Latest MySQL Release is Underwhelming, Say Some DB Experts (theregister.com) 76
The latest release of MySQL has underwhelmed some commentators who fear Oracle -- the custodian of the open source database -- may have other priorities. From a report: Earlier this month, Oracle -- which has long marketed its range of proprietary database systems -- published the 9.0 version as an "Innovation Release" of MySQL. MySQL 9.0 is now among the three iterations Oracle supports. The others include 8.0 (8.0.38) and the first update of the 8.4 LTS (8.4.1).
[...] In June, Peter Zaitsev, an early MySQL engineer and founder of open source consultancy Percona, said he feared the lack of features in MySQL was a result of Oracle's focus on Heatwave, a proprietary analytics database built on MySQL. He had previously defended Oracle's stewardship of the open source database. The release of MySQL 9.0 has not assuaged those concerns, said colleague Dave Stokes, Percona technology evangelist. It had not lived up to the previous 8.0 release, which arrived with many new features. "MySQL 9.0 is supposed to be an 'innovation release' where [Oracle offers] access to the latest features and improvements and [users] enjoy staying on top of the latest technologies," he said. However, he pointed out most more innovative features, such as vector support and embedded JavaScript store procedures, were not in the free MySQL Community Edition and were only available on the paid-for HeatWave edition. "The ability to store the output of an EXPLAIN command to a variable is not the level of new feature hoped for," he said.
[...] In June, Peter Zaitsev, an early MySQL engineer and founder of open source consultancy Percona, said he feared the lack of features in MySQL was a result of Oracle's focus on Heatwave, a proprietary analytics database built on MySQL. He had previously defended Oracle's stewardship of the open source database. The release of MySQL 9.0 has not assuaged those concerns, said colleague Dave Stokes, Percona technology evangelist. It had not lived up to the previous 8.0 release, which arrived with many new features. "MySQL 9.0 is supposed to be an 'innovation release' where [Oracle offers] access to the latest features and improvements and [users] enjoy staying on top of the latest technologies," he said. However, he pointed out most more innovative features, such as vector support and embedded JavaScript store procedures, were not in the free MySQL Community Edition and were only available on the paid-for HeatWave edition. "The ability to store the output of an EXPLAIN command to a variable is not the level of new feature hoped for," he said.
who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)
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who cares? the users of course
please, stop being dismissive, without critical feedback, no progress is possible
New vs necessary features (Score:5, Informative)
who cares? the users of course
please, stop being dismissive, without critical feedback, no progress is possible
There is a difference between new features and necessary features. That fact that 9 introduced fewer new features than 8 is hardly an indication of doom.
Its OK for a piece of FOSS software to focus on relevant and useful features rather than try to keep up with the commercial feature by feature.
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who cares? the users of course
please, stop being dismissive, without critical feedback, no progress is possible
There is a difference between new features and necessary features. That fact that 9 introduced fewer new features than 8 is hardly an indication of doom.
Its OK for a piece of FOSS software to focus on relevant and useful features rather than try to keep up with the commercial feature by feature.
you again huh, figures
I'm happy that people contribute but when corporations take over FOSS and use it to drive their classist business model, I suspect the generous developers are getting exploited by some transnational corporation run by suits.
just saying
i can keep responding to your trolling, I have the technology
and the patience and persistence
no problem, I always need the practice
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I'm happy that people contribute but when corporations take over FOSS and use it to drive their classist business model, I suspect the generous developers are getting exploited by some transnational corporation run by suits.
How so? Developers lose none of their contributions. As soon as they believe there is abuse or exploitation they are free to fork the source code. I guess they might have lost their belief that corp/org XYZ is honorable and acts in good faith, but that seems a rather trivial compared to the source code..
i can keep responding to your trolling,
LOL. Please demonstrate your logic and insight so that the world may enjoy.
