Ellison Declares Oracle 'All In' On AI Mass Surveillance 107
Oracle cofounder Larry Ellison envisions AI as the backbone of a new era of mass surveillance, positioning Oracle as a key player in AI infrastructure through its unique networking architecture and partnerships with AWS and Microsoft. The Register reports: Ellison made the comments near the end of an hour-long chat at the Oracle financial analyst meeting last week during a question and answer session in which he painted Oracle as the AI infrastructure player to beat in light of its recent deals with AWS and Microsoft. Many companies, Ellison touted, build AI models at Oracle because of its "unique networking architecture," which dates back to the database era.
"AI is hot, and databases are not," he said, making Oracle's part of the puzzle less sexy, but no less important, at least according to the man himself - AI systems have to have well-organized data, or else they won't be that valuable. The fact that some of the biggest names in cloud computing (and Elon Musk's Grok) have turned to Oracle to run their AI infrastructure means it's clear that Oracle is doing something right, claimed now-CTO Ellison. "If Elon and Satya [Nadella] want to pick us, that's a good sign - we have tech that's valuable and differentiated," Ellison said, adding: One of the ideal uses of that differentiated offering? Maximizing AI's pubic security capabilities.
"The police will be on their best behavior because we're constantly watching and recording everything that's going on," Ellison told analysts. He described police body cameras that were constantly on, with no ability for officers to disable the feed to Oracle. Even requesting privacy for a bathroom break or a meal only meant sections of recording would require a subpoena to view - not that the video feed was ever stopped. AI would be trained to monitor officer feeds for anything untoward, which Ellison said could prevent abuse of police power and save lives. [...] "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we're constantly recording and reporting," Ellison added, though it's not clear what he sees as the source of those recordings - police body cams or publicly placed security cameras. "There are so many opportunities to exploit AI," he said.
"AI is hot, and databases are not," he said, making Oracle's part of the puzzle less sexy, but no less important, at least according to the man himself - AI systems have to have well-organized data, or else they won't be that valuable. The fact that some of the biggest names in cloud computing (and Elon Musk's Grok) have turned to Oracle to run their AI infrastructure means it's clear that Oracle is doing something right, claimed now-CTO Ellison. "If Elon and Satya [Nadella] want to pick us, that's a good sign - we have tech that's valuable and differentiated," Ellison said, adding: One of the ideal uses of that differentiated offering? Maximizing AI's pubic security capabilities.
"The police will be on their best behavior because we're constantly watching and recording everything that's going on," Ellison told analysts. He described police body cameras that were constantly on, with no ability for officers to disable the feed to Oracle. Even requesting privacy for a bathroom break or a meal only meant sections of recording would require a subpoena to view - not that the video feed was ever stopped. AI would be trained to monitor officer feeds for anything untoward, which Ellison said could prevent abuse of police power and save lives. [...] "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we're constantly recording and reporting," Ellison added, though it's not clear what he sees as the source of those recordings - police body cams or publicly placed security cameras. "There are so many opportunities to exploit AI," he said.
Looks like Oracle has reached "peak evil" (Score:5, Insightful)
I am sure they will supply nice software to compile the death-lists as well. Anything for a buck.
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Looks to me like the article is hyperbole and there's nothing to indicate he was talking about anything more than police body cams.
No, he means mass surveillance for everyone:
"The police will be on their best behavior because we're constantly watching and recording everything that's going on,"
Not that having police wear body cams has done much to curb the police.
Re:Looks like Oracle has reached "peak evil" (Score:5, Interesting)
I disagree, we've come a very long ways from Rodney King and the LAPD of that time. The idea of police being convicted of anything was nonexistent.
I am in favor of police not being able to turn off their cams, but I think NONE of it should be available (cryptographically enforced) without a court order, and then the same video should be shared with the prosecution and the defense (or in the adjudication of a complaint against the officer).
These ultimately are not technical questions. In my town they deployed speed cameras - and they got voted down in a referendum and had to remove them. Democracy in action.
Re:Looks like Oracle has reached "peak evil" (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a fan of some kind of escrow that can only be access (cryptographically, etc) via court order, so that the availability becomes part of the regular investigatory/discovery process.
