Oracle Faces Java Customer Revolt After 'Predatory' Pricing Changes (theregister.com) 106
Nearly 90% of Oracle Java customers are looking to abandon the software maker's products following controversial licensing changes made in 2023, according to research firm Dimensional Research.
The exodus reflects growing frustration with Oracle's shift to per-employee pricing for its Java platform, which critics called "predatory" and could increase costs up to five times for the same software, Gartner found. The dissatisfaction runs deepest in Europe, where 92% of French and 95% of German users want to switch to alternative providers like Bellsoft Liberica, IBM Semeru, or Azul Platform Core.
The exodus reflects growing frustration with Oracle's shift to per-employee pricing for its Java platform, which critics called "predatory" and could increase costs up to five times for the same software, Gartner found. The dissatisfaction runs deepest in Europe, where 92% of French and 95% of German users want to switch to alternative providers like Bellsoft Liberica, IBM Semeru, or Azul Platform Core.
There is a solution (Score:5, Interesting)
Companies could create a wholly-owned subsidiary for employees who program with Oracle Java.
or ... not use Oracle Java.
Re:There is a solution (Score:4, Informative)
...not use Oracle Java.
Yep, use OpenJDK. This is a no-brainer, and every Java user should have done this years ago. That some companies still use Oracle Java is their own failing.
Re:There is a solution (Score:4, Insightful)
Yep, use OpenJDK. This is a no-brainer, and every Java user should have done this years ago.
Well, not really. Yes, OpenJDK is free-of-charge, and that sounds like a great option to you and I. But there are many companies that simply cannot pay nothing for software, ironically for fiduciary reasons. Somebody has to provide a "throat to choke," i.e. support. If using some software ends up damaging your company in some way, you need to have somebody you can sue to try to recoup those damages.
Re: There is a solution (Score:3)
If those companies need a throat to choke, then they'll just have to pay the price the owner of that throat wants to charge for that service. Standard BSDM practice.
Re: There is a solution (Score:1)
Re:There is a solution (Score:5, Interesting)
That's so American! We gotta have somebody to sue! I remember companies being reluctant to use open-source software because reasons like these. Which is why they ended up stuck with Oracle or worse.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, "worse" is relative. But how do you think Red Hat became a $3bn/year company?
Every company, whether public or private, has investors. Those investors expect to get return on their investment, not to lose it.
No buy list (Score:2)
Fully expect companies to put Oracle on a no buy list and slowly retire all of the Oracle based software in the company.
It will take a while, Oracle Db, Oracle financials, ... though it's going to be like getting off the mainframe for companies.
Re: (Score:2)
Lots of companies provide OpenJDK distros that they provide support for. If you are one AWS, for example, there is Corretto.
Re: (Score:2)
there are many companies that simply cannot pay nothing for software
Fuck them. They are fossils from a bygone era and deserve to go extinct.
Re: (Score:2)
A lot of companies use OpenJDK with Redhat/IBM support. It's included with RHEL or OpenShift.
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Somebody has to provide a "throat to choke," i.e. support.
There are numerous options for paid support for OpenJDK at a fraction of the predatory pricing that Oracle charges. Many enterprise customers will get support for Corretto, Amazon's flavor of OpenJDK, as part of their enterprise buy of AWS or other Amazon services. There's no need to get Java support from Oracle.
Re: (Score:2)
Believe me, I am in no way defending Oracle. "We gotta get the fuck out from under Oracle" has been a theme long before this.
Re:There is a solution (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, your best bet is probably block Oracle's version of the JRE, and treat it like malware. Use OpenJDK instead.
could create a wholly-owned subsidiary for employees who program with Oracle Java.
It doesn't solve the problem, because it's actually Java SE.. just the java runtime for end users requires a Java SE subscription now for any commercial usage whatsoever.
And the licensing terms are viral. If a single end user has installed the "Free" Java SE on a desktop or server owned by the company Or installed it on a personal device for use that benefits your company, then the requirement applies to the whole company who benefits from the use of Java SE.
A license has to be held by the company who owns the equipment Java is installed as well as the company who employees anyone who uses the Java runtime. Thus includes vendors: If your company has contracted another company And that other company uses software based on Java, then you are on the hook for Subscriptions for the total employee population of Not just your own company, but each company that you have contracted for software / services.
Re: There is a solution (Score:2)
Based on employees, but if there are only consultants?
Re: (Score:2)
Per Oracle: Contracting organizations (and all their employees or contractors), Contractors, consultants who support your internal business operations must be included in the total employee count used to calculate your Java SE license cost.
In short.. they thought of this. In theory, if you hire "ADT" to provide security monitoring for one of your offices, and an employee at ADT uses Java in support of your business - then you are required to add all the Employees of ADT involved in supporting your opera
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If your company has contracted another company And that other company uses software based on Java, then you are on the hook for Subscriptions for the total employee population of Not just your own company, but each company that you have contracted for software / services.
Sounds like you're making things up. You can't charge someone for something they're not doing.