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hiya troll, still getting mad when your ineffective insults and abuse fail to demonstrate anything but how unethical you are?
keep trying, I have ll of eternity
ink is cheap,, the humor i get form this is endless
thanks for being such a priceless jerk, I sure feel better being me
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LOL. Please demonstrate your logic and insight so that the world may enjoy.
hiya troll, still getting mad when your ineffective insults and abuse fail to demonstrate anything but how unethical you are?
keep trying, I have ll of eternity
ink is cheap,, the humor i get form this is endless thanks for being such a priceless jerk, I sure feel better being me
Thank you for your thoughts, they were most illustrative.
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no one is here but you and me troll
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unpaid developers code is being used to make rich people who used the code richer
no, they don't fairly share the wealth either
typical classist parasites
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unpaid developers code is being used to make rich people who used the code richer
That was their choice, they always knew there would be freeloaders who neither donate or contribute their own time.
no, they don't fairly share the wealth either typical classist parasites
FOSS projects typically have no revenue to share.
Also there are corporations that do contribute back to FOSS projects they utilize. This can go beyond the odd new features or bug fixes, sometimes we have outright subsidizing of the project's development. Sometimes from a university, sometimes from corporations.
"The top 10 organizations sponsoring Linux kernel development since the last re
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unpaid developers code is being used to make rich people who used the code richer
That was their choice, they always knew there would be freeloaders who neither donate or contribute their own time.
no, they don't fairly share the wealth either typical classist parasites
FOSS projects typically have no revenue to share. Also there are corporations that do contribute back to FOSS projects they utilize. This can go beyond the odd new features or bug fixes, sometimes we have outright subsidizing of the project's development. Sometimes from a university, sometimes from corporations.
"The top 10 organizations sponsoring Linux kernel development since the last report are Intel, Red Hat, Linaro, IBM, Samsung, SUSE, Google, AMD, Renesas, and Mellanox."
https://www.linuxfoundation.or... [linuxfoundation.org]
Seriously? Obviously these corporations can do more, we all know that, not to mention how often they often don't even bother to compensate the FOSS community in any way despite earning billions in revenue. It seems they are all too happy to take as much as they can while contributing as little as possible. Everyone knows these corporations are self-serving and often unethical and short sighted. Or are you going to try to deny that too?
"A new paper presents an eyebrow-raising figure. Without open source soft
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unpaid developers code is being used to make rich people who used the code richer
That was their choice, they always knew there would be freeloaders who neither donate or contribute their own time.
no, they don't fairly share the wealth either typical classist parasites
FOSS projects typically have no revenue to share. Also there are corporations that do contribute back to FOSS projects they utilize. This can go beyond the odd new features or bug fixes, sometimes we have outright subsidizing of the project's development. Sometimes from a university, sometimes from corporations. "The top 10 organizations sponsoring Linux kernel development since the last report are Intel, Red Hat, Linaro, IBM, Samsung, SUSE, Google, AMD, Renesas, and Mellanox."
https://www.linuxfoundation.or... [linuxfoundation.org]
Seriously? Obviously these corporations can do more, we all know that, ...
We all could do more. We all contribute far less than we receive. That's how FOSS works, many people/companies making relatively small contributions, all of it adding up to a useful project.
not to mention how often they often don't even bother to compensate the FOSS community in any way despite earning billions in revenue.
Like many individual users. That's an expected part of the FOSS ecosystem. If you expect everyone to pay their share for the project's development, you are basically recreating the commercial software market. FOSS is intentionally designed to be something else.
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no, no true, these corporations aren't respecting the terms nor are they contributing
they are exploiting the situation and evil people like you encourage this
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no, no true, these corporations aren't respecting the terms nor are they contributing
The terms do not require supporting the devs. The software is generally provided, gratis, as is, with the hope it is useful.
The terms require publishing source code if you create and publish a derived work.
they are exploiting the situation and evil people like you encourage this
Most everyone is freeloading in some manner. What developers are being funded are generally through universities or corporations.
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speak for yourself
while we all stand on those who went before, only the entitled upper classes and their lackeys take more than they give back
sound familiar? just asking
I've got all day
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The terms do not require supporting the devs. The software is generally provided, gratis, as is, with the hope it is useful. The terms require publishing source code if you create and publish a derived work.
speak for yourself
Actually I'm sharing what FOSS developers often put in their disclaimers, and what FOSS licenses often require.
while we all stand on those who went before, only the entitled upper classes and their lackeys take more than they give back
Absolutely untrue. We all give back less than we receive. One could work full time, gratis, on a major FOSS project and your contributions will still be a minor part of the overall work, the overall utility that you receive as a user.
