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Microsoft Programming The Internet Technology

Microsoft Launches Visual Studio 2019 For Windows and Mac (venturebeat.com) 93

An anonymous reader writes: Microsoft today announced that Visual Studio 2019 for Windows and Mac has hit general availability — you can download it now from visualstudio.microsoft.com/downloads. Visual Studio 2019 includes AI-assisted code completion with Visual Studio IntelliCode. Separately, real-time collaboration tool Visual Studio Live Share has also hit general availability, and is now included with Visual Studio 2019.
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Microsoft Launches Visual Studio 2019 For Windows and Mac

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  • Noooo! (Score:1, Insightful)

    On windows I have to install a nightmare package of huge blobs of software to compile a C program, and then I find it doesn't even have getopt and the resulting executable is buried 6 levels down in an undocumented build directory.

    On a macintosh or a linux machine, I can type gcc my_program.c -o my_program and I'm done.

    • Re:Noooo! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by slack_justyb ( 862874 ) on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @01:41PM (#58373138)

      On a macintosh or a linux machine, I can type gcc my_program.c -o my_program and I'm done

      I myself being a person who favors Unix can definitely attest to how much I like how easy simple things can be done on these systems. That said, if compiling a single C file is what you're attempting to do, Visual Studio is absolutely not the correct tool for you. Microsoft's Visual Studio is a tool that is refined to develop Microsoft style development on Microsoft stacks. It works okay for other styles and stack, but this IDE is finely crafted, honed, and a juggernaut in sheer power for development in Microsoft land. If Microsoft isn't your bread and butter, yeah, you'll find better tools out there by the dozens. But if your shop is eyebrows deep in Mircosoft, there's few things that compare to this IDE.

      Get the right tool for what you need always. VS is tool that shines best for a select number of use cases that all in one way or another favor Microsoft's thinking for development and their stack of development/deployment. Don't fool yourself into thinking that there is any one single tool that rules them all and does everything the absolutely best way possible.

      • This is true. My SW development is mostly around coming up with better algorithms for data analysis and sticking them in a command line wrapper to test.

        Graphics is what pyplot does.

      • by Kjella ( 173770 )

        That said, if compiling a single C file is what you're attempting to do, Visual Studio is absolutely not the correct tool for you.

        Yeah that example was just cringy, it's like showing how massive overkill Photoshop is to crop a photo. The problem is more often like being in a well stocked workshop, the tool you need is guaranteed here but it's actually hard to find the right one and each has a ton of options and configuration settings. Not to mention all the little time savers you find where Intellisense saves you 30 seconds you'd spend in a dumber tool figuring it out. It doesn't make bad coders good coders, but it makes good coders e

        • by pjt33 ( 739471 )

          I think that overall the time saved by Intellisense getting it right is less than the time wasted by it autocompleting the wrong thing. Lambdas are a particular problem: I type the variable name for the parameter and Intellisense wants to replace it with a variable that's already in scope.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        If they could get a decent GCC toolchain working with Visual Studio Code it would be a pretty decent environment.

        I do find it odd that Microsoft never standardized their own version of getopt though. The don't seem to be big on standardization.

      • Visual Studio was also a terrible tool for a giant project, and there was major improvements made by ditching it (except for a windows based simulator) and using a basic Makefile system with gcc instead.

        (this was not for a windows application, so using VS in the first place was a major foul up)

      • refined to develop Microsoft style development

        Ewwwww. Nasty.

    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by KlomDark ( 6370 )

      OMG! On Visual Studio I just have to hit CTRL-SHIFT-B (For Build) and it builds the code, and I don't even have to type anything obscure like

      gcc my_program.c -o my_program

      Is that better for you?

    • Re:Noooo! (Score:4, Informative)

      by rastos1 ( 601318 ) on Wednesday April 03, 2019 @01:22AM (#58376364)

      On a macintosh or a linux machine, I can type gcc my_program.c -o my_program and I'm done.

      I love to bash MS just like the next /. reader, but compare apples to apples:

      C:\w>echo int main(int argc,char *argv[]){return 0;} >foo.c

      C:\w>cl foo.c
      Microsoft (R) C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 19.16.27027.1 for x86
      Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

      foo.c
      Microsoft (R) Incremental Linker Version 14.16.27027.1
      Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

      /out:foo.exe
      foo.obj
      C:\w>dir foo*
      ...
      04/03/2019 08:16 AM 46 foo.c
      04/03/2019 08:16 AM 78,336 foo.exe
      04/03/2019 08:16 AM 564 foo.obj

      Now compare how you display STL container or string in GDB and Visual Studio.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    No free version is available. Visual Studio Community is quite different from Visual Studio Express.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Visual Studio Express was discontinued a decade ago. Community edition is unencumbered, and superior in literally every way. Leave the coding to actual coders.

      • by truedfx ( 802492 )
        "Unencumbered" is not wholly true. Visual Studio Express was free of charge for all. Visual Studio Community cannot legally be used by many companies.
    • by labnet ( 457441 )

      Yes this.
      Microsoft push VS community edition, as Free, Use ME!!, but when you read the licensing conditions, it can only be used by micro businesses commercially.
      Look, here is their web site,

      Visual Studio Express
      Download Visual Studio Community for a fully-featured and extensible IDE; An updated alternative to Visual Studio Express....

      Liars...I wonder how many companies haven’t read the licensing terms and are not compliant.

