Python Creator Guido van Rossum Joins Microsoft (techcrunch.com) 77
Guido van Rossum, the creator of the Python programming language, today announced that he has unretired and joined Microsoft's Developer Division. From a report: Van Rossum, who was last employed by Dropbox, retired last October after six and a half years at the company. Clearly, that retirement wasn't meant to last. At Microsoft, van Rossum says, he'll work to "make using Python better for sure (and not just on Windows)." A Microsoft spokesperson told us that the company also doesn't have any additional details to share but confirmed that van Rossum has indeed joined Microsoft. "We're excited to have him as part of the Developer Division. Microsoft is committed to contributing to and growing with the Python community, and Guido's on-boarding is a reflection of that commitment," the spokesperson said.
Re:Come to the DARK SIDE! (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
In 1998, computer users knew how to use a computer, swap internal parts, knew things like IRQ and DMA, etc.
In 2020, about 99.99% of users who don't know anything about computers except they need one to access Facebook, Twitter and the other parasitic parts of the Internet.
So IMHO comparing Microsoft 1998 to Apple 2020 is not a fair comparison.
Excel (Score:5, Interesting)
Several months ago the Excel folk within Microsoft asked users whether they'd like to have Python as an alternative scripting language in Office. Support for that was overwhelming, but nothing more was said on the matter since then. I guess this is Microsoft's answer.
Re: (Score:3)
Python is a bad choice though (Score:2)
The beauty of such software is, that it's functional programming. So a simple elegant functional scripting language would have been a much better choice.
But, alas, as much as I personally actually like Python, ... we're deep in a large Python fad.
I wonder though, how long van Rossum knew this. And if that's why he left the leadership position for Python. So MS would not get full control over Python just so he could get his new job.
But to me, the whole thing is strange anyway... I'd rather eat fried rats and
Re: (Score:2)
Hello, Frank!
Re: (Score:3)
VBA is kind of a hot mess
Kind of? I've done one project that involved using VBA in Excel, I wouldn't wish that abomination on anyone. Sure you can get work done with it, much in the same way that you can hammer in a nail with a frying pan while blindfolded.
Re:Excel (Score:4)
Sounds insecure. Don't people mail spreadsheets around? There's a reason not many people use Grail as their browser.
Re:Excel (Score:4, Interesting)
You understand the whole point of Excel, yes?
It's basically a functional programming language with a UI that lets you view the memory cells directly, and adds some sugar on top of that memdump. :)
And VBA isn't exactly weaker than Python either.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, BASIC was intended as a simple educational language for children and students, over 55 freaking years ago.
It's as if somebody used LEGO for all the insides of a 1000 ft oil tanker.
Re: (Score:1)
"It's as if somebody used LEGO for all the insides of a 1000 ft oil tanker."
It's hard to do worse than the computer-car metaphor.
But you did.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Several months ago the Excel folk within Microsoft asked users whether they'd like to have Python as an alternative scripting language in Office. Support for that was overwhelming, but nothing more was said on the matter since then. I guess this is Microsoft's answer.
That would be awesome for me. Been wanting to learn python but didn't have anything to use it on, and use excel fairly regularly at work but couldnt get the hang of VBA.
Re:Excel (Score:5, Insightful)
Several months ago the Excel folk within Microsoft asked users whether they'd like to have Python as an alternative scripting language in Office. Support for that was overwhelming, but nothing more was said on the matter since then. I guess this is Microsoft's answer.
Ironically, I rarely create spreadsheets at all any more, because most of the time I can solve a problem in a more simple and maintainable way by writing a quick Python script to process the data. That way the data isn't all mixed together with invisible processing logic, and the data and logic are better suited for version control. The data can also stay in a more open and future-proof format like CSV or JSON.
Sometimes I still use a spreadsheet to load the final results so I can quickly view them in a graph, but that's about it.
Re: (Score:2)
You know all spreadsheet software can load an save CSV, yes?
And ... JSON may be open and future-proof, but it sure is shit. All that's missing is XSLT with a dash of ASN.1. ;)
And the point of spreadsheet software is overview! Whenever you try to get just as much overview with another programming language, you inevitably end up with a Excel clone / report generator, except with worse interactivity and a slower REPL loop.