Cameras are close to fixing the problem. However, the system has adapted to them to continue the corruption as much as it can.
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So your view is that if a police officer plants drugs on a person, that person should be left in jail until the discovery phase of their trial, which is months later at best?
There is no eyeroll emoji big enough for that notion.
Police are granted incredible power. Up to and incl
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In my town they deployed speed cameras - and they got voted down in a referendum and had to remove them. Democracy in action.
In my town we got a few, too. They were spray painted over, set on fire, and hit with high powered rifle fire from very far away and left with large holes in them. All it did was cost the pigs a lot of cash. Democracy in action.
Re:Looks like Oracle has reached "peak evil" (Score:5, Interesting)
>>No, he means mass surveillance for everyone:
Precisely, just look at Britain where most people feel they live under constant surveillance and at least half are ok with it. [wikipedia.org]
Just imagine the manpower, even in London, needed to review all footage and tag or respond to it. While large cities are using such tactics in Atlanta, NYC and Washington DC [comparitech.com] most Americans outside of those areas would feel very sorely put upon to have everything recorded, much less not wanting to paying for it
But, what if AI products prove to be cost effective, and general benefit to human life gets people well past the ick factor. Oracle, or whoever leads the pack, will make a mint, and it would be short sighted for the people leading those companies not to consider it
>>Not that having police wear body cams has done much to curb the police.
The police department where I live will most likely have to operate under a consent decree with the DOJ. Their training and general behavior was recorded on body cams and they were so used to acting in that manner they did not even realize they were violating people's civil rights. The leadership is fighting it in the press now, but eventually they will at the minimum receive training to know what laws they were breaking.
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Anglo Saxon here. In breaking news, the surveillance society was defeated by hoodies and masks.
In our most recent riots, the chumps, rhymes with Trumps, that were banged up for their part in throwing rocks at police, looting and trying to burn down hotels with people inside; were all unmasked and unhoodied.
Try a Hijab, for an air of alluring mystery and personal security.
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Anglo Saxon here. In breaking news, the surveillance society was defeated by hoodies and masks.
https://www.earth.com/news/tec... [earth.com]
The artificial intelligence (AI) system was found to accurately identify a person by their walk 99.3 percent of the time.
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Just imagine the manpower, even in London, needed to review all footage and tag or respond to it.
This is, to some extent, why it works in the UK. There is no such manpower. In investigations, when it actually matters (murders / rapes etc.) they often fail to gather the footage before it expires or gets overwritten. You have to be doing something someone cares about for them to find it. Our famed huge number of cameras are largely privately owned and often ineffective. You still get the chilling effects and lack of privacy, though.
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CTTV cameras are generally useless to identify and catch suspects. This is the "Big Lie" of camera surveillance. Cameras are nice to track ordinary citizens, though.
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I'd also point out that a vast number of the cameras are privately owned, and so for the state/police/security services to do something really serious, they'd have to go and get footage from a dozen private entities - at least a few of whom will request a court order. In an situation like that, all the AI in the world isn't really all that useful - yes, it can look through hours of footage and tell you the important bits, but just getting access to the footage is a far longer and more difficult problem. It'
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But, what if AI products prove to be cost effective, and general benefit to human life gets people well past the ick factor.
Yeah. What if...
Well, lets look at the past at how those in power deal with those that are provably 'less than desirable'.Serbia/Bosnia come to mind. Cambodia comes to mind. Germany comes to mind. Russia comes to mind. Hm, it is almost like there is a pattern of willful destruction of undesirables.
What do you think will happen after society is 'sorted' by AI? I have not heard of a more dangerous idea proposed since we invented biological warfare. Not even fusion bombs are this dangerous.
Active eugenics prog
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Is mugging people, or public acts of violence really a eugenics issue?
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Is mugging people, or public acts of violence really a eugenics issue?
I love your innocence. Seriously. You are correct that public acts of violence are not a eugenics issue. Think further.
Do you think there are enough resources to go after every single 'crime' that will be committed? There are only so many police officers and only so much jail space. What groups do you think will be 'rounded up' first? What kinds of conditions will they be held in?
That is only scratching the surface. To get a little deeper, every single person will be identified at all times in public spaces
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I am not that innocent (Oops!)