      Scroll to the bottom of that page and you will find links to to Microsoft VS E

  • by ASCIIxTended ( 4777373 ) on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @01:48PM (#58373214)

    I know there are a lot of haters here, most of whom I'm sure have never used it, but I believe that that the last really usable IDE from Microsoft that allowed for true rapid application development for desktop apps was Visual Basic 6.

    Sure it didn't force you to do certain things, like declare variables, but that doesn't mean you can't declare them properly. Show me another language that lets you create a multi-dimensional array of database objects, or do true debugging of both the user screens and code from one place. Microsoft made a big mistake abandoning it - an no vb.net is not a replacement. If you think it is then you haven't used either.

    • by labnet ( 457441 ) on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @02:52PM (#58373756)

      Gosh, the hate here for VB6 was a force, but I too loved the language.
      I wrote a commercial scientific instrument interface in VB6 with database driven dynamic controls, real time graphing and instrument control.
      I had to do all the engineering, Schematic, PCB, mechanical, embedded firmware, and PC app. No way I could have developed that as one man developer 20 years ago without VB6. (Maybe Delphi, but I didn’t have that dev stack)

      • Gosh, the hate here for VB6 was a force, but I too loved the language.

        VB6 was fun, but it was non-deterministic. In certain situations, the output or behavior would not be repeatable. For many tasks, it was a suitable language/environment, but its lack of determinism made it an object of derision.

        It is possible to love flawed things. It is possible despise those flaws. It is possible to experience both at the same time.

    • by KingMotley ( 944240 ) on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @03:13PM (#58373898) Journal

      I've used both, and .Net (vb.net and C#) are very much a complete replacement and upgrade from VB6. For desktop applications, it is very similar. You have a form, you drop controls on it, you double click on the control and it hooks up the default event for that control, and drops you into where you can enter the code to run when that event fires.

      You also get control (if you want it) to how to spawn the forms at start up, and yes, you can still get multidimensional array of database objects in ADODB, or datasets if you really want.

    • This is absolutely hilarious and total utter BS.... Visual Basic 6 better than Visual Studio and .NET !!?

      And what could you do with VB6? windows apps? Console Apps? Answer: In summary almost nothing,

      OK yes in it's day it was pretty good. At that time, I actually much preferred Delphi, which funnily enough was created by Anders Hejlsberg, the same man that Microsoft recruited to bring us .NET.

      MS .NET is cross platform and you can use it for pretty much any kind of application you can think of.

      There's nothi

      • by jez9999 ( 618189 )

        Only .NET Core is officially cross platform, and doesn't have GUI development features outside Windows. Even Mono's Winforms implementation on Linux is basically permanently deprecated and unsupported, unfortunately.

        • .NET has been cross platform from release 1.0. Microsoft, HP and Intel formally submitted an open specification for the .NET CLI (which is the specification for implementing a .NET runtime for any platform) to ECMA back in 2001. To say there was no cross platform support before .NET core is misleading, the actual wording you've used "officially cross platform" as far as I'm concerned it was officially cross platform when the ECMA-335 standard was first ratified in 2003.

          In terms of actual cross platform sup

          • by jez9999 ( 618189 )

            I was really focussing on the GUI side of things. Many of us were really disappointed when it was revealed that the GUI functionality in the latest .NET Core was basically just a wrapper for existing Windows GUI functionality and not to be supported on Linux and Mac. It would be great if they could port XAML based interfaces for example to Linux and Mac and then their GUI support really would be cross platform like the rest of Core.

    • A multidimensional array of database objects? Any C dialect lets you do that. Granted, in C++ it gets a bit easier with the objects bringing along their own manipulation and cleanup code, but aside of that... hell, you can do it in Javascript, in Python...

      Come to think of it, is there a language you canNOT do it in?

  • by lazarus ( 2879 ) on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @04:02PM (#58374248) Journal

    Every time they come out with a new version I try it for mobile app development and every time I end up trashing it. This version:

    - Crashed immediately on first launch.
    - Once relaunched I created a new Android project in F#. Changed nothing except selected my device to run it on. Compile produced 12 errors.
    - Closed the project and created a brand new one with a different name but going through exactly the same steps. Compile produce 4 completely different errors.

    I have Android studio and Xcode installed and working just fine. There is no way that I'm investing my time in a tool that breaks out of the box.

  • by guruevi ( 827432 ) on Tuesday April 02, 2019 @04:10PM (#58374312)

    I've tried over the years to use Microsoft IDE because people keep raving about it but they've never used JetBrains' suite of products or even simply Eclipse. Especially if you're more than just .NET (most enterprises work in mixtures of .NET, Java, HTML and PHP). They've also worked on Mac and Windows and Linux for a really long time.

    Also, their support sucks whereas JetBrains has a direct-to-engineer support. If you're going to pay for something, at least look around.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      VS excels in a couple of areas.

      Refactoring tools and code browsing is second to none. It really helps to keep code organized and encourage basic stuff like decent variable naming. Refactoring understands the language you are using and will even fix up comments for you.

      It's got pretty decent change tracking and git integration too. For C#/.NET stuff they have a good package manager too.

      The main down-side is that it's support for non-standard configurations is a bit weak. Some IDEs work well with your custom

  • So, Can one use Mac to develop Windows Apps (and which ones? Wpf/C# or?) ...or Mac apps or what to do with it? What are the target architectures?

  • Is Microsoft still stuck in 2018?
  • It's a little large 17 gig. It's a little slow to start about 15 seconds coming off my SSD. Did not pick up settings from VS 2017. But it does run well. Compiles quickly and in general behaves well.

     

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