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Python Programming

Massive Python Survey Reveals Popularity of Linux and PyCharm, Just 10% Still Using Python 2 (zdnet.com) 53

Posted by EditorDavid from the programming-in-Python dept.
The Python Software Foundation and JetBrains collected over 24,000 responses for the third annual Python Developer's Survey. Among its findings: 59% said they used Python for data analysis, "followed by web development at 51%, and machine learning at 40%," reports ZDNet: Other major applications of Python include DevOps and system administration (39%), programming web tools like crawlers (37%), software testing (31%), education (26%), software prototyping (25%), network programming (21%), desktop development (18%), computer graphics (14%), embedded system development (8%), game development (7%) and mobile development (6%).

However, at 28%, web development remains the top purpose when respondents were asked what they used Python for the most. It is followed by data analysis (18%), machine learning (13%), and DevOps, and system administration (9%).

Good news given that the final version of Python 2 was just released, the survey found that 90% are using Python 3, up from 84% in 2018. Of those still on Python 2, 45% are using it for web development, and 41% are using it for DevOps and system administration. PSF speculates that web development's dominance in Python 2 is because of legacy code...

Some 68% of Python developers are building on Linux, followed by Windows at 48%, while macOS has a 29% share...

The PyCharm integrated development environment (IDE) from JetBrains is once again the top IDE with a 33% share, followed by Microsoft's open-source cross-platform editor VS Code with a 24% share.

Python adoption is often attributed to its moderate learning curve. The survey found that 44% of users have just two years' experience and 30% had three to five years' experience.
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Massive Python Survey Reveals Popularity of Linux and PyCharm, Just 10% Still Using Python 2 More

Massive Python Survey Reveals Popularity of Linux and PyCharm, Just 10% Still Using Python 2

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  • Pycharms, Shitbrains... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 10, 2020 @06:48AM (#60043470)

    The new generations just can't use a programming language without a nanny IDE to hold their hand and download libraries for them from the Internet.

    Small wonder even the most trivial script downloads an imperial assload of junk that does nobody knows what and has all the bugs in the Universe and then some.

    Degradation is the new norm.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nagora ( 177841 )

      Well, I wish I could mod you up.

    • Who am I pretending to be: "Dont worry about memory, theres plenty" and "dont worry about speed, it only runs once in a while".

    • Re:Pycharms, Shitbrains... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) on Sunday May 10, 2020 @08:28AM (#60043672) Journal

      I can code handily enough in vi, but I produce far fewer bugs when I've got something checking syntax, arguments, properly enclosed control structures and so forth.

    • I think you're being awfully harsh... Just because there 'is' an IDE doesn't mean people have to use it to code. They just prefer it to a plain text editor. Anyhow, it seems to be Java that requires the IDE most of all not Python.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Ksevio ( 865461 )

        Java is a nightmare to code without an IDE because you're constantly opening new files in a large file tree. My experience with Python has been that files contain more and they're typically packaged closer together in the file system. I've done both with and without an IDE, but now I typically use IntelliJ for Java and emacs for Python

        • It was one of those things that were so refreshing with Python when I started. I didn't need an IDE or a build tool, it just worked. There's not much boiler plate code (Java) and I don't need a meta-language to compile (C++ with whatever build tool) or a separate test tool/GUI to run tests.

          I'm a bit annoyed by Python 3 and the changes to relative imports since I must often set up an appropriate python path to run stuff since executable scripts can't contain relative imports. I know the old ways had flaws an

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      I just glanced through the PyCharm features list to remind me why I don't use it.

      Looks like it will maintain your requirements.txt for you. If it's burdensome to maintain the list of requirements for your program, it's going to be much more so for anyone else to install all that crap.

      • everyone at work who does python insists on having this app installed (pycharm).

        I don't get it. I'm an emacs guy and never got into IDEs like that, but guys seem to like it a lot.

        thing is: it crashes video all the time. intel onboard video (older i3 and i5, even i7) crash the x-server all the damned time with pycharm. nothing else does that. happens mostly on linux mint but also does happen on ubuntu. tried lots of intel video updates, kernel updates, userland. nothing stops pycharm from crashing.

        it a

      • I just glanced through the PyCharm features list to remind me why I don't use it.

        Looks like it will maintain your requirements.txt for you. If it's burdensome to maintain the list of requirements for your program, it's going to be much more so for anyone else to install all that crap.

        PyCharm can generate a requirements file if you want it. The default is, that it doesn't.

        If you want to pip install your libraries manually, do that. (I prefer this)

        The same goes for many of the integrated tools. For example if you prefer to use git from the command line (like me) then
        you can do that and PyCharm will notice and keep the git visualisation in sync, and tempt you with a nice visual interface to
        compare files..

        If you're happy with EMACS (no idea if it's as good as VIM, which I like for small Pyt

        • If you're happy with EMACS (no idea if it's as good as VIM, which I like for small Python scripts) then you don't need PyCharm.

          Emacs can emulate vi/vim, so, yes, it's as good as they are. :-)

          It's not an IDE like most are thinking, but does have some IDE features. Emacs is an order of magnitude better editor than most other editors, but has (or can have) a steep learning curve. I've been using it since the '80s, so am an intermediate to slightly advanced user. :-) [I have written some code in Emacs LISP for myself, which was trivial for me as I was also a LISP programmer.]