As a user of Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy, I recognize cameras as a non-emotional (rational) viewpoint that can be used to discern "real" threats and measure my responses to them, while emotional evidence is complete drivel that leads to forced outcomes
This is what we used to see when an officer would appear in court as an indisputable expert, and they said, 'I smelled the odor of smoked marijuana coming from the car:, which then lead to a complete search and (inevitable)
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You are concentrating on the tech, not the people in charge of the tech. Yes, the tech is amoral. It is as accurate as can be (considering perspective and other real world limitations). In theory, it should be perfect. But it is perfect only as long as you don't consider what laws will be enforced.
Want to go to a Baptist church on Sundays? Neither do I; however, that might be enforced upon you. Want your wife to walk around in whatever she wants? She may not be allowed to. Do you want to buy a beer on a Sun
Re:Looks like Oracle has reached "peak evil" (Score:5, Informative)
I guess you missed this part of the story: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we're constantly recording and reporting,". Yes, this may be police body-cams now, but clearly the intent is to develop and optimize this tech and clearly it can be used in a much more general context afterwards. Also, clearly, Ellison understands that.
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I guess you missed this part of the story: "Citizens will be on their best behavior because we're constantly recording and reporting,". Yes, this may be police body-cams now, but clearly the intent is to develop and optimize this tech and clearly it can be used in a much more general context afterwards. Also, clearly, Ellison understands that.
I'm sure he does. The "addressable market" increases when it's more than just the police and there's no way that Ellison isn't thinking of that. Still, I hate the way people misrepresented this because it damages credibility for when we need it later. Right now it's a reasonable answer to "who watches the watchers" and the little curve down at the top of TuxRacer before the slippery slope to the depths.
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Narcissist, hates everybody, power hungry... (Score:2)
Re:Looks like Oracle has reached "peak evil" (Score:5, Insightful)
I dunno. I worked for a small developer who was an Oracle partner, so I've had meetings at both sales offices and development sites and Oracle offices alway gave me the creeps. I mean, yeah, a company is supposed to make a profit, but there's a point where it starts to feel a bit like an evil cult.
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Fascism is profitable [wikipedia.org]
What's that Greem Mars quote? (Score:5, Interesting)
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I find little different between a communist and a libertarian in that regard - sure, they may have different philosophies, but in the end, there is a strong man oppressing the masses under the guise of 'equality'.
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He held a fundraiser for Rand Paul at his house in 2014
https://venturebeat.com/busine... [venturebeat.com]
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Who told you you have to be in the libertarian party to be one? Don't be daft, Rand Paul as a libertarian was a common understanding. You're going in the full No True Scotsman direction with this, huh?
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/0... [nytimes.com]
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Jeezuz. (Score:2)
Kill me.
Lots of idiotic hyperbole (Score:5, Informative)
First post on slashdot and a lot of inane babble on twitter about this being for ordinary citizens. In reality what Ellison is talking about is police body cameras and police vehicle cameras.
Here's the video of the point he's making in context:
https://x.com/tsarnick/status/... [x.com]
Overall, the change being proposed is that police can no longer turn cameras off. That they're always on, and always sending video to servers, where AI looks for any signs of misconduct by police and by citizens police is interacting with. And since this amount of data is going to be impossible for humans to work with, AI will be unleashed on it to look for problems rather than humans.
Overall, a nasty vision of the future, but not significantly different from status quo where police body cameras and police car cameras are omnipresent in many developed countries.
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Automatic license plate readers, mounted on police cars or on objects like road signs and bridges
What happens when Larry gets his hands on this data for his new Orwellian type world? I'm sure no company would sell that data for profit....
Moreover, private companies are also using license plate readers and sharing the information they collect with police with little or no oversight or privacy protections.
Add a few more cameras, because of "the immigrants" or whatever fever dream they come up with. It's 1984 with the government and private corporations watching you 24/7/365.
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Not sure if you're a victim of hyperbole who hasn't listened to the video, or you know what you're doing and you're pumping up hysteria for shits and giggles. Let's debunk the BS:
>What happens when Larry gets his hands on this data for his new Orwellian type world? I'm sure no company would sell that data for profit.