This is part of the meaning behind the phrase you used, "we all stand on those who went before", except it is more commonly used in a scientific context.
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The terms do not require supporting the devs. The software is generally provided, gratis, as is, with the hope it is useful.
The terms require publishing source code if you create and publish a derived work.
speak for yourself
Actually I'm sharing what FOSS developers often put in their disclaimers, and what FOSS licenses often require.
while we all stand on those who went before, only the entitled upper classes and their lackeys take more than they give back
Absolutely untrue. We all give back less than we receive. One could work full time, gratis, on a major FOSS project and your contributions will still be a minor part of the overall work, the overall utility that you receive as a user.
This is part of the meaning behind the phrase you used, "we all stand on those who went before", except it is more commonly used in a scientific context.
meanwhile it seems you support evil people who take advantage of the generosity of others
stallman warned us about this classit exploitation of coders and how industry uses and abuses its power
still in denial i see
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meanwhile it seems you support evil people who take advantage of the generosity of others
Nope, I am acknowledging the reality that nearly every FOSS user receives far more than they give back.
That generosity of others also includes the knowledge that this "freeloading" will happen, yet FOSS developers contribute anyways. It's not exploitation when you are voluntarily making a donation knowing you will received nothing in return. Other than possibly high status among fellow developers, which can manifest in better jobs, etc.
stallman warned us about this classit exploitation of coders and how industry uses and abuses its power still in denial i see
Class has little to nothing to do with it. Users of all class backgro
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no they don't, many, if not most, give far more than they receive and your a liar for suggesting otherwise
your reason is shallow and suspect
for instance, contributing is not free loading nor do you address the real freeloaders, the rich who abscond with all the work the poor do
go ahead you classist troll, demonstrate your lack of ethical understanding for all the world to see
so awesome to see crap in action
i've got all the time in the world to deal with crap like this
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no they don't, many, if not most, give far more than they receive and your a liar for suggesting otherwise your reason is shallow and suspect
My reason is I know how much work goes into even a small project. Almost everyone gets far more than they put in. Even people paying for commercial software are often getting far more than they put in, that's why commercial software sells. Its why corporations pay for the development of FOSS, they too are getting far more than they put in, its why corporations contribute. And when you look at project like the Linux kernel, you will find more than half of it is written by corporations and paid consultants. A
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and meanwhile people like you encourage this classist rip off to continue, probably because you're one of the recipients of undeserved wealth, guilty conscience?
no wonder the truth bothers you so
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How so? Developers lose none of their contributions. As soon as they believe there is abuse or exploitation they are free to fork the source code. I guess they might have lost their belief that corp/org XYZ is honorable and acts in good faith, but that seems a rather trivial compared to the source code..
i can keep responding to your trolling,
LOL. Please demonstrate your logic and insight so that the world may enjoy.
“Old Joe is still picking cotton.” Of course, instead of racial slavery, the modern corporation is dependent upon economic slavery. So, is the current situation actually economic slavery? The distinction hinges upon whether most people can reasonably hope to be free of debt; and herein lies the obvious truth. There must be those among us who do not make this cut. That is, there are people who will never be free of debt. these people will work, or not, but in ether case will remain forever indebt
A FOSS contributor is not a slave (Score:2)
instead of racial slavery, the modern corporation is dependent upon economic slavery.
A FOSS contributor is not a slave. Their contributions are voluntary. And if they ever feel they are treated unfairly, they are free to take the project source code and fork, they have lost none of their contributions, not their peers.
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when people are being exploited economically, then that is a form or economic slavery
people should be compensated fairly, if a corporation wants to profit from FOSS code, they need to support the FOSS community otherwise they are just parasites
sad that exploitation should be seen as business in the first place, however greed often overcomes principles and leads to decline, as we see all around us
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when people are being exploited economically, then that is a form or economic slavery.