Without a contract with Oracle, the only thing they can use to charge you a fee, is the threat of copyright infringement, for which youi're not violating. They'd need to go after the company you contracted. The one with the copies of the software and the contract with Oracle.
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Without a contract with Oracle, the only thing they can use to charge you a fee, is the threat of copyright infringement, for which you're not violating.
Yes you can. The legal concept is agency liability. As a principal you are generally liable for actions taken by any agent on your behalf. If you hire a consultant or independent contractor, then that contractor or consultant is acting as an agent of you when performing under your agreement. For example: If you hire a tree trimmer, and the company
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I don't see how a breach of contract between two companies can have the liabiltiy transferred to another unrelated company.
You're arguing that if I hire a cleaner for my office, and they use Oracle Java, Oracle can sue me because I'm not paying them licensing fees.
Re: (Score:2)
if I hire a cleaner for my office, and they use Oracle Java, Oracle can sue me because I'm not paying them licensing fees.
If you already have an agreement with Oracle, then yes it's possible; your existing agreement with Oracle would subject you to duties if the cleaner counts as "supporting your internal business operation".
If you don't have an agreement with Oracle, then in theory it is possible under the right circumstances. Depends on how Java is being used, and if it is within the proper course of
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Their payroll systems may run on an Oracle JVM, or the system they use to log cleaning jobs, that I interact with. Maybe they come in and clean some critical equipment.
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> treat it like malware
That is really smart.
I once added the signature for a vulnerable version of libz to a scanner and found some 'hidden' libraries.
The commercial vendors should offer this feature.
Re: (Score:2)
Why would anyone use Oracle Java instead of using OpenJDK or one of its forks?
Pare for the course (Score:5, Insightful)
Oracle gonna Oracle.
Anyone who didn't start preparing to abandon ship after they acquired Java... you had years. That's on you.
Re:Pare for the course (Score:5, Interesting)
It's long been rumored Oracle has more lawyers than engineers. Whether true or not, Oracle repeatedly acts like it.
Re: (Score:2)
They absolutely have more sales people than engineers.
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Rumor is the sales people bring PHB's wine and ho's, not necessarily in that order.
ORACLE: "Lawfirm with a software side business" (Score:3)
It's long been rumored Oracle has more lawyers than engineers. Whether true or not, Oracle repeatedly acts like it.
I've seen comments posted somewhere on HN that said something like "ORACLE is the largest law firm in Silicon Valley, that happens to have a software business as a side-hustle".
Re: (Score:2)
The same joke has been made about IBM. They're a legal company that happens to sell computers.
Why pay for Oracle Java when there's OpenJDK ? (Score:5, Interesting)
I candidly ask: what are the benefits of paying for Oracle Java when there's OpenJDK, as available effortlessly in tons of Linux distros?
I'm genuinely interested by actual use cases.
Re:Why pay for Oracle Java when there's OpenJDK ? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's the enterprise libraries, Java EE, more than the JVM. Various strains of OpenJDK are more than capable of running most Java software... except that the enterprise stuff that that organizations like the big banks have been moving all their old legacy COBOL code over to for the last quarter century. Oracle doesn't give a good goddamned about small software shops writing Java software, and who can distribute it with then open versions, at least not yet, though they could simply stop flowing new versions over to OpenJDK and murder those too. But this is a raid on the enterprise.
And it's yet another sordid chapter in the long tale of grabbing the loss leaders that folks like Oracle and Microsoft rain down like mana from heaven, only to find out they just swallowed poison that only the vendor has the antidote for. The whole open source movement came into existence as a mean of breaking that model of engineered obsolescence and licensing extortion rackets, and yet CIOs still keep lining up to put their companies in harm's way.
Oracle should not have been allowed (Score:4, Insightful)
And if that means that there was nothing left of Sun microsystems so be it.
Oracle consistently abuses their dominant market position and we keep letting them do it. Folks need to start voting for politicians that focus on antitrust law enforcement or bad shit like this is going to keep happening and it's going to flow down to higher costs for everything you buy.
If it's a business I have to pay the Oracle tax to be functional because they own practically all the software then I've got to pass those costs downstream to the consumer at some point. I can eat some of those to compete but then again I'm probably trying to figure out how I can avoid competing too.
One of the core parts of enshitification is a lack of competition so the companies can get away with it in the first place.
Of course we are going to have zero antitrust law enforcement for the next 4 years. Hell negative. Again elections have consequences and we made our choice. Well some of us did. Based on current research about 7 million Americans didn't get a chance to make a choice thanks to voter suppression. But 77 million did and they should have known better.
Mark my words we are all going to miss the former head of the FTC over the next 4 years.
Microsoft could pull SAME trick (Score:3)
If MS's Nadella went from a semi-jerk to full on Larry Ellison Mode, MS customers would probably be in a similar boat. While Dot-Net is technically open-source, MS controls more dependencies than most realize. Fully purging MS from a typical stack would not be trivial.