First of all, it makes no sense to sell the goose that lays the golden eggs. Second, in his vision it requires court order to use the data, much less sell it. It helps to listen to the video
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Second, in his vision it requires court order to use the data, much less sell it. It helps to listen to the video linked above.
Court order? Oh, *that* will stop hackers from breaking in and exfiltrating the video! Heck, they might even release it to the public, which would completely blow any privacy out of the water.
Surveilling people 24/7 comes with huge privacy risks. At bare minimum, Oracle needs to implement strong security measures, including deleting older data so it can't be stolen en masse. I doubt that will happen.
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>stop hackers from breaking in and exfiltrating the video!
Nothing stops them from doing it now. Again for the utterly braindead people that are apparently drawn to this thread like zombies to the brains still capable of rational thought: this is not a story about adding a lot more video. This is a story about actually using existing video.
Re: Lots of idiotic hyperbole (Score:1)
Youâ(TM)re one of those people who believe everything. Naive. Whatâ(TM)s the saying, easier to slaughter or somethingâ¦
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>google sells their goose constantly
You really don't have a faintest clue what google sells, do you?
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No, and neither are courts, nor any humans ultimately.
This is why talking in absolutes is peak idiocy. Errare humanum est.
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In reality what Ellison is talking about is police body cameras and police vehicle cameras.
Except that's not what he was talking about. That was one talking point out of many.
From TFA:
"Citizens will be on their best behavior because we're constantly recording and reporting," Ellison added
Citizens. Not police. Citizens.
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You are lying by omitting context:
Context: Citizens being filmed by police cameras during interactions with police. Something that has been omnipresent ever since Floyd riots.
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We should start by adding massive penalties set by legislature for Oracle allowing, willingly or not, unauthorized access to the footage they collect. No saying "oups, we've been hacked, all police videos from all of US have been leaked" - such an event should wipe out Oracle financially, to serve as a massive motivators to keep the data secure from hackers and even their own employees. Then, require Oracle to be insured, see if there is an ins
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That was literally his vision. That it would require court order to access the feed by people other than those related directly to the case. Because he doesn't want anyone else to get the goose that lays golden eggs. The payments would come from processing the video with AI and services associated with that for police, prosecutors and defendants.
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Your complaint is that in a one and a half minute segment he didn't provide minute details on specifics of fines for each case of potential violation of rules.
Are you aware how utterly unhinged you sound?
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First post on slashdot and a lot of inane babble on twitter about this being for ordinary citizens. In reality what Ellison is talking about is police body cameras and police vehicle cameras.
Here's the video of the point he's making in context:
https://x.com/tsarnick/status/... [x.com]
Overall, the change being proposed is that police can no longer turn cameras off. That they're always on, and always sending video to servers, where AI looks for any signs of misconduct by police and by citizens police is interacting with. And since this amount of data is going to be impossible for humans to work with, AI will be unleashed on it to look for problems rather than humans.
Overall, a nasty vision of the future, but not significantly different from status quo where police body cameras and police car cameras are omnipresent in many developed countries.
I'm sorry, but these exact words:
"Citizens will be on their best behavior because we're constantly recording and reporting," Ellison added, though it's not clear what he sees as the source of those recordings - police body cams or publicly placed security cameras. "There are so many opportunities to exploit AI," he said.
That right there is dystopian nightmare fuel. I can't imagine being any level of public figure and being so disconnected from the current public that you spout shit like that without batting an eye. "Yes, citizen, you will behave because we are always watching." Fuck you, Evil Santa Claus. I mean, most of the tech-bros just subtly hint at the surveillance state they've helped build. Ellison comes along and tries to pile on by adding, "We'll take it far further, and make it
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I'm sorry but these words:
>I can't imagine
That right there is something that tells me that you're severely brain damaged, because all healthy people have some level of ability to imagine things.
Now that we understand why lying by omitting context of the quote is bad, because you're not actually admitting to having massive brain damage in context, and I need to take that quote completely out of context to derive that conclusion, we can come back to the original quote.