FOSS contributors are not being economically exploited. They knew up front there was no direct compensation, they knew others would benefit from their work, just as they were benefitting from the work of other contributors to the project.
people should be compensated fairly, ...
One individual FOSS contributor is compensated by the work of all the other FOSS contributors on the project. Both individual volunteers and corporate sponsored.
... if a corporation wants to profit from FOSS code, they need to support the FOSS community ...
Many do. Like individuals they contribute to the code. And just like individuals, many freeload. And such freelo
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when people are being exploited economically, then that is a form or economic slavery.
FOSS contributors are not being economically exploited. They knew up front there was no direct compensation, they knew others would benefit from their work, just as they were benefitting from the work of other contributors to the project.
people should be compensated fairly, ...
One individual FOSS contributor is compensated by the work of all the other FOSS contributors on the project. Both individual volunteers and corporate sponsored.
... if a corporation wants to profit from FOSS code, they need to support the FOSS community ...
Many do. Like individuals they contribute to the code. And just like individuals, many freeload. And such freeloading was always expected. FOSS contributors know about that up front. They had a choice.
more trolling, keep it up, I've got forever
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you're trolling me on two topics simultaneous, wow, ain't technology grand
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Well, sure, if all you're doing is using your database as a backing store for a low transaction volume web application, all you need are the most basic of capabilities.
But in the real world features beyond basic DML support matter. Take administration. How robust are the backup and restoration features? Are there tools for examining the transaction log, and perhaps even rolling back transactions after they're committed? What kind of security features does the database have? What kinds of performance opt
Not surprising. (Score:3, Informative)
This is the same DBMS where UTF-8 wasn't really UTF-8 [medium.com], GROUP BY wasn't really GROUP BY [tableplus.com], and CTE support - added by Microsoft in 2005 - wasn't added until the release of 8.0 in 2016.
Well, duh! (Score:5, Interesting)
The sky is blue. Water is wet. If you do business with Oracle, you're gonna get screwed. These are just common-sense concepts that I figured everyone knew by now.
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False. The sky is colorless. It is only because of the scattering of light that it appears blue to our eyes.
Water is wet.
False again. Water makes what it touches, wet.*
* Exceptions to hydrophobic substances and surfaces.
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Found the pedant! ;-)
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Isn't it only because of the scattering of the light that anything is any color?
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It is only because of the scattering of light that it appears blue to our eyes.
"Scattering of light that appears blue" is what we call "blue."
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Water is wet,
The Sky is Blue,
Do business with Oracle,
You're gonna get screwed!
.
FTFY
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Burma Shave!
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Thanks - I needed a laugh just now!
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Water is wet and the sky is blue,
Buy from Oracle and they're going to screw you.
This is just common sense I thought everyone knew.
Go with MariaDB, a fork (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't trust Oracle! They allegedly have more lawyers than engineers. Look at their history: they are among the slimiest of tech companies.
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I've been using MariaDB for a few years and it works just as MySQL
Welcome to the round table, take a seat (Score:2)
today's topic for discussion is: When are old "softwares" good enough?
Or: How to think of using only the middle parts of a software product's bell curve of features and not use the fringe features.
Restricting your IT systems to using the core features of a product is often a good risk management and long-term maintenance strategy.
Don't most Linux servers run MariaDB? (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't most servers run MariaDB these days? And are there any good reasons not to use PostgreSQL instead?
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This! Almost nobody uses mysql anymore excepted maybe people who want to back their asses with a Oracle license. Postgres is fine too.
The dude providing mariadb created mysql back then and was smart enough to license it so he could fork it when Oracle bought Sun which had previously acquired mysql.
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Don't most servers run MariaDB these days?
As I recall, many, but not all, Linux distros now recommend/default to MariaDB (although MySQL is typically also available as a package). However, Canonical, due to a "marketing agreement" (i.e. presumably some form of monetary exchange with Oracle) defaults to MySQL (although one can install MariaDB). There are some differences in the features/functionality between MySQL and MariaDB, although for most using the free versions using a simple one server database with a modestly sized database and using simp
Re: Don't most Linux servers run MariaDB? (Score:1)
Re: Don't most Linux servers run MariaDB? (Score:3)
Yes, most servers use MariaDB.
