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Education Python

Texas Instruments' New Calculator Will Run Programs Written in Python (dallasnews.com) 126

Posted by EditorDavid from the machine-languages dept.
"Dallas-based Texas Instruments' latest generation of calculators is getting a modern-day update with the addition of programming language Python," reports the Dallas Morning News: The goal is to expand students' ability to explore science, technology, engineering and math through the device that's all-but-required in the nation's high schools and colleges...

Though most of the company's $14 billion in annual revenue comes from semiconductors, its graphing calculator remains its most recognized consumer product. This latest TI-84 model, priced between $120 to $160 depending on the retailer, was made to accommodate the increasing importance of programming in the modern world.
Judging by photos in their press release, an "alpha" key maps the calculator's keys to the letters of the alphabet (indicated with yellow letters above each key). One page on its web site also mentions "Menu selections" that "help students with discovery and syntax." (And the site confirms the calculator will "display expressions, symbols and fractions just as you write them.")

There's even a file manager that "gives quick access to Python programs you have saved on your calculator. From here, you can create, edit, run and manage your files." And one page also mentions something called TI Connect CE software application, which "connects your computer and graphing calculator so they can talk to each other. Use it to transfer data, update your operating system, download calculator software applications or take screenshots of your graphing calculator."

I'm sure Slashdot's readers have some fond memories of their first calculator. But these new models have a full-color screen and a rechargeable battery that can last up to a month on a single charge. And Texas Instruments seems to think they could even replace computers in the classroom. "By adding Python to the calculators many students are already familiar with and use in class, we are making programming more accessible and approachable for all students," their press release argues, "eliminating the need for teachers to reserve separate computer labs to teach these important skills.
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Texas Instruments' New Calculator Will Run Programs Written in Python More

Texas Instruments' New Calculator Will Run Programs Written in Python

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  • I don't look forward (Score:5, Funny)

    by bobstreo ( 1320787 ) on Saturday July 31, 2021 @01:40PM (#61642021)

    to have to learn Reverse Polish Python

  • They should put a bigger and higher resolution display than what is currently on it? And no, I am not saying make it a smartphone app, I am saying increase the display size slightly such that the bezel area on the sides of the display is reduced or eliminated. And yea it will make a difference for a lot of things.

    • Or just, you know, make it a smartphone app. Writing python on a calculator sounds the sort of pain designed to put people off a career in software.

      • I'm guessing a few reasons to put Python on a calculator instead of a student's phone are

        A. Comply with the College Board's ban on touch screens for the SAT
        B. Comply with school rules and regulations to keep a personal phone turned off and in the student's locker
        C. Standardize on one model throughout all classrooms rather than having to deal with iPhone and numerous models of Android phone

        • Your comments pre-suppose that school student don't have access to desktops, laptops, and chromebooks...

          I know there are a fair number of Slashdot readers who wail that "not everyone has a laptop, desktop or chromebook!" But honestly, is giving them a 'computer' with a dual-purpose keyboard that is LITERALLY a calculator keyboard, a screen the size of a couple postage stamps, and absolutely no networking to upload their programs to a teacher's system for grading/review the answer?

          Oh, and by the way, it cost

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by tepples ( 727027 )

            For calculators used on standardized tests, "a dual-purpose keyboard that is LITERALLY a calculator keyboard" is a requirement. The College Board bans QWERTY keyboards from the SAT.

            Many graphing calculators have wired networking through a USB port or (in older devices) a serial port through a 2.5 mm TRS jack. As for wireless networking, for calculators used on standardized tests, "absolutely no networking to upload their programs to" the device of another student taking the test is a plus.

      • You could write the programs on a computer and then transfer them to the calculator over USB (or Serial) like we did 25 years ago. Except back then we used assembly or basic. There's no reason why you would actually have to enter the program directly on the device you plan to run it on.

      • Re: Increase the display size (Score:5, Interesting)

        by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Saturday July 31, 2021 @02:23PM (#61642137)

        Or just, you know, make it a smartphone app. Writing python on a calculator sounds the sort of pain designed to put people off a career in software.

        Can anyone explain why these calculators are even a thing nowadays?