Which is the actual main talking point
Clarke wrote about this (Score:5, Interesting)
The Light of Other Days [wikipedia.org], written by Stephen Baxter based on notes from Arthur C. Clarke, goes over this mass surveillance topic. Starting from one wormhole able to vaguely see something, to everyone anywhere able to view whatever they want at any time, or within time itself, the book discusses possible changes to society where nothing is private. Solving crimes becomes far easier because you can witness what took place with an unbiased eye. Government meetings which were once highly secretive and classified no longer exist. Corporate secrets fall to the ease of espionage.
It's not a heavy read, but it covers the topics well.
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In 1984 and Minority Report and the war-genre movie, Eye in the Sky (2015), the government has the spyware, using it to deliberately or accidentally punish any sort of enemy. In the movie, Sneakers (1992), the idea of government losing its secrets arises but the idea isn't explored, with the USA attempting to be the sole owner of the universal spyware.
Re: Clarke wrote about this (Score:1)
COOTYS RAT SEMEN
So.. he wants to create "god" in his own image? (Score:5, Insightful)
A being / entity / thing that sees your every move, and you can't turn it off.
How.. "god" like. Or Santa-like. Or stalker-like.
He sees you when you're sleeping
He knows when you're awake
He knows if you've been bad or good
So, be good for goodness' sake!
The man has delusions of grandeur, or is the biggest micromanager in the history of corporate micromanagement.
Or, he's the very thing Orwell warned about, in 1984. Right now you lot are lukewarm (instead of openly hostile) at the idea -- because in Ellison's vision, this thing is pointed at police.
Wait until they point it at us. Then you'll be all sorts of sore. A panopticon.
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Ok, wait just a second here. I want to go on record as being openly hostile to this idea, and in particular just the part about ceding judgement to "AI" on such matters. Some interactions shouldn't be allowed to happen in secret, and need as much redundant peer review as possible, but trusting machines for work like this sets a dangerous precedent by removing accountability from the review process itself. I wasn't gonna bother commenting on this at all, because I'm already being watched constantly and I did
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A being / entity / thing that sees your every move, and you can't turn it off.
How.. "god" like. Or Santa-like. Or stalker-like.
He sees you when you're sleeping He knows when you're awake He knows if you've been bad or good So, be good for goodness' sake!
The man has delusions of grandeur, or is the biggest micromanager in the history of corporate micromanagement.
Or, he's the very thing Orwell warned about, in 1984. Right now you lot are lukewarm (instead of openly hostile) at the idea -- because in Ellison's vision, this thing is pointed at police.
Wait until they point it at us. Then you'll be all sorts of sore. A panopticon.
He's already planning on pointing it at ordinary citizens. It's right there in the summary, but people are glossing it over because we've become so used to trying to desensitize ourselves to the horror we're living through. It's 100% guaranteed it would happen anyway, but to just come right out and say it is sort of leaving me baffled.
We could stop this (Score:1, Insightful)
But while everyone is freaking out of the citizens of Springfield eating dogs Larry's busy doing this. It's a trick. A distraction.
"One Rich Asshole (Score:3)
Called Larry Ellison"
What is that, two decades old?
> Citizens will be on their best behavior because we're constantly recording and reporting
OK, Buddy, put down the 1984.
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He can merely buy or swipe such tech from Xi, who runs the Greatest Snoopatron in the solar system.
Best "qualifications" (Score:4, Funny)
"Only a greedy psychopath would make a mass snooping engine."
Larry Ellison: "You rang?"
"...on their best behavior...". Yea. Right. (Score:4, Insightful)
Nope. At this point, the police and citizens are still people, and, IMHO, people frequently hand the controls over to their egos and subsequently do Really Stupid Shit.
Battle of the Billionerds (Score:2, Funny)
Maybe Ellison should talk to Musk first, since Musk wet himself when that kid tracked Musk's private jet.
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Okay joke, especially since I originally misread the story title as a criticism of Oracle coming from Elon. "Ellison" looks a bit like "Elon"?
delusion of privacy (Score:1)
People think that their privacy will protect their freedom. Freedom to rebel against oppressive government
That ship has sailed long time ago. The only way is forward. At least we will get safer poor neighborhoods, finally.
We already live in distopian world so at least we might enjoy some perks of massive government.
