Microsoft Announces It's Ready to Contribute to OpenJDK (jaxenter.com) 62
"In a message to the OpenJDK community, Bruno Borges announced that Microsoft has now formally signed the Oracle Contributor Agreement and has been welcomed to the Java community," reports JAXenter:
He went on to reaffirm Microsoft's commitment to Java and that the team is looking forward to giving something back to the Java community. However, the team will not just barge in with a heavy hand, but will start with smaller bug fixes and the like so they can learn how to be "good citizens within OpenJDK."
Borges, himself a former Oracle developer, is Principal Product Manager for Java at Microsoft. He presents Martijn Verburg as the Java engineering team lead who will be working together along with other partners in the Java ecosystem. Verburg is also CEO of jClarity, a leading AdoptOpenJDK contributor acquired by Microsoft in August this year, so presumably he will stay true to form and continue to contribute to the Java world, only now with Microsoft at his back...
Microsoft's acquisition of jClarity was just the latest in their efforts to gain a foothold in the Java community. There are many Java developers and Java champions who now practice their trade under Microsoft's banner... At JAX London a few weeks ago, Program Chair Sebastian Meyen opened the conference by giving a speech in which he said "Microsoft is now a Java shop". He sees this as a great development, as "it's always good when industry giants stand behind Java."
Borges, himself a former Oracle developer, is Principal Product Manager for Java at Microsoft. He presents Martijn Verburg as the Java engineering team lead who will be working together along with other partners in the Java ecosystem. Verburg is also CEO of jClarity, a leading AdoptOpenJDK contributor acquired by Microsoft in August this year, so presumably he will stay true to form and continue to contribute to the Java world, only now with Microsoft at his back...
Microsoft's acquisition of jClarity was just the latest in their efforts to gain a foothold in the Java community. There are many Java developers and Java champions who now practice their trade under Microsoft's banner... At JAX London a few weeks ago, Program Chair Sebastian Meyen opened the conference by giving a speech in which he said "Microsoft is now a Java shop". He sees this as a great development, as "it's always good when industry giants stand behind Java."
Flashbacks to Visual J++ (Score:3)
Re:Flashbacks to Visual J++ (Score:5, Insightful)
I doubt Microsoft have that intention this time. They're more interested in making Azure work well in Java without rocking the boat.
Re: Flashbacks to Visual J++ (Score:2)
Better, in what sense?
For that matter define better.
Re: Flashbacks to Visual J++ (Score:2)
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fortunately, Sun's java implementation running on Windows was not able to integrate with native Windows code properly, even their own, making it completely useless, and therefore the best of all possible java implementations.
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No, it was easier to integrate with native code full stop. The p/invoke mechanism in C# is a port of the native code integration feature from J++. Sun's Java didn't have an equivalent feature at the time, and their answer was JNI. While more conceptually pure, JNI is far more of a pain to actually use. There's nothing that ties p/invoke to Windows - you could implement the same thing on another platform.
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That said, it is sometimes necessary to make native calls and JNI is/was a pain in the ass since you had to define the interface in Java, generate
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There's nothing that ties p/invoke to Windows - you could implement the same thing on another platform.
Not just "could" - it's actually implemented on all platforms that Mono and .NET Core support. It's kinda hard to implement the .NET standard library without the ability to call native code somehow...
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Any other complaints from the Microsoft BOB era? (Score:3)
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> Visual J++ was never a serious platform nor much of a focus for Microsoft
Nonsense, Microsoft intended Java to be the language to replace Basic as the main application development language for windows.
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I think that's the main reason it's still relevant.
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Re: Dead? (Score:2)
Define best.
Re:Dead? (Score:5, Interesting)
Lol, C# is about the best language that exists for enterprise development.
context, context, context.