Re: (Score:2)
You know all spreadsheet software can load an save CSV, yes?
Of course. That's how I load the results to view in a graph.
And the point of spreadsheet software is overview!
Except that by default you can't see the damned code. The only reason you need an "overview" is because you've got hundreds of hidden copies of the whole algorithm sprinkled around the page instead of a couple of text lines in a loop statement.
Re: (Score:2)
I have also on occasion been know to copy a column to the clipboard, then in cygwin cat /dev/clipboard | processing-chain > /dev/clipboard and paste the results back into Excel/Calc. For example finding typos in a column of names is easily accomplished via copy -> cat /dev/clipboard | sort | uniq | less.
Re: (Score:2)
Same here; I use AWK to process the data and upload them to Excel for the Graphical views;
Re: (Score:2)
were they given more than 2 choices? I mean herpes is better than syphilis since it doesn't kill or cause brain damage.
Re: (Score:2)
> were they given more than 2 choices? I mean herpes is better than syphilis since it doesn't kill or cause brain damage.
And much like herpes, 95% of programmers are already intimately familiar with it.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Oh so Microsoft not going to use Scratch?
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft has been investing heavily into Python tooling for the past few years already.
Re: (Score:2)
Several months ago the Excel folk within Microsoft asked users whether they'd like to have Python as an alternative scripting language in Office. Support for that was overwhelming, but nothing more was said on the matter since then. I guess this is Microsoft's answer.
One could dream... even better if that caused Excel's localised function names to die a horrible death.
No, I do not want Norwegian names of functions (like SUM) instead of English function names - meaning the latter don't work. In general, I'm opposed to torture... but I'm willing and desiring of an exception for those who came up with that idea, and caused it to be implemented. OK, joking, but only slightly.
Core Python Dot Net 5.0 (Score:5, Funny)
Or maybe Python Dot Net Core 5.0
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
One extension will be a python template generator. It will be configured using XML. The XML will be generated from an Excel file. Once the Python templates are configured to generate more Excel files, they will become self-replicating. Woe be unto us if the Python templates become configured for deep learning.
I, for one, welcome our scripted overlords.
Re:Core Python Dot Net 5.0 (Score:5, Funny)
Python 365?
Re: (Score:1)
> Uh that's Microsoft Active Python 12 Enterprise Edition
Thanks, I just went flaccid.
Re: (Score:2)
You jest, but Python is already quite well integrated with the .NET platform (incl. .NET Core).
https://pythonnet.github.io/ [github.io]
https://ironpython.net/ [ironpython.net]
Re:Shock! (Score:4, Funny)
Microsoft are definitely shoddy. Their shitty stain of a bug-filled outdated File Explorer should shame ALL of their employees into resigning, including the new one.
But Guido made a great language
Oh? What's it called? I thought he'd only done the craptastic maintenance nightmare that is Python with it's fascistic approach to formatting and everything else.
and is probably a fantastic programmer.
That seems unlikely.
Provide evidence for shoddiness ( relative to your talents ) or STFU.
I'm a better coder than Guido on the grounds that I didn't write Python. That's a straight-up win.
Re: (Score:1)
"fascistic approach to formatting"
So you prefer some toy language where everyone is free to chose their own syntax ?
And which wouldn't be a "craptastic maintenance nightmare" atall ?
Are you 12 ?
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft are definitely shoddy. Their shitty stain of a bug-filled outdated File Explorer should shame ALL of their employees into resigning, including the new one.
But Guido made a great language
Oh? What's it called? I thought he'd only done the craptastic maintenance nightmare that is Python with it's fascistic approach to formatting and everything else.
Yep. Perl doesn't enforce any formatting rules, and we know how much more readable and paintable that is.
Re: (Score:2)
Microsoft are definitely shoddy. Their shitty stain of a bug-filled outdated File Explorer should shame ALL of their employees into resigning, including the new one.
But Guido made a great language
Oh? What's it called? I thought he'd only done the craptastic maintenance nightmare that is Python with it's fascistic approach to formatting and everything else.
Yep. Perl doesn't enforce any formatting rules, and we know how much more readable and paintable that is.
