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Programming Cloud

Which Developers Were Paid the Most in 2021? (infoworld.com) 118

Posted by EditorDavid from the cash-for-coders dept.
InfoWorld reports reveals this year's highest-paying software developer roles according to Robert Half's 2022 Salary Guide (which uses research conducted this summer on America's average salary range for the 50th and 75th percentile of applicants): The highest paying non-C-suite role in 2021 is the cloud architect. Organizations are looking for talented engineers to guide their digital transformation efforts.

Cloud/network architect: $153,750-$180,500
Applications architect: $150,500-$180,250

Software developer job titles have proliferated in recent years, and there is a clear need for mobile and applications developers, who get paid on average far better than their colleagues still working on mainframes.

Software and applications manager: $142,500-$166,250
Mobile applications developer: $137,250-$163,750
Senior software engineer: $135,250-$162,250
Software engineer: $124,500-$147,250
Software developer: $122,250-$142,750
Developer/programmer analyst: $112,500-$133,750

Developers responsible solely for web applications get paid on a slightly different scale than standard software developer job titles.

Senior web developer: $128,750-$151,000
Web developer: $111,000-$131,500
Front-end developer: $93,250-$107,750
The salary guide's web page also offers a search form that lets you adjust salaries to a selected cities (also showing what the lower salaries would be in the 25th percentile for applications new to the role and still acquiring relevant skills).

The page calls tech-sector recruiting "especially active," with employers hiring tech professionals "at or beyond pre-pandemic levels." In fact, 52% of tech employers said they were adding new positions, with 49% offering signing bonuses to new employees, and hiring is especially strong in areas like cloud services, AI/machine learning, and data analysis.

One perk being offered more frequently by tech-oriented businesses: unlimited time off.
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Which Developers Were Paid the Most in 2021? More

Which Developers Were Paid the Most in 2021?

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  • Jeez (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Joce640k ( 829181 ) on Sunday December 05, 2021 @11:45AM (#62049361) Homepage

    Where do you have to live to earn that kind of money?

    • Where do you have to live to earn that kind of money?

      Probably a big city with a major tech presence. One of the coasts.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by ShanghaiBill ( 739463 )

        Probably a big city with a major tech presence. One of the coasts.

        Yup. I live in San Jose. These salaries look low to me. It's hard to afford a place to live on less than $200k.

        • Re:Jeez (Score:5, Insightful)

          by dfghjk ( 711126 ) on Sunday December 05, 2021 @01:54PM (#62049669)

          LOL over 16K a month and can't find a place to live. Sure.

          Average rent for 2 bedrooms in San Jose: ~2600/mo. https://www.bestplaces.net/cos... [bestplaces.net]

          Don't know whether the dishonesty or the entitlement is worse.

          • After taxes, it is more likely to be around 10K a month. Three/four bedroom home within 1 hour commute distance, two cars, not really possible under 10K. May be a 2 bedroom home for a couple without kids, may be...

          • He doesn't even live in North America...

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by Junta ( 36770 )

            Meanwhile, I purchased a 3,000 square foot home for under $200k, and while I don't quite make $192k, I am not too far off and some years I exceed that. So I don't see $2600/month for a relatively tiny apartment with no path to ownership as a reasonable cost of housing.

          • LOL over 16K a month and can't find a place to live. Sure.

            Average rent for 2 bedrooms in San Jose: ~2600/mo.

            You refuted your own statement with the word "rent". Renting is a self-perpetuating trap to make other people rich while you build zero equity. Especially in a shitty apartment building where you aren't allowed to fix or upgrade anything and have to put up with neighbors' noise and stench. That $2600/mo place in San Jose is likely on the opposite side from where one has to commute, which with the chronic traffic in the silly valley means a couple of hours every day. And probably doesn't even have its ow

    • Any city in California, I imagine.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Tablizer ( 95088 )

        In CA those are your yearly rent figures, not salary. Unless you share an apartment with people who smell of odd foods you are not familiar with. (I'm just the messenger, nothing against food diversity, only saying it's an acquired taste.)

        • Re: (Score:1, Flamebait)

          by dfghjk ( 711126 )

          "I'm just the messenger..." of your racist views.

          "...nothing against food diversity, only saying it's an acquired taste..."

          No, you're not saying that at all. You're commenting on the people you would need to "share an apartment with".

          At those salaries, no one is force to share an apartment with smelly immigrants, that's just your racism talking.