C# is pretty great at that task, but not all enterprises are the same, and the math changes as time goes by. I recently worked a government contract converting a tonne of legacy Java and C# systems over to Python/Django. Once upon a time that would have been unthinkable, now its not just thinkable, its increasingly common, and it turns out Django and its ecosystem are *really good* at large govt style projects, and the projact managers where shocked at how quickly the team where knocking these out, with full unit test suites and all. (There where experiments with Node.js, needless to say it wasnt fit to purpose).
Eventually other options will yturn up and change things again. Remember VB6? Remember Delphi? Those things where once ubiquitous in the enterprise scene. Now, not so much. Things change, and declaring languages "best" has always been a foolish sport.
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Would be nice if someone would do write up of that project! I'm in similar project, moving MS Access apps to Django. Also very successful and unexpectedly fast: import the data in PostgreSQL, use Django's inspectdb function to create the data model, validate and correct the model as needed, create forms and reports and the users are happy with their new webbased and responsive application.
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I'll give you a protip: For internal apps, the Django Admin stuff is spectacular. You can customize the hell out of that thing.
We had a system that was used for coordinating controlled burns in forests for fuel reduction that had a good 70+ pages of forms, multiple department sign offs, physics simulation stuff (Its smart to try and predict how a fire will go before burning half the state down lol) and so on. All using the Django Admin, and you'd never know that was what it was.|
Coupled with Bootstrap admin
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C# does not run on "real computers" only on itty bitty boxen.
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when you say "real computer" are we talking only IBM S/360s here, or what?
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True, but nobody is writing C# apps for boxes specced like that without incurring serious wrath from Sysadmins
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"A Look At 5 of the Most Popular Programming Languages of 2019
Most Popular Programming Languages
Java - 16.028%
C - 15.154%
Python - 10.020%
C++ - 6.057%
C# - 3.842%
McDonald's is also #1 (Score:2, Insightful)
The number one restaurant in America McDonald's.
https://www.restaurantbusiness... [restaurant...online.com]
Lego blocks are popular because they are an easy way to build things. I wouldn't build enterprise tools with Lego.
Speaking of Lego, when the Lego company needed a programming language fot kids to program their Lego Mindstorms toy, they chose Python. Because Python is the perfect language for 8-12 year olds to use for their toys. :D
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Very suitable, Python is exactly what you need for toy projects.
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This is not a list of the "most popular" programming languages. It is a list of the Programming Languages most used by Idiots who do Web Searches and so forth.
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No sir, Java is not dead, and it is not a horrible language.
In fact C# is a close cousin to Java, and is a pretty good language as well.
This whole 'isnt language X dead yet' argument should be dead.
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No sir, Java is not dead, and it is not a horrible language.
I think Java has been declared dead at least once a year for the last 20 years. The reaction to this news will be yet one more instance of that.
It's only dead to the ill-informed (Score:2)
So working professionals who know what they're talking about...never really have a "simple" opinion of Java....more of a wi
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Can you give five examples of good, serious Java programs (not toy projects)?
I have not seen any for at least a decade.
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Did you see the joke where every programming language is a car? They made the C# one a red, glittered hummer with radar and turrets. That's about right.
Java has about the highest number of job opportunities (especially among the high-paying enterprise companies). If you want to work for money, I wouldn't look at it as dead.
Money says they try to DotNET it. (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless you've been sleeping under a rock, you know MS loves to add proprietary extensions on stuff. I fully expect they are going to start off by adding some DotNET bridging crap for the part that is open source ("it's cross-platform, see!"). Then they'll offer the full extension to the rest of the DotNET facilities which of course will only work on Windows.
This is classic Microsoft behavior.
Very dated reference - MS is focused on Azure now (Score:5, Interesting)
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All of the cloud providers want you to redesign your moneymaker software around their cloud services so you can't afford to move to a different provider.
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All of the cloud providers want you to redesign your moneymaker software around their cloud services so you can't afford to move to a different provider.