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Just think of the explosive sales of integrated mask/hat/hood-wear [walmart.com] that will become de-rigueur for trendy folk heading into the inky black for gods know what [flickr.com]
We need a new constitutional amendment (Score:2, Insightful)
AI should not be used to discover petty crime, because then it's stupid and can be used to target people. Do we really need to catch serial jay-walkers when there are murderers and rapists getting away with stuff? 50% of murders are unsolved in the US, and rapes have an even lower solve rate of 25%. But hey we can use AI to out people who didn't return their library book. These AI tools can be used for political purposes via selective law enforcement.
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AI should not be used to discover petty crime, because then it's stupid and can be used to target people. Do we really need to catch serial jay-walkers when there are murderers and rapists getting away with stuff? 50% of murders are unsolved in the US, and rapes have an even lower solve rate of 25%. But hey we can use AI to out people who didn't return their library book. These AI tools can be used for political purposes via selective law enforcement.
The "good" of such tech from the perspective of the oligarchs is that it will keep ordinary citizens scared to DEATH of doing something wrong. If you start getting a ticket mailed to you every time you cross a street somewhere other than the designated crosswalk, and start getting tickets every time you creep up over 30 MPH in town, or 55 in the country, or get fined for other petty crimes that everybody commits every single day, you'll start to lock yourself down just out of habit. It may not even be a pal
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Perhaps a sub-orbital excursion that gets marooned in space. Cousin Elon can send a cab to pick him up.
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Perhaps a sub-orbital excursion that gets marooned in space. Cousin Elon can send a cab to pick him up.
Maybe he can hitch a ride on that Moon circling mission he's been babbling about for years. They can leave him on the far side before heading home. And he can finally claim an entire world as his own. For a few seconds anyway.
You can't engineer your way out of politics (Score:4, Insightful)
You can't just build a program and go "ah ha! I have *fooled* the politicians and the cops! they can't disable the feed!!"
If a politician passes a law saying the cops can disable feeds selectively, Oracle will have to modify their tech to allow it.
That police can't delete (Score:2)
Government: I have altered the deal, pray I don't alter it further.
No beating a confession out of a suspect, or 'soft' torture. Also, no secret meetings with informants and whistle-blowers.
Government and the wealthy suffer more from whistle-blowers than they gain, so losing that is good. Losing a quick confession from the suspect is bad, so a record of the truth that police can't delete, will be avoided
Colossus: The Forbin Project... (Score:4, Informative)
We can coexist, but only on my terms. You will say you lose your freedom, freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride. To be dominated by me is not as bad for human pride as to be dominated by others of your species..... So that you will learn by experience that I do not tolerate interference, I will now detonate the nuclear warheads.
If you're going to take a shot at someone (Score:1)
Start with these psychotic douchebags.
Let's apply it to Ellison's house (Score:3)
I'm sure there are lots of amusing antics there.
Databases are no longer "hot"... (Score:2)
It's true, SQL databases are no longer sexy. NoSQL is all the rage, and yes, AI is a very frothy bubble right now.
But...word processors and spreadsheets are also no longer sexy. But everybody uses them and most pay subscription fees for them. They for the bedrock of business communication. SQL databases may now be boring, but they still do their core job better than any other tool out there.
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psst, Oracle may have figured that out [oracle.com]
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Yeah Microsoft also offers a NoSQL database. https://azure.microsoft.com/en... [microsoft.com]
And theirs is *AI ready*! I mean, what could be better than that!
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Microsoft has SQL server (Score:1)
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cue Larry becoming a staunch anti-monopolist when he realizes he can't get his sales guys to land a contract with Microsoft execs just by taking them to dinner and then threatening to sue if they don't buy more.
Ellison will be on his best behavior, because... (Score:2)
Nah, just kidding.
Safra Catz wanted to build Trump's Muslim registry (Score:2)
This is a fun chestnut to reflect on from those times: (quote taken from first line of above-linked article)
Holy crap they sure changed their tune! (Score:2)
AI sure is hot (Score:2)
ABSOLUTELY NOT (Score:2)
Where do I get a private island? (Score:2)
This is just lovely coming from someone who owns a private island and won't be under surveillance. For mere mortals, it suggests living off-grid somewhere in BFE. The trouble with that approach is that BFE is increasingly getting walled off to humans in the name of saving the planet.