        That is, an explanation that doesn't involve 70-year-old high school science teachers who haven't updated their skillset in 30 years?

        • Re: Increase the display size (Score:5, Informative)

          by OldUserBackAgain ( 6505346 ) on Saturday July 31, 2021 @02:32PM (#61642161)

          Or just, you know, make it a smartphone app. Writing python on a calculator sounds the sort of pain designed to put people off a career in software.

          Can anyone explain why these calculators are even a thing nowadays?

          That is, an explanation that doesn't involve 70-year-old high school science teachers who haven't updated their skillset in 30 years?

          A calculator is a much more specific tool than a smartphone. While there are good apps for smartphones that give you all the functions of these calculators (and I am not thinking of "emulators" that mimic a specific calculator model, but rather real math apps like Geogebra, Desmos, etc) the input is awkward. My students have access to calculators, computers and smartphones in my math classes and without a doubt most stretch for the calculator for most calculations. For some, Geogebra is superior.

          So learning to use the array of tools available to them is not a bad thing.

          But yes, more and more are moving away from them and exclusively using computers. Still, I have had more than one student whose computer crashed during a test or wouldn't start, whereas a calculator like these are way more robust. If anything would happen, you press the reset button on the back with the tip of your pen and a few seconds later you are back in the game. They are also a magnitude or two cheaper than a computer.

          • Yeah I was definitely thinking about computers rather than smartphones... although there have been some decent graphing calculator apps for smartphones for quite some time.

            • Re: Increase the display size (Score:4, Informative)

              by OldUserBackAgain ( 6505346 ) on Saturday July 31, 2021 @03:06PM (#61642241)

              Yeah I was definitely thinking about computers rather than smartphones... although there have been some decent graphing calculator apps for smartphones for quite some time.

              Where I teach, computer with math software is equivalent to calculator, so at tests, if you are allowed to have one you can use the other. I have some students that absolutely prefer Geogebra when graphing (I do too!) especially when you can adhere points to curves and drag them around and if you attach a tangent to the curve it follows.

              But for some types of calculations most prefer a calculator since it is easier to enter calculations on and as I mentioned, they are a lot more reliable. I had one student coming in for a test during Covid, since she hadn't been to school for months and not connected to our trusted network, her computer automatically went into update mode upon connecting and spending over 30 minutes out of the 2 hour test to update the OS. Fortunately this was not a math exam, so she got a paper version of the test and I allowed her extra time to transfer the answers into the electronic test system so I had all the answers collected there. But I have experienced crashes during math tests and that stresses some out, so having the calculator next to you is a good safety net.

              Calculator apps on the phones are really competent. Geogebra on my smartphone have all the functions of the desktop or cloud version. But the input and limited screen size is an issue. Also, there are soooo many apps and many of them costs, so it can be tough to find one that you like. Also, smartphones are not allowed during test unless you use the lockdown function on Geogebra, but generally we don't use them. Our computers have a test mode that restricts their use (in theory, a few years ago some of our students found a hole in the system and wanted help from the teachers to replicate it. When they succeded they reported it and got a cash reward from the company supplying the software to the schools).

              • That is why everyone with a brain has automatic updates disabled.

                • The students don't get to do that since that would be a huge security risk in the long run, the policies are set by the system administrators and considering that a school can only hire that many of them they need to set strict policies so that the system is manageable. Our school is one of the lucky ones, it is large enough to actually have REAL IT staff on site every day of the week. Smaller schools don't have that luxury.

                  These systems were set in place long before Covid, in a time when the kids where at

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

            I use a Casio calculator because the physical keys are so much faster than a touchscreen.

            Might upgrade soon, the new ones have nice colour displays, direct entry of SI units etc. Paste over Bluetooth would be nice but can't have everything.

            What I want to know is why there are no desktop apps that are this good. I have a physical keyboard with numpad but the software is lacking.

            • I use a Casio calculator because the physical keys are so much faster than a touchscreen.
              Actually they aren't, there is no difference in hitting a virtual key on a virtual calculator on a touch screen versus hitting the actual key on the actual device. Most certainly not in "speed".

              It might "feel more comfortable", though.