No, you still need MySQL or equivalent for many situations because SQL is insufficiently standard. For example Drupal supports both but some modules only work with MySQL.
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MariaDB is preferred for Linux and much of the cloud space. The author was able to address some problems that had been held up by backwards compatibility reasons, and they've not been missed.
To understand what Oracle does with open source databases, look at their handling of SleepyCat's Software's Berkeley DB, which was always loathed by many users. They provided on-going support if you paid them enough, and did keep the basic tool open source, but abandoned development. SleepyCat had been very excited to t
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Oh yes. How I miss Berkeley DB. Every time there was a performance issue, the devs would say tune it. How? Well it depends on your install. I never could get a straight answer about what parameters to tweak to make OpenLDAP perform have decent.
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And are there any good reasons not to use PostgreSQL instead?
MySQL/MariaDB uses less resources, so if your app does not need the additional features (example: you need to run WordPress) then MySQL/MariaDB is good enough.
Underwhelming? (Score:3)
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Does this come as a surprise to anybody? (Score:3)
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I dislike Oracle as much as the next guy, but you don't sound like you've ever used it. It's fast af, especially on complex queries, where open source counterparts typically flail.
It's only usable if you can afford Oracle. (Score:2)
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I dislike Oracle as much as the next guy, but you don't sound like you've ever used it. It's fast af, especially on complex queries, where open source counterparts typically flail.
I've never liked Oracle. I didn't find it to be fast nor reliable. How can it be when it does stupid shit like allocating one row per page if you create a table where the clustered index is not the primary key? The lack of update from or any logical equivalence rather than inherently broken concepts like merge. Various arbitrary engine restrictions "mutation" bullshit with no logical basis. Lack of simple features like procedures returning result sets without explicit cursors. At the time Oracle didn'
Re:Does this come as a surprise to anybody? (Score:5, Insightful)
I looks like MySQL is going the way Oracle went with stored procedures and embedded code, too. This is a terrible fucking idea that always sounds somewhat reasonable at first, then turns into a debugging nightmare. When you put code outside of the normal execution and code path, it makes debugging super difficult. Take a simple example like currency conversion. If you have a stored procedure converting Yen to Dollars or something, then you're main executable tries to do further tweaking of the value, you end up with mysteries around why inserts into column XYZ always get "corrupted" and then you have programmers fixing code that DBAs fucked up or visa versa and constantly stepping on each other's sand-castles in adjacent "separate but equal" sandboxes. In actual practice it's a disaster and a fucking boondoggle-generator.
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Oracle was never a good database. It was just a different lock-in alternative to MS SQL Server, and less capable.
Stop the f-ing "features" (Score:3)
No one needs more "features". It does what it needs to do. Fix the bugs, make it faster, leave "features" to fleece your paying customers.
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ORACLE = One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison (Score:5, Insightful)
These days PostgreSQL is where it is at. It has been around for very long time and it has picked up a lot of steam recently with many exciting changes being released.
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I'd argue the best OSS RDMBS depends on the kind of apps or shop size.
Small: SQLite
Medium: MariaDB
Large: PostgreSQL (or high-value/critical transactions)
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Is PostgreSQL vs. InnoDB the new EMACS vs. Vim fight?
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> we basically agree excepted I'd add both postgres and innodb will scale equally fine for Medium and Large, always depending on the use case of course.
Well, okay. But, my gut impression is that since PG tends to be used for larger projects more often in practice, the PG supporting tooling and online knowledge base is better suited for the larger end. It's kind of like a first-mover advantage. Maybe the difference will shrink over time, but that's the here and now.
Freemium model (Score:2)
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That's absolutely true, but not quite fair. To be sure, Oracle's database was fairly amazing stuff when they first hit the market. Even then, for an appropriate price, but their product was pretty powerful (if more than a little esoteric and just a little fragile). Once upon a time, Oracle had stuff I wanted to learn more about and use.
They've been resting on their laurels for several decades now. They don't even know how much of their organization is just dead, decaying corporate cruft (think: C-Suite