          • > Emacs is an order of magnitude better editor than most other editors,

            i keep hearing this, and i just don't buy it. if your editor has features like those that GP listed (autocompletion, refactoring, navigating between files, debugging and inspecting code and running tests) built in and you use them all day every day to do your job, then that makes it better than editors that don't (eg emacs or n?vim).

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by ttfkam ( 37064 )

      Not "kids these days" nor IDEs. This phenomenon has existed for as long as computing has been profitable. I performed the "basic for-loop" interview back in the late 90s when folks were getting hired if they could spell "HTML". Folks wanting/needing a job and trying to get in by hook or by crook is tale as old as a capitalist society. Why should programming be any different.

      https://blog.codinghorror.com/... [codinghorror.com]

    • Damn straight! When I was their age I walked five miles to school, barefoot, in the snow, both ways! And smoked cigarette butts from the gutter while I did.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Retired ICS ( 6159680 )

        That is supposed to be " ... in the snow, uphill both ways ..." Clearly you need an IDE to help you out.

        • Damn straight! When I was their age I walked five miles to school, barefoot, in the snow, both ways! And smoked cigarette butts from the gutter while I did.

          That is supposed to be " ... in the snow, uphill both ways ..." Clearly you need an IDE to help you out.

          An IDE would have also told him to put on shoes and stop smoking ...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      While I do not disagree, I find that it coding in Python is without IDE (I frankly hate them...) is not harder than coding in an older language like C. The most important thing, like always in any engineering, is to understand what you are doing and IDEs make that harder. The "modern" far-too-helpful IDEs make it almost impossible sometimes.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Xua ( 249955 )
      I don't think downloading dependencies is the most important feature of an IDE. I personally never use it for this, never use integrated GIT and prefer Emacs to edit Python code than PyCharm editor although PyCharm has some neat code navigation which (sometimes) allows jumping to a function definition. What I like the most in PyCharm is its Python debugger. It is much better than Emacs pdb frontend and even allows remote debugging in Docker container if you have a professional version. PyCharm debugger is s

    • The new generations just can't use a programming language without a nanny IDE to hold their hand and download libraries for them from the Internet.

      1. Lots of people that are using Python aren't computer engineers/programmers by trade and training. It's the tool people are turning to when Microsoft Excel falls on it's face.
      2. There's a big push for people to "learn to code" and Python IDEs and downloadable libraries lower the barrier to entry. Conversely, this is likely why the supply of COBOL programmers is small.

      I don't think it's a generational thing. I think if you grab a recent graduate in computer science, they will be able to code just fi

  • The only time I ever use Python... (Score:4, Funny)

    by h33t l4x0r ( 4107715 ) on Sunday May 10, 2020 @07:02AM (#60043502)
    Is when I have an utter noob client who thinks he knows Python and wants to be able to try to understand my code. And then proceeds to not do so.
    • LOL nubs, they do print statements in a 4 week bootcamp and call them selves devs.
    • So all other times you make your code confusing on purpose because you wouldn't want anyone inexperienced to be able to work with it? What kind of logic is that?
      • If you look at the numbers half of these people are trying to do heavy IO stuff with Python which doesn't work because it's not "really" asynchronous and the libs are not thread safe. I'm not trying to make my code confusing on purpose but 100% of Python noobs are unable to follow asynchronous code (I am completely fine writing it). But if they can't follow it anyway I might as well write it in a better-performing language. I don't particularly care if you disagree.
        • Yes that is a downside of Python. It's amazing so many people use it when it doesn't even work. They have broken websites and they don't even know it! Joke's on them!

    • You take pride in writing code that is hard to understand? I think the dev community needs to move away from those kinds of patterns.

      Beautiful code to me is code even my non coding customers can look at and understand roughly. Code is communication, not surreal art. I find that's a principle that helps myself whenever I revisit my old code base.

  • Some 68% of Python developers are building on Linux, followed by Windows at 48%, while macOS has a 29% share...

  • Linux will dominate the desktop when only developers use the desktop. Eventually typical humans will stop using desktops and interact with humans via AI speech and motion recognition (which is running Linux). Only programmers will have a computer desktop, which is running Linux.

    • You're close, but it's actually cellphones. Japan has been this way for decades and America is headed there fast. Desktops are just for work. No need for AI or anything fancy.
  • Massive Powershell Survey Reveals Popularity of Windows.

  • Not seeing any python 3 use in the data analysis or banking corporations I deal with, it's all an infrastructure of python 2, which of course will be supported for years in major distros.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by guruevi ( 827432 )

      A lot of projects are simply changing the interpreter from Python2 to Python3 without really testing all the edge cases or insisting that code is portable between the two languages. However libraries are changing from 2 to 3 and things are breaking if you still running code based on Python2 so you have instances where you're stuck on old and broken libraries OR you have a project that doesn't run in Python 2 but its edge cases require Python 2.

  • About 7-9 years ago, the relatively huge memory usage of full-fledged IDEs for Python programming (such as Pycharm and Eclipse) really turned me off, so I continued to stick with Emacs. As my Python programming became more sophisticated, I installed Emacs modules (such as flyspeck and Jedi) that implemented necessary elements of IDEs. However, during this current quarantine, I have been coding, editing, and oftentimes compiling files remotely through Emacs's TRAMP module. Given how starved and unreliable m

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