              What I want to know is why there are no desktop apps that are this good.
              Apples calculator on the Mac is fine.

              Try the zoom button ;P

              • I use a Casio calculator because the physical keys are so much faster than a touchscreen.

                Actually they aren't, there is no difference in hitting a virtual key on a virtual calculator on a touch screen versus hitting the actual key on the actual device. Most certainly not in "speed".

                When you are used to the device you can enter numbers without looking at the device, which is good for looking at your calculations on paper and typing them in on the calculator. That speeds up the process.

                Compare it to typing on a keyboard, when I learned how to type without looking at the keys my WPM count went up significantly. Then next speed bump happened when I didn't have to look at the paper of the typewriter or screen either but could look at the thing I was transcribing.

                On a virtural keyboard that

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

                Touchscreens do nothing to help guide your fingers. Ever noticed that the keys on most keyboards don't have flat tops, at least until Apple invented ultra low travel island style ones? It's because the slight curvature and the ability to feel the edges of the keys helps centre your fingers on them, so your hands are constantly recalibrating their position.

                The fact that you actually have to push the key down to register a keypress also means that your fingers can rest on keys between strokes and find their p

                • Well,
                  I don't know much about the Apple Keyboards. Mine work just fine. However as my own laptop is in repairs, I have a rented one: Mac Book Pro, 13", 2017 (only two Thunderbolt/USB-C ports).
                  This keyboard indeed feels a bit odd. And the sound of it is weird, too.
                  As I waste my time with /. and gaming, until I have mine back, I have the impression keys sometimes do not register, or trigger 2x. (But I might just be out of shape, gaming wise).

              • I challenge you to touchtype on a virtual keyboard.

                It is absolutely faster to work with a device that provides tactile feedback. Far more accurate too. Far more forgiving. All that translates into overall speed.

                • Depend son your skills.
                  I typed on my iPad as fast as on a my keyboard.

                  Sorry: there is no difference for me. But perhaps I'm just bad in typing :P

                  (Of course I prefer a physical one, but claiming a physical one is "faster" makes no real sense to me)

                  • No it doesn't. You may be able to type faster on your iPad, that doesn't make it faster, it makes you bad at using a keyboard. You won't find a touch based interface win any speed competition for data entry. Tactile feedback both aids in feedback of what was entered as well as improves accuracy.

        • Can anyone explain why these calculators are even a thing nowadays?

          Things like this:

          https://apstudents.collegeboar... [collegeboard.org]

          • I might argue that falls under the "70-year-old high school science teachers who haven't updated their skillset in 30 years" - the sorts of people who run that program.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

          Can anyone explain why these calculators are even a thing nowadays?

          That is, an explanation that doesn't involve 70-year-old high school science teachers who haven't updated their skillset in 30 years?

          Can anyone explain why keyboards are even a thing nowdays? I mean, a touchscreen keyboard offers way more flexibility for customization and getting the right characters where you need it. Especially special characters that are not on a normal keyboard.

          These are all tools. A calculator is simple and you can oft

        • I can give you a few reasons why I still have a graphics calculator on my desk:
          a) Faster.
          Unless I'm multiplying two numbers it's faster for me to reach over, hit the on button and use the calculator than it is to open up the calc app (or another app) on the computer to do the same thing. The exception here is working with data sets obviously. You wouldn't type an excel sheet into a calculator.

          b) Simpler.
          Computer based or phone based calculators have two traits: they are either too simple to be useful, or co

        • a) Hardware buttons, so I don't have to give as much attention to hitting the buttons as I do the calculator screen and whatever I'm reading the data from
          b) Start up time. Even 1 second on my HP One if I haven't used it in a few days is a noticeable slow down over my old HP 42s.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by fazig ( 2909523 )
        According to the summary this is intended to be used by 'students'.

        I suppose schools have some specific requirements a 'calculator' must fulfill to be allowed during exams.
        Back in my school days it was only certain models that were approved like the TI-83 or the Casio fx (I don't remember, but a similar model). I remember that the Casio came with a 4 color LCD display, but I preferred the TI-83, because it would solve equation systems and plot graphs notably faster.
        When I went to university it either wa

    • Obigatory XKCD (Score:5, Funny)

      by 93 Escort Wagon ( 326346 ) on Saturday July 31, 2021 @02:19PM (#61642121)

      https://xkcd.com/768/ [xkcd.com].