          • Re: (Score:1, Informative)

            by DNS-and-BIND ( 461968 )
            Oh look, a Californian sneering at other people and calling them racist. How unusual.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by Tablizer ( 95088 )

            Maybe I worded it poorly. If you are from Country A, and end up living with somebody from Country B, you will probably find the food smells "odd". How is that "racism"? I have a relative who is an immigrant. The smell of hamburgers made them puke when they first came. They were just not used to hamburgers.

        • Back decades ago, there was a rule of thumb that you should pay no more than 25% of your gross income in housing.

          Now, most people are paying closer to 50% of net income.

          Here in CA, I live in a brand new fancy (small) apartment in the city, right next to public transportation, and I pay less than 25% of my income on rent.

          Certainly I'm at risk of rising costs, but over the years I'm actually spending less and less as a percentage of income.

          People who live in poor areas don't seem to understand the marginal va

    • Not just where. What are the non-cash benefits? Are equity grants part of it? Vacation? Health coverage? Retirement?

    • I'm getting the upper end of that in Dallas, Texas.
      Housing prices are half or less than many parts of California.

      I do manage my career intentionally, so my experience isn't necessarily average.

    • Re:Jeez (Score:4, Interesting)

      by godrik ( 1287354 ) on Sunday December 05, 2021 @02:45PM (#62049791)

      I have students who just graduated and they make just under of these average window as junior. And they go to various cities in the US (NYC, Buffalo, Philly, SF, LA, Portland, Charlotte, Orlando, Cincinatti, Chicago). But the salaries are higher in bigger cities for sure.

      From what I have seen, most junior developers with a BS and a decent amount of skills will make $80k about anywhere. Most MS junior developer make around $100k at hire. And it goes up from there.

      Now, I also see a bunch of student who got a degree between two beers and graduate with minimal skills. And they are having a hard time, probably never getting more than $60k.

    • In Silicon Valley if you make that money, you're underpaid. Also you should be getting paid in equity on top of that base salary.

    • The low end of the range (e.g. web devs) looks fairly accurate, the high end of the range is way low, like 60% of the actual range low. Not really unexpected since this is published by a headhunting agency with a vested interest in gaslighting people into accepting lower wages.
    • SF Bay area pay is in those ranges. Know how to write DSP firmware? RF / microwave system design? Low noise cryogenic electronics? Flight qualified firmware or software? We have open reqs that pay in those ranges and sometimes more - and we are a National Laboratory - usually not considered pay competitive.

      But (like everyone) we are looking for people who actually have the skills they claim - a depressingly rare thing among applicants.

    • I dunno. I make $120K. My wife makes $150K. Neither of us are IT people. We live in Pittsburgh.

      I would think developers would make more than either of us.

    • you don't have to live in a particular place anymore with those kinds of jobs. If you aren't finding work as a software developer, working for anywhere within the Continental United States, you are doing it wrong. There are countless number of software opportunities now and most of them are remote. Sure, you might make a little less in some situations but you will still make out in the end - living somewhere where cost of living is 4x less than any cost on the coasts.

    • Gov. contractors w/ a clearance can easily make six figures as mid-tier devs. Entry level is just under $100k while senior devs can make ~$150k. This is what I've personally seen at a big military base that is heavy into cyber warfare. YMMV depending on clearance level and skills. Only about 3% of the US has a clearance, or is even eligible to get one, so it's kind of an incestuous world due to more work than workers available.

      Of course, the skill set for a lot of gov. contracts is a lot more specialized th

  • Salary is subjective to the region of workers... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ELCouz ( 1338259 ) on Sunday December 05, 2021 @11:47AM (#62049365)
    Sure it's looks like a pretty good salary in Alabama but in California it's almost close to the poverty line when factoring cost of living ex: San Francisco.

    • To be fair, I think most techies in SF are making a lot more.

      My buddy found it easy to make $165k as a JS developer in SF, with Flash development being his only relevant skill.

    • Not really. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by waspleg ( 316038 ) on Sunday December 05, 2021 @12:02PM (#62049399) Journal

      The housing market is pure shit where I'm at in the midwest thanks to coastal WFH locusts descending on my city and gentrifying the ever living fuck out of everything with their massively inflated salaries (you know, the ones that assume they are still living on the coasts).

      • The sad part is that it didn't push the price down in the coastal areas much at all.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Talian ( 746379 )
        Don't you mean injecting tons of much needed capital into the local economy?

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Tablizer ( 95088 )

          Small towns would often rather keep things as they are rather than allow in new people with "satanic ideas" like science, climate change, and evolution even if they have money. Small towns are self-selected for people who like rustic ways.

    • I'm pretty sure >120k isn't poverty level even in SF, and since these numbers are averages, they'd be higher in high COL areas like that anyway.