Having just spent three days in Python Dependency Hell I'm not minded to think that Guido's childish formatting wank is in any way a compensation for not having clearly demarked context or for having to live with a core team of Micky Mouse language developers who don't know their arseholes from breakfast time and who treat the language as their personal plaything instead of actually thinking about the design properly.
Microsoft just needs to.. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
They could call it vcpkg or chocolatey.
https://github.com/microsoft/v... [github.com]
https://chocolatey.org/ [chocolatey.org]
Re: (Score:3)
Fun fact: Microsoft is actually working on WinGet: https://github.com/microsoft/w... [github.com]
It's definitely far from usable, though:
- https://github.com/microsoft/w... [github.com]
- https://github.com/microsoft/w... [github.com]
Obviously (Score:1)
That man is a snake to join Microsoft.
Re:Obviously (Score:4, Funny)
Wrong Python. He must be a comedian to join MS.
Re:Obviously it's... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Is that like a macaron jumping into a sewage tank to learn its secrets of flavor?
Re: (Score:1)
That is funny! Mod up!
Re: (Score:2)
I prefer downmods from people who didn't get it. It tickles my inner sense of pointless superiority.
Re: (Score:1)
Snake pun aside, I suspect he joined because MS promised lots of money and resources to experiment. If you enticed me with enough nerd toys, I'd probably join Satan also.
Re: (Score:2)
There are actually two snake pun in there. Hint: the other one is capitalized.
Python creator joins Microsoft... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
And maybe this news here is why.
Van Rossum: Leave me to it. I cannot be saved anymore... Run, my child! Run!
Re:Python creator joins Microsoft... (Score:5, Interesting)
He left it up to the core developers and wider committers to work out how they wanted to be governed. Most decisions regarding the language were already being made by the core devs (backed by the PEP process and issue tracker) without Guido needing to be explicitly involved (unless it was a change he was involved in by choice).
https://mail.python.org/piperm... [python.org]
All Guido did was remove himself from the position of final arbiter in cases where a decision needed to be made and either no consensus or clear majority was present, or Guido felt the majority choice was wrong (which occurred infrequently, but the general feeling in the community is that when he did exercise this power it eventually proved to be the right choice).
From this emerged a number of governance proposals, and the community eventually decided on a Steering Council model.
https://www.python.org/dev/pep... [python.org]
https://www.python.org/dev/pep... [python.org]
Guido is still active in the Python community - he's a frequent poster on the Python mailing lists. He's obviously had the break he needs to reinvigorate.
Re: (Score:2)
It's worth noting that Guido wouldn't be the first Python core developer to join Microsoft, either.
Close, but no cigar (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Larry has standards and isn't a control freak.
Re: (Score:1)
> Larry ... isn't a control freak.
Is that why there are 16 variants to every syntax?
Re: (Score:2)
Because you cannot have Windows with Walls?
M$ EMBRACES Python... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
How do you EXTEND open source projects?
Re: (Score:2)
Ask JScript, err, I mean JavaScript.
Re: M$ EMBRACES Python... (Score:3)
Same way M$ did with Java.
Re: (Score:2)
Come in to say exactly this.
EMBRACE, EXTEND, EXTINGUISH is the first phase that come to mind whenever I see M$ buys anything or joins any group.
I think he wanted an argument, but... (Score:3)
Mistook the room, and instead signed up for abuse.
Re: (Score:2)
I got that reference!
(For anyone else: Monty Python's Argument Clinic.)
P# (Score:2)
Crap (Score:2)
Another nice tool going down the drains of "embrace, extend, extinguish".
Python 4.0 Hello World (Score:1)
10 PRINT "GOOD CAT, MONTY"
20 GOTO 10
( And it still won't be as bad for Python as the 2 -> 3 transition. )
Good place for him (Score:1)
Guido never was a particularly good designer, his shortcomings will go completely unnoticed there. He will have the company of turncoat open saucers Miguel and Nat, the latter of whom recently achieved infamy by attempting to shut down youtube-dl.
Guido stepped down (Score:1)
It's ok freetards....Guido stepped down from being BDFL a while back so you can still keep using Python guilt free.
I sure hope this means major enhancements for Python on Windows. They should talk to the Python for .NET crowd next.
Very cool project, check it out https://github.com/pythonnet/pythonnet [github.com]
So... (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)