      I'm not always an XKCD fan, but this old one was spot-on.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by shanen ( 462549 )

        Reminded me of my first programmable calculator. Can't remember the maker, but I think it had a program capacity of 49 steps and I was able to fit a prime factorization program into 47 or 48. (I vaguely think it may have been a TI under an OEM label for Radio Shack?)

        Salad days.

    • And no, I am not saying make it a smartphone app, I am saying increase the display size slightly such that the bezel area on the sides of the display is reduced or eliminated.

      Eliminated, no. Given how often my students drop these calculators when carrying their stuff around or trying to open the locker with one hand while balancing everything in the other arm, the big plastic bezel are saving a lot of screens from cracking.

    • https://education.ti.com/en/pr... [ti.com]

      The display is 320x240 pixels. That's more than the old CGA/EGA/VGA MS-DOS games which were only 320x200 pixels! Kids these days!!1

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Saffaya ( 702234 )

        Uhm.. No.

        EGA was doing up to 640x350
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        VGA was 640x480
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

        • Uhm... yes. I said games, not hardware capabilities. It doesn't matter that EGA could reach 640x350 and that VGA could reach 640x480, most games in the MS-DOS days ran at 320x200.

          And if I recall, early VGA adapters only had 16 colours in 640x480 but 256 colours in 320x200, which is another reason why 640x480 was not used. The fact that EGA had a different ratio didn't help things either.

          Not to mention that running a game in 640x480 more than quadruples the number of pixels you have to draw in an era where y

          • The bigger problem with 640x350 and 640x480 modes was that they had more pixels than could fit into a single x86 memory segment (64 Kb). So you had to use bitplanes and other such hacks, which was both hard and slow. OTOH in 320x200x256 you just worked with a linear framebuffer, one byte per pixel - very neat and easy.

            However, there were still quite a few games that used higher-res modes, including popular ones like SimCity, Syndicate, Monkey Island (2), MSFS etc. Generally speaking, 2D games where renderin

            • Monkey Island 2 was a regular 320x200 game, not sure where you got that it ran in a higher-resolution mode.
              Unless you're talking of the recent remake which is a completely different thing that is kind of off-topic.

    • ...and its utterly incomprehensible line-wrap limit of 79 characters.
      Truly one of the most brain-dead language decisions of recent decades. It may have made sense in 1981, not 2021, 2011 or even 2001.
      And the excuses given for this are as lame as the length limit itself https://stackoverflow.com/ques... [stackoverflow.com]

  • How many schools will even allow these in their curriculum let alone tests?

    • Re:Forbidden fruit. (No, not at all) (Score:4, Informative)

      by OldUserBackAgain ( 6505346 ) on Saturday July 31, 2021 @02:01PM (#61642083)

      Depends on where you live I guess. I am a secondary school teacher and one of my subjects is mathematics. This is actually the lowest level calculator all my students have. About one fifth of the class have the TI-Nspire CX CAS. Those that do not have this are allowed to use GeoGebra instead to get access to CAS functions.

      When we teachers put together tests we often have one part that the students solve without any calculators, followed by a part with calculators. This is to comply with the national curriculum which have parts that say that the students must be able to show problem solving with and without calculators and other digital tools (which may include programming).

      But this is for my country. I suggest that you look up your national curriculum. A lot have changed since we (Gen-X) went to school. Switching careers to teaching a couple of years ago involved unlearning a lot of the "truths" from ages ago.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Hizonner ( 38491 )

        Why are you assigning problems convoluted enough that anybody needs a machine to do the algebra? What does that teach? What insight does it impart? I'm not asking whether the curriculum requires it... I'm asking whether the curriculum is right to do so.

        • Re:Forbidden fruit. (No, not at all) (Score:4, Interesting)

          by OldUserBackAgain ( 6505346 ) on Saturday July 31, 2021 @02:39PM (#61642175)

          Why are you assigning problems convoluted enough that anybody needs a machine to do the algebra? What does that teach?