      What's mostly surprising is that apparently making mobile shovelware is the most lucrative field.That is, if these numbers can be really trusted, which is a big question in these sorts of surveys.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by dfghjk ( 711126 )

      Such bullshit. Yes, great in Alabama, no not "close to the poverty line" in California.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ELCouz ( 1338259 )

        It now takes an average annual income of $235,000 to buy a house in the Bay Area.

        https://www.ktvu.com/news/how-... [ktvu.com]

        This isn't some rich people house we are talking old "apartment sized" house. It's even worse for SF house you need 320K family income to be able to afford it. Apartments are not cheap either. Let's say that a front-end developer is gonna have a hard to time to live in SF at this salary posted above.

    • If you make this kind of money in Alabama then you can retire in 5 years easy.

  • cloud architect looks like the new DBA (Score:5, Interesting)

    by reanjr ( 588767 ) on Sunday December 05, 2021 @11:57AM (#62049389) Homepage

    Back in the early '00s, DBAs were making mad money. It was a job most tech people could probably handle, but it was a mind numbing job so not enough people got into it. Cloud architect appears to be the new version of that.

    • Cloud architect is worse... or better. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      "Cloud architect" is probably worse, since "cloud" takes away essence needed for proper company functioning and hides it behind a "cloud" of ISP, network transit, hosting, "cloud", and who knows what other contracts... and boatloats of brittle infrastructure dependent on even more infrastructure increasingly prone to brownouts.

      But the results sure look good on paper! No capex! Everything opex! Look at us being lean!

      Come to think of it, I really do want a cloud architect job now. Helping stupid companies c

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by waspleg ( 316038 )

        The "cloud" as with all outsourced MSP type entities exists solely for some middle manager fuckwit to have something else to finger point at and blame when everything goes tits up.

        It's about negating culpability for bad decisions and being able to say "oh we put in a ticket we're just waiting for them to fix their shit"

        It's as nuanced and responsible as any child's game of tag, NOT IT!!

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by sinij ( 911942 )
          While I fully agree with what you say, you also have to consider that cloud SaaS would be vast improvement for any non-IT firm trying to host their own IT infrastructure.

    • Worth mentioning that while a good DBA is valuable, a DBA with too much time on their hands can make an over-architected monstrosity.

      The same is true of cloud architects.

  • Unlimited Time Off (Score:5, Insightful)

    by crow ( 16139 ) on Sunday December 05, 2021 @12:10PM (#62049427) Homepage Journal

    Unlimited time off is not a perk.

    Very few people will actually use more time off than they would have gotten at a company that tracks vacation time. And it means if you leave, there's no vacation time to cash out (many states require that it be paid out as an accrued benefit). At my company, we have use-it-or-lose-it vacation time, so we have tons of people taking a couple extra weeks off in December because they just didn't find a good time to take what they've accrued.

    • because they just didn't find a good time to take what they've accrued.

      The only thing more American than crap annual leave allotments is not knowing what to do with leave when you actually do get it.

      • I'm in the USA and I get 5 weeks paid time off in addition to paid holidays every year. I get to bank up to 10 weeks. This year however I will have used more PTO than I will have accrued. Not all companies in the USA offer the same benefits or have the same working conditions. If you are in demand you have the power to negotiate what is right for you or to pick a company that is in line with your priorities rather than being stuck with a one size fits all. Though if you are not in demand, well, that is admi

        • Negotiate? Well I'm glad you negotiated for something less than standard offering where I live. Lucky for you that you were in demand though. I guess if you weren't in demand we should just say fuck it, work until you drop.

          Workers rights in America are pathetic.

          • When I lived in the USA I only got two weeks paid leave, but I was also allowed to get significant unpaid leave to go home to Australia for a visit. Pay was good, so all fine. However, I understand that many non-tech companies consider that to be a travesty, with any extended leave an exclusive perk for senior managers.

    • Re:Unlimited Time Off (Score:4, Informative)

      by DrSpock11 ( 993950 ) on Sunday December 05, 2021 @01:48PM (#62049653)

      Unlimited time off is not a perk.

      I'd go further and say it's often a detriment. Without a pre-determined amount of vacation days that people are ok to take, there is inevitably peer pressure and management pressure to be a "team player" and take as few days as possible, lest you been seen as the slacker on the team.

      Studies have actually shown this to be the case.

