the MS Java case?

          Microsoft agreed to abide by Sun's licensing terms in exchange for being allowed to call J# an implementation of Java. Microsoft violated those terms by making J# incompatible with Java.

          Google copied the interface specification, wrote its entirely own implementation, and made it quite clear that it was NOT Java; but rather had a high degree of compatibility with certain parts of Java.

          These cases could hardly be any more different. They are nearly polar opposites.

          Given that, Google was really stupid about the whole thing. It should have started with the GPL'd Java, stripped out the parts not wanted for Android, then GPL'd the whole thing. Tada! A clean and completely unassailable (through copyright) Android. Plus many millions of litigation dollars saved.

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by StormReaver ( 59959 )

            Dammit! Why the hell doesn't Slashdot provide a preview feature before posting!?

            Oh, wait.

            This is how it should have looked:

            How is this ANY different than the MS Java case?

            Microsoft agreed to abide by Sun's licensing terms in exchange for being allowed to call J# an implementation of Java. Microsoft violated those terms by making J# incompatible with Java.

            Google copied the interface specification, wrote its entirely own implementation, and made it quite clear that it was NOT Java; but rather had a high degree of compatibility with certain parts of Java.

            T

            • by sfcat ( 872532 )

              Google copied the interface specification, wrote its entirely own implementation, and made it quite clear that it was NOT Java; but rather had a high degree of compatibility with certain parts of Java.

              These cases could hardly be any more different. They are nearly polar opposites.

              Given that, Google was really stupid about the whole thing. It should have started with the GPL'd Java, stripped out the parts not wanted for Android, then GPL'd the whole thing. Tada! A clean and completely unassailable (through copyright) Android. Plus many millions of litigation dollars saved.

              That's not strictly true. Google did more than that. They copied much more than just the interfaces. Then all they had to do is NOT remove Oracle's name from the source code. Somehow that's the one thing that Google did. The secondary issues here are big but the core issue is one of utter stupidity (and seemingly ego) on Google's part. Other companies do this all the time without violating the license of the original code. Somehow, Google was unable to do that and scrubbed out Oracle's name everywher

      • Exactly. It's funny because it's a repeat of the battle over Java vs J++ over 20 years ago.

        • by sfcat ( 872532 )

          Exactly. It's funny because it's a repeat of the battle over Java vs J++ over 20 years ago.

          Its not. MS was making an intentionally incompatible version of Java. Google wasn't trying to do and didn't do that. This is about Google not being able to follow basic legal advice. Its also a pretty damning indictment of problem's in Google's management as this is caused by simple ego and not some complex legal trip up.

    • by green1 ( 322787 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @10:44AM (#58348214)
      Well, you could maybe look at what the argument is, instead of who brought it forward. I know it's cool to hate on the big companies, and we all know it's well deserved, but who the players are should not affect the merit, or lack thereof, of any particular argument.

      In this particular case, you root for Google. Not because Google is in any way "good" or "not evil", but because Oracle is trying to ensure that no company can ever make anything interoperable with another company's stuff ever again. There is no accusation that Google copied code, only that they re-implemented the API. A strict interpretation in favour of Oracle would mean that you could never use anyone's API to interface with them without violating their copyright (or paying royalties, etc) This would be a very dangerous precedent.
    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @11:42AM (#58348662) Homepage Journal

      Hopefully this will be a very long, messy, and expensive legal battle for both companies.

      But then the lawyers win, and as terrible as Oracle and Google may be nothing justifies the lawyers winning.

    • for instance, how's it going to work putting an antenna on a SunServer and carrying it on the bus to talk to your significant other.

  • by IWantMoreSpamPlease ( 571972 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @10:45AM (#58348222) Homepage Journal

    A smartphone developed by Oracle?
    I've been fortunate enough never to have crossed paths with Oracle's infamous licensing terms, but I could picture it now:

    Every time you used your phone for any purpose whatsoever, you'd have to pay a fee to Oracle.

    • A smartphone developed by Oracle?
      I've been fortunate enough never to have crossed paths with Oracle's infamous licensing terms, but I could picture it now:

      Every time you used your phone for any purpose whatsoever, you'd have to pay a fee to Oracle.

      This was my first thought also. WTF would by an Oracle phone? Google, for all their faults, at least provides some value. Oracle is just a douchey company with little redeeming value at all.

      • by sfcat ( 872532 )

        A smartphone developed by Oracle? I've been fortunate enough never to have crossed paths with Oracle's infamous licensing terms, but I could picture it now:

        Every time you used your phone for any purpose whatsoever, you'd have to pay a fee to Oracle.

        This was my first thought also. WTF would by an Oracle phone? Google, for all their faults, at least provides some value. Oracle is just a douchey company with little redeeming value at all.

        Hahahahahaha, no...If I want my data lost and my queries to fail, I look to Google. If I actually want performance and accuracy of the result, then I use Postgres or Oracle. Google is a good search engine and once upon a time they made great software. 2008 was a long time ago and almost everything coming out of Google these days is crap. As bad as dealing with Oracle business folk is, at least I won't get hung out to dry by their software (well maybe but far less than with Google). Something I absolute

    • > Java licenses are free to developers, but companies incorporating the technology into their platforms are required to pay, Oracle said.