          It teaches the students that not all problems have "clean" algebraic solutions and more importantly, it teaches them that they will have to learn how to identify which problem they can get an exact answer for and what problems they will have to do with other kinds of solutions (using numerical methods for example). Knowing your own limitations and what machines can do for you is learning for life.

          When you come across a problem in real life, there isn't a solutions guide in the back of the book or hints in the problem. So giving these kinds of problems to the students prepare them for the more varied problems in real life.

          But sure, your question is warranted and I am sure that these parts of the curriculum was debated by many (teachers, researchers, etc) before it was passed.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by Hizonner ( 38491 )

            Thank you for your answer. It was a sincere question and it's good to get an actual reply.

            I agree that it is important to know that there are not only real problems where the algebra gets hairy, but real problems that you can't solve in closed form at all. Heck, that's why they invented computers. I will admit that I'm not entirely sure how hard it is to impart that knowledge. I went to school before calculators, and I think I figured out pretty fast how complicated stuff could get. :-)

            I hope you're also gi

            • Re:Forbidden fruit. (No, not at all) (Score:4, Interesting)

              by OldUserBackAgain ( 6505346 ) on Saturday July 31, 2021 @03:21PM (#61642275)

              You are welcome.

              It is hard to impart that kind of knowledge. When constructing tests we are supposed to measure their skills in different areas, and when it comes to problem solving, the last part is to evaluate the answer and see if it is a reasonable answer. But creating good tests is hard and sometimes you realize that you haven't succeeded when you see what the students hands in. Given the number of dimensions you are supposed to test on it is hard to cram everything you want into one test.

              But I know that different countries have different philosophies. I have a colleague who attended an international conference for teachers and got into a (heated) discussion with a teacher from the US that claimed that tests with multiple choice questions are superior for determining the level of understanding a student exhibits (and apparently only used multiple choice for his/her tests).

              I hope this teacher was an outlier and NOT representative of the US school system. Nothing wrong with multiple choice questions, they are the easiest to grade, by far. I can even let a machine instantly do the grading for me! (Yay, I saved a few late nights there.) For evaluating subtle nuyances in knowledge? Please... I would like to see some educational research study to back up that claim. Until then I call BS on it.

              During my studies in mathematics didactics we were given real world answers from students and supposed to look at them to try to learn what the students had grasped an not, and discuss it in class. It was really interesting and useful. By reading between the lines and trying to get into the mindset of the student you could learn a lot about the difficulties they face and how we as teachers can help them.

              • Sounds like a future career in designing educational material (harder than people think). Especially all the different ways people learn. [youtu.be]

                • Oh yes! One of the best materials I use now is a mathematics system that allows me to create/conduct/share/grade tests and where the students can get feedback and use to improve where they are not as strong as they want to be. Unsurprisingly it is being made by former teachers. We pay quite a lot for this online tool but it is worth every penny in my opinion.

                  But there are a lot of endeavours in this area, some better than others. And as a teacher every day is challenging since we have a class of 15 to 32 st

      • Very interesting post- thank you!

        Question: Any of the students using HP calculators these days? I bought a used HP Prime from ebay last year when my son was slogging his way through Algebra II with the thought that he would use it.. I ended up using it much more than he did, especially after the class was over. I like that machine, and have enjoyed working through problems on it without a computer- it was just fun to work in a different way than I usually do on a computer (though it was also less efficien

        • Thank you for appreciating my post and telling me, not often you get that kind of feedback online! :-)

          As for your question: Sadly no. When I studied at the university there was a few hardcore HP fantasts, but not many. And at secondary school, none, neither then nor now.

          But I have talked to my students in math class and told them that the infix notation we use in ordinary math is by no mean the only way to do it. I showed them both post and prefix notation out of curiosity.

          In programming class (this is the

          • Easy to see from your reply that your students are fortunate to have a thinking and hard working teacher who is observant of their responses to the material presented. Keep up the great work! I was a teacher for a couple of years (5th grade) in a public school in California, and can say it was the hardest job I ever had- so all respect and kudos to you for clearly doing right by your students.