      Source: https://workforce.com/news/unl... [workforce.com]

      • There are companies like that I'm sure. The one where I worked wasn't. People didn't abuse it, if anything it increased net productivity because people felt valued and didn't necessarily turn into pumpkins at 5pm. In most places salaried employees aren't punching timeclocks to micromanagement, so why do we treat time off differently from time on? Even at companies that technically do PTO accrual, it's not uncommon for managers to have an unofficial unlimited policy, so long as one doesn't abuse it and ge

    • Re:Unlimited Time Off (Score:4, Insightful)

      by mobby_6kl ( 668092 ) on Sunday December 05, 2021 @01:59PM (#62049697)

      Yep. We have like 25 days and no one will question you taking that time off. In fact, it's mandatory to take some of it off every year.

      If it's "unlimited", suddenly you have to worry if you're not taking more time off than the average employee, which would look bad to your manager and peers. Or, not use it at all and fuck up your mental (and physical) health.

  • web GUI (Score:3, Interesting)

    by fluffernutter ( 1411889 ) on Sunday December 05, 2021 @12:12PM (#62049435)
    Honest question, isn't being a cloud architect just knowing how to click around in a web GUI?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by kiviQr ( 3443687 )
      You need to be able to forecast weather. If you fail to predict hurricane you will be blown away somewhere else.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by xalqor ( 6762950 )

      Look for some cloud architect jobs online and read the job descriptions. They're not going to be entirely accurate as to what you would do every day, but it will get you much closer than "click around in a GUI".

      Some might rely on the services of cloud providers, and some might be working for a cloud provider, so you can imagine the scope of their knowledge and skills could vary widely.

      There are probably some cloud architects out there who don't even touch those GUIs -- they make diagrams in PowerPoint and a

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        There are probably some cloud architects out there who don't even touch those GUIs -- they make diagrams in PowerPoint and attend meetings.

        Are you saying using powerpoint doesn't involve clicking around in a GUI?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

          True professionals create their PowerPoint presentations entirely using C++ code and Office APIs.

    • Re:web GUI (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ljw1004 ( 764174 ) on Sunday December 05, 2021 @01:54PM (#62049671)

      Honest question, isn't being a cloud architect just knowing how to click around in a web GUI?

      From what I've seen of cloud architects, it's unrelated to clicking around in a web GUI. For instance, a cloud architect might be brought in to work on a distributed code editor (in reference to the recent news by JetBrains about their multi-user competitor to VSCode). They'd design...
      * where do we store the documents that users work on?
      * what is the privacy consideration? how will sign on work? federated single sign on? what is the privacy impact of its storage location? what compliance do we need for GDPR and California, and how will that be embodied in the architecture?
      * what is the latency expectation, and how will that be fulfilled?
      * how many data-centers will be used, what service has to be stood up in each one, what is its throughput?
      * what is the failure and recovery model of those services?
      * how will it scale through thousands, millions, billions of users? what will be the bottlenecks at each level?
      * which databases need to be distributed, and how will replication work?
      * what's the threat model?
      * what telemetry will be gathered, and how will it be acted upon?
      * what are the business goals and how does this solution fulfill them or expand them?

      Although maybe I'm misunderstanding the way other people use the term "cloud architect".

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by godrik ( 1287354 )

        That's my understanding of the job as well.

      • That's a few hours with a white board with some team members, job done. Then the hard work ie actually designing and writing the software -begins at which point the architect heads off to shop for some new turtleneck jumpers and thin rimmed coloured glasses.

        • You are obviously not any sort of an architect if you use a whiteboard.

          Visio is king. Learn to make large and complex diagrams with lots and lots of lines and arrows.

      • Can't you do all that by clicking around in a web GUI?

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by MobyDisk ( 75490 )

      No, that would be an IT position or maybe DevOps or something. Without looking at a job posting, and knowing that I live in a Microsoft world, and that I am not a cloud architect, I would say a cloud architect ought to know:

      Cloud databases, like when to use: Hadoop -vs- Storage blobs -vs- SQL Data Lake -vs- CosmosDB -vs- a traditional SQL database running on a VM. They should known IAAS, PAAS, SAAS. They ought to know the implications of those selections on various data privacy regulations around the wor

  • What would be the most tactful way to bring the matter up at my next annual performance review?

    • What would be the most tactful way to bring the matter up at my next annual performance review?

      Find another job. Why should they give you a raise when you are doing the work for the current amount? There is no incentive to give you more unless you are willing to leave. Just remember that saying you will leave unless you get a raise will only work if you mean it.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by mark-t ( 151149 )

        You mistake my intent. I did not say I was necessarily so dissatisfied with what I am making that I am prepared to leave, only that what I am taking from this article is that I am apparently underpaid. I did not ask what might be the best way to get a raise if I was unhappy with my salary, and asked what the most tactful way to point out that their rates are not apparently competitive would be. I am quite far from being so dissatisfied with my current financial compensation to such an extent that I wou

        • The problem is if they realize that you don't really want to leave then it almost doesn't matter if they never give you a raise again. Tough to negotiate unless you have offers from other jobs in your hand and are totally prepared to work for the highest bidder. Even then, when you walk away it won't change much at the old company. They'll find someone else willing to work for less than what they paid you.