      > But Google rejected a deal for the proper Oracle license because it didn't want to meet Oracle's demands for Java compatibility—it didn't want Android apps to run on other platforms, Oracle said in the brief.

      > That strategy ultimately prevented Oracle from licensing and competing in the developing smartphone market.

      But seriously, what was their phone strat

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • A smartphone developed by Oracle?
      I've been fortunate enough never to have crossed paths with Oracle's infamous licensing terms, but I could picture it now:

      Every time you used your phone for any purpose whatsoever, you'd have to pay a fee to Oracle.

      Also, for not using it when they thought you should have.

  • So it's devolved to the level where Oracle is little more than a gigantic patent troll so Larry can have a bigger sailboat. F#ck them all, Larry, Oracle and that spyware company, Google..
    • So it's devolved to the level where Oracle is little more than a gigantic patent troll so Larry can have a bigger sailboat.

      They're a lot more than that. They also have a bunch of lawyers just for suing their customers.

    • So it's devolved to the level where Oracle is little more than a gigantic patent troll so Larry can have a bigger sailboat.

      Did you fall asleep in 2005 and just wake up?

    • by msauve ( 701917 )
      ORACLE: One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison.
  • That would be glorious - Oracle phone running Java Applet with MS Clippy.
  • by SpeedRacer ( 41138 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @10:57AM (#58348302)

    Oracle was in the smartphone market?!? When the heck was that?

  • Wait, what? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 28, 2019 @11:01AM (#58348332)

    Oracle's argument is: I couldn't go to the party because Google was already there wearing the dress I wanted to wear?

  • Thank you! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AVryhof ( 142320 ) <amos.vryhofresearch@com> on Thursday March 28, 2019 @11:13AM (#58348422) Homepage
    We should make Google a Thank You card for keeping Oracle out of the Smartphone market.
  • Oracle has caused a lot of harm to java with this litigation, with its bad handling of security issues and its general bad governance. The fact that Google has made so much effort to use java in android is a testimony to the qualities of this language.
    • And by "qualities" we're talking about, millions of jr. level programmers around the world already know it, and so they can spew out Appy Apps.

  • by Locutus ( 9039 ) on Thursday March 28, 2019 @11:21AM (#58348478)
    When Google came on board with Dalvick, Sun was having a grand time putting JAVA in the browser and on the server. Those wanting to put it into embedded devices, it's original intent, were ignored by Sun Microsystems. As HP about that since they wanted to license JAVA for use in their printers but Sun would not address their requests for licensing. HP had to do a clean-room implementation which they called Chai or something like that( as in the tea ). No doubt there were many others since we all know HP is no small printer manufacturer and landing them would have been a large deal.

    But somehow we are to expect, or the judges are, that it was all Google's fault? Java on mobile phones, back when phones were not very smart, was a mess with many different layers of API's to follow. I forget what they called that mobile version of JAVA but each phone vendor had different application stores and different application requirements.

    Apple showed that the market for downloading applications on mobile devices was viable again( remember Palm did it years before ) and Google just followed their lead. Had the phone vendors considered their Sun JAVA mobile API's sufficient they could have competed but they were stuck with what Sun provided and it was not really so good for the rich smartphone OS which was becoming the norm.

    Oracle purchased Sun thinking they'd leverage JAVA everywhere but Sun left the mobile market and focused on the server side and browser...

    LoB
    • by sconeu ( 64226 )

      I forget what they called that mobile version of JAVA

      I believe it was, oddly enough, Java ME (Mobile Edition)

  • No seriously, that might as well be the excuse from Oracle. They are pretty much saying "since Google used this language/API that we wanted to patent troll AFTER they forked it and already had Android all rolling, we pretty much can't be on that market, because the way we WOULD be on that market was to do nothing more than demand royalties from Google by using this technology that we simply purchased without actually thinking through that it was OPEN SOURCE BEFORE".

    I could say this is funny. But it is actua

  • We all remember those beautiful sleek end-user friendly and exciting products from Oracle, before evil Google came along and destroyed de poor liddle Oracle and their beautiful consumer products lineup.

    Sooo mean, sooo sad.

  • I'd be more inclined to buy a phone branded Etch-A-Sketch than Oracle.

  • Oracle had such overwhelming success with SPARC chips, how about a SPARC T4 [wikipedia.org] in a smartphone? It could also act as a handwarmer. Let's see Apple top that!
  • No one stops Oracle to take Android (or would they need to pay a license fee?) and sell their own Android device.

    However if they put their Oracle database on it, I would ski :P

  • And I say that as an atheist. Oracle is the proverbial Evil Inc. that only cares about fucking its customers over.

  • Suing Google for using Java for Android pretty much guarantees the death of Java!
  • They did the same damned thing to my company. I tell you, if it weren't for them and their Java rip-off, everybody would be making cell phones.

  • If Oracle had the vision at the time, Google using the same platform for app development would have helped them significantly.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

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