      • I should add that the national tests in mathematics for my students from last fall included a few questions that were really hard to solve algebraically and one where the students couldn't solve it algebraically at their level (it involved derivation of a product of functions and the students don't learn that until the semester after), so they were supposed to solve it using a graphing calculator or Geogebra/Desmos.

        All students are provided with a laptop by the school and although calculators are something

  • ... incorporate quantum computing on a pocket calculator running off a Z80 core. If anyone can do that, it's TI!

  • I remember, after my A-Levels were done, clearing the memory of my TI calculator (can't remember model, but this was mid 90s), and managing to write a mandelbrot generator for it. Modern people are spoilt.

    • And I was the HP across from you doing RPN. Spoiled indeed.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by nagora ( 177841 )

      I remember, after my A-Levels were done, clearing the memory of my TI calculator (can't remember model, but this was mid 90s), and managing to write a mandelbrot generator for it. Modern people are spoilt.

      They're hardly spoilt if they have to program in Python.

  • I've always liked TI calculators in theory but I have to say they just don't worry about what I think is important; being able to reliably read the display and enter keystrokes. This is unfortunate, because their modern calculators aren't terrible in terms of functions - my kids have been using the TI-36X Pro that were required for them to buy for school math which have decent functionality but with screens that have to be held at an unnatural angle to read and with keys that are simply mushy.

    This is why

  • TI calculators are toy-trash that only exist due to lobbying - they are nothing really special. You have them for the same reason that you have high-fructose corn syrup and bioethanol - political lobbying. This calculator has zero reason to exist because any app is better and cheaper. This is about getting schools to force kids to have to buy something they don't need.

    • I use Casio calcs also.
      Besides the graphing one I have, though I use computer graphing programs now, I also have some separate when I need to finagle a few numbers away from the computer.
      Of course I can use my sliderule also.
      And no I am not an old fogie.
      The slide rule is what my father used in the 60's and 70's.

  • And what happens when a Python gets revved again? This is a manifestation of the It Goes to 11 [youtu.be] principle. What's next, an email client?

    • The whole crapfest that was Python2 vs Python3 was if you relied on a bunch of different libraries and some of those libraries were 3 and some were still 2.
      I doubt the standard use case supports downloading external libraries - I mean there's no wifi or bluetooth, so that wont be a problem here.

      Don't expect this to be a full fledged programming machine, just a nice introduction to "math focused programming" machine.
      (all that aside, unless they were insane it would be Python3)

      • You are correct, they use Python with some proprietary libraries to access the rest of the calculator and restrictions on use (limit on list lengths for example), so it is like a subset of regular Python. Previously they used something more like to Basic, so they are trying to keep up with the times I guess.

        For those interested, the reference guide [ti.com] is available as PDF.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      Probably a variant of PicroPython, hence Python 3. Sort of.

  • I taught myself z80 assembly with a Ti-83. These were/are fun little kit.
  • I have a now vintage PC-E500, have had a PC-1500. Someday, I want a PC-1600, but they are quite rare.
  • Can't you just get an app for that?
  • Nope but someone will want to mine crypto with them. This is actually something I would buy and use personally. Looks like an excellent tool.

    • Nope but someone will want to mine crypto with them.

      Lol, let them try. If you see a graph plotting you understand that their strength is not in their speed. But as a proof of concept, why not. I just wonder how you are going to communicate with the rest of the crypto network. Need some serious hardware hacking skillz to pull that off :-)

      This is actually something I would buy and use personally. Looks like an excellent tool.

      Yes, I think it is. I got a TI-85 decades ago, and used it extensively in my engineering studies. When starting as a teacher a few years ago I started using it again, and it is still the amazing calculator it was back then. B

  • It is beyond me how a school/high school can demand a certain kind/brand of a calculator, and that this is is even legal.

    • It is beyond me how a school/high school can demand a certain kind/brand of a calculator, and that this is is even legal.

      They don't, so your comment is both incorrect and irrelevant. They might say "graphing calculators allowed", but they don't say "only this specific brand/model".

    • It is not brand specific in most cases. The TI series is just really good and becomes the standard, as it meets all the requirements.

  • Only reason I use a HP 35s: Good, tactile keys. Seems basically no other calculator has good keys these days.

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