          On the other hand, money isn't everything. If your job works well for you then why not keep going at it

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by mark-t ( 151149 )

            LTNS indeed. .Nice to hear from familiar name. Thankfully, things have improved significantly for me since those bygone days.

            But to that point, yes... money isn't everything. I have enough to pay the bills right now, but obviously I can't say that having a bit more would be unwelcome. :)

            I am actually fairly routinely contacted by other employers who are looking for talent, but I politely reject their inquiries with the remark that I am already employed. I feel that trying to secure a job with one o

    • I think the only way to get a real raise is to switch jobs. Or at least be genuinely willing to switch. A questionable value proposition if you have put down roots somewhere without many other options.

      • The biggest raise I got at my current job was when I left for another company, then came back less than a year later. I even got a sign on bonus (stock). It's a nice place, but sometimes their HR and management process is kind of confusing.

    • There is no need to wait for your next performance review. And understand that discussing your salary with your manager is never rude. You don't have to worry about being tactful, because you are entitled to this discussion.

      It's not like you are a bum on the street asking for a hand-out. Asking for a raise is *nothing* like asking for a hand-out. They are not morally equivalent.

      The objective fact is your employer is already making more money off of your efforts than you are. A lot more. That is true e

      • I gotta add a little more. At a higher level:

        1. Assume that the only reason you are underpaid is because your employer is unaware of the shift in market rates, so you are simply pointing that out. Don't assume any malice on the part of your employer, and the discussion will naturally feel more professional and tactful.
        2. Presume that your employer doesn't want to lose you to a rival business, and is already aware that this will happen if you are underpaid. You don't need to threaten to leave (at least no

    • What would be the most tactful way to bring the matter up at my next annual performance review?

      Bring it up before your next annual performance review.

    • Do you have a review discussion of compensation with your manager at least yearly? If yes, then you're in a pretty good position.

      What you want to do is *BEFORE* he comes to you with the CoL increase is ask him what title(s) they are using to determine your salary when compared to your peers.

      Getting this data will tell you if they are trying to line you up with your peers or lowball you. You then go research the title(s) they give you with your peers and see how you stack up. Also, go lookup how you'd stack

  • I'm I making a Capt. Obvious statement? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Sunday December 05, 2021 @12:48PM (#62049507) Journal

    While it's good to know averages, what's missing is info on location, type, and level of development (besides front-end). Those can matter a lot.

    And why does front-end pay so little? That's the hardest part, as it changes the most frequently. Back-end is more stable (no sex jokes, please).

    • Re:I'm I making a Capt. Obvious statement? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Antique Geekmeister ( 740220 ) on Sunday December 05, 2021 @02:08PM (#62049717)

      > And why does front-end pay so little?

      Outsourcing.

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Tablizer ( 95088 )

        Is it more outsource-able than the others? I suppose it requires less domain knowledge such that UI'ers are more plug-and-play. Maybe that's why web standards suck so bad for CRUD/GUI: we can throw cheap 3rd world labor at managing them instead of growing real standards.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by godrik ( 1287354 )

      It's market size. There is a ton of front-end developers. Most of the shitty bootcamp out there are really only training front end developers. So there is a gazillion of front end people out there.

    • The changing frequently is part of the reason it is paid less, experience simply counts for less. Backend is more stable for a reason, people are paid more to make sure it stays that way. Also, by almost definition, you have to start with a backend (else, what does the UI connect to in the first place?) of some kind, even if it is someone else's, and you have to understand that first.

      Also, fundamentally, the data the frontend is accessing is the true value. How you present something is useful and important,

    • And why does front-end pay so little? That's the hardest part, as it changes the most frequently.

      It doesn't require much computer science, so most code camps focus hard on frontend. 8 months training to a front-end developer.

  • Doesn't the dollar sign go after the number? Or is that only on Reddit and in every second meme?

    • I can't tell if this is bait, but whatever, I'll bite: no, the dollar sign goes before the value. Some languages write it otherwise, American English even puts most other currency symbols before their values.
  • Is Robert Half seeding the pot low? Seems so. Minimum for a senior software engineer is like 180k/yr - 200k/yr is stupid easy to find. With inflation next year it will break 240-260k/yr easily. Developers aren't dumb enough to eat inflation, as a norm.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

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