Unless you're trying to get a lot of people to migrate to your platform, then you'll make tools and APIs to make it easy. If it's in Microsoft's favor to make Azure more compatible with AWS they'll work on it, if it's in Amazon's favor to make AWS more compatible with Azure they'll work on it. I don't really expect any company to make it easier to migrate to the competition, unless it's some kind of standard they have to follow or lose more than they gain.
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Absolutely. That's why, for example, every cloud provider makes sure that the likes of PostgreSQL and ActiveMQ work nicely with their service, but none of them support the same graph database system natively. Part of the cloud business model is "standards where existing code already depends on them, lock-in where it doesn't".
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If I had the points, I'd mod you up. Freetards are still stuck in the past.
Microsoft is chasing the cloud dollars now, not the lock-in dollars. What's the best cloud to use? The one that works with everything - Microsoft knows this and has adapted.
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One stat in particular that people should be more aware of: the majority of Azure deployments run Linux. This has actually been true for a year now.
And Azure is the fastest growing revenue stream for Microsoft. So not adequately supporting Linux directly hurts the company bottom line. Which is why you see so much MS software being ported to Linux these days. It's even veering into office software at this point, with the recently announced Linux client for MS Teams.
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Sep 1995 [edge-op.org]: “One strategy is to jump on the Java bandwagon and try and take control of the class libraries and runtime. This may be the best alternative but this decision impacts across the company.
Re: Money says they try to DotNET it. (Score:1)
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Correction (Score:1)
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Good luck getting it past the other members that have a vested interest in keeping Java dominant. This shit might have worked in 2000, and they tried, and failed. No way this will work now that is entrenched in every business globally for over 20 years.
Microsoft contribute to Oracle OpenJDK (Score:1)
Can the sublicensees further sublicense the product without any legal linkage to either Microsoft or Oracle? As compared to the GPL “You must license the entire
multiple levels of sublicensees. GPLv2+CE (Score:2)
> Can the sublicensees further sublicense the product without any legal linkage to either Microsoft or Oracle?
The text you quoted says "multiple levels of sublicensees". Which means Oracle can grant other the right to further sublicense, under whatever terms they choose.
One set of terms they are currently offering is GPLv2+CE. Oracle OpenJDK and other distributions of OpenJDK are GPLv2+CE. Oracle has another JDK which is not open source. There is a lot of the same code in both - the same code available
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That depends on the license Oracle gives you, and as far as I'm aware, they currently donot have a license that grants the same unlimited rights to a sublicensee.
1998 called, it wanted it's rhetoric back (Score:2)
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Java is still free.
Long term support for every version however is not.
Not Oracle Java. Had to take it off a bunch of RHEL machines. If we want to run Oracle Java we have to buy a license.
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Anything you had already downloaded was fine. There is no requirement to uninstall already installed software. However it leaves you with not LTS if you are sticking with Oracle for your Java.
That said free LTS support of Java 8 and Java 11 can be had from Amazon in the form of Corretto, which seems to be part of a Bezos sticking it to Ellison campaign, which is just fine by me (tm).
https://aws.amazon.com/corrett... [amazon.com]
I am not saying Amazon is perfect, but hey if they are going to be kind enough to provide me
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I don't think you understand. We had this problem with RHEL 5. RedHat lost their license and the very last update to Java removes it. Have a not so nice day.
Now we test first. Sure enough, poof, gone earlier this year.
I'm finding that all kinds of vendors are removing it. SAS for example. In Server Automation they eliminated that some time ago.
I've had this advice for years - if you're running Java make a plan on eliminating it. Otherwise you're playing business roulette. There is exactly one guy I know tha
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...remember that IE is still free and Java isn't anymore
Nonsense. IE is still the same closed, proprietary mess it always was, and Java is still licensed under the GPL. Oracle no longer provides pre-compiled binaries for the newer versions, but 3rd parties now do that (and most Linux distributions continue providing it as if nothing has changed).
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In other news... (Score:2)
... MS is also ready to contribute to this newfangled steam engine technology invented by a guy called James Watt. They will also invest in the edison startup to help develop their lightbulb technology.