Re: Oracle should not have been allowed (Score:1, Troll)
""mark my works" rofl you fucking retard"
Misspelled the quoted text but put it in quotes anyway
Used a hard R
Coward
It's a little bitch trifecta
He's mod baiting (Score:2)
He's been following me around saying nonsense for about 18 months now. It's kind of hilarious actually. It might just be a bot at this point. I'm pretty sure Elon Musk still pays for slashdot to be trolled by bots.
People forget that this used to be one of the internet's premier technical websites. There was a time when slashdotting was a verb. That
Re: He's mod baiting (Score:2)
I knew how it worked before you got here. I'm helping draw fire.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you and him in some kind of commando unit or something?
Re: He's mod baiting (Score:2)
Nope. It's just called solidarity. I don't agree with everything he says by any means (and you will find plenty of posts where I go ahead and say so about specific things) but he gets attacked for saying things that I think are necessary to express. You too can lend your aid to other users if you feel similarly.
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Why pay for Oracle Java when there's OpenJDK ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Oracle's version of Java EE was transferred to the Eclipse Foundation in 2017 [wikipedia.org] so I don't think that's the reason.
I suspect that even well over 30 years after GNU/Linux came out, most large corporations remain suspicious of "free" and continue to want contracted support for products they could otherwise get for nothing. That explains a lot of other decisions that make little sense on a cost-benefit basis such as the continued lack of interest in alternatives to Windows or Office.
Re: Why pay for Oracle Java when there's OpenJDK ? (Score:2)
AFAIK, free software and contracted support are not mutually incompatible.
Re: (Score:3)
It's the enterprise libraries, Java EE, more than the JVM.
Ordinarily I would agree, except TFA says this kerfuffle is about a change to Java SE licensing, not Java EE.
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It's the enterprise libraries, Java EE, more than the JVM. Various strains of OpenJDK are more than capable of running most Java software... except that the enterprise stuff that that organizations like the big banks have been moving all their old legacy COBOL code over to for the last quarter century
I don't think that is true. Stewardship of the Java EE spec was transferred to the java community process some years ago and renamed to Jakarta EE to free it of trademark encumbrances. This itself caused some headaches at the time as all of the javax.* JEE interface packages had to be renamed to jakarta.*.
Sun's reference implementation of the J2EE spec called Glassfish server was open sourced as well and is now under the stewardship of the Eclipse Foundation [github.io]. There are many other free and open as well as
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If you built your software on Weblogic, or are stuck with legacy software using the javax packages...
The shift to jakarta is painful in large code bases. With more than a trivial number of dependencies, it soon becomes a headache.
I've recently been on a project where, due to using a proprietary bit of software, we couldn't upgrade Spring, because it needs the new jakarta persistence packages and the proprietary software needs javax.persistence.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh I'm well aware. I just finished migrating a substantial project from Spring Boot 2 -> 3 and Java 8 -> 17. But the parent poster was saying the OpenJDK is incapable of running JEE, and that hasn't been true for some time (or ever maybe, I'm late to the OpenJDK party as I was working for some very conservative organizations until a few years ago).
I also remember the old JDBC API change going from 1.2 -> 1.4. I had to write a bunch of custom driver shims to keep old code limping along for a whil
Re: (Score:2)
And what do these organisations run their JVM on? Redhat? OpenJDK is included with RHEL.
Re:Why pay for Oracle Java when there's OpenJDK ? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: Why pay for Oracle Java when there's OpenJDK ? (Score:5, Interesting)
My understanding is that there are slight optimizations in the Oracle version that are not open sourced and as such it might perform a little better, according to the Oracle marketing team.
My view is that if you really care about performance, then you would not use Java but a faster language. I am not a Java programmer but i have built and released Java code for a good chunk of my career and I still work with Java based products: Jenkins, sonar, Minecraft (run a server for my son), ...
An other reason is that some larger companies require enterprise support for anything they use as a matter of policy; for Java the first choice are the owners of the brand, but there is a choice of alternative vendors as others have mentioned.
When I started working at Netflix in 2009, the legacy systems were in a data center running Java apps on Power cpus from IBM, and we used the Java from IBM since it had the better support for the Power CPUs.
For the migration to AWS, with microservices, we switched to OpenJDK IIRC.
Oracle is jacking up the prices because they can, just like Broadcom with VMWare. But it is much harder to convert your infrastructure away from VMWare. It is usually trivial to switch your Java JDK and JRE to OpenJDK. I've done it multiple times.
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What's funny is Oracle and OpenJDK builds are the same since JDK 11. I don't think you could find a difference between any of them at this point. Amazon's Corretto is the same thing. Oracle and its advocates always claimed some benefit to using Oracle software. The benefit for the advocates was job security, but as a developer on-call I was skeptical of the benefits of Oracle when the cause of so many production outages was .... Oracle sessions creating blocking bottlenecks. Partly this was just how systems
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The Oracle marketing team lied to you.
Re:Why pay for Oracle Java when there's OpenJDK ? (Score:5, Interesting)
for the same reason people went with ms and sql server before: commisions, bribes, plausible deniability (we paid top dogs in the industry so no one can blame us), inertia (the competition goes with them, so will we). there has never been a hard technical requirement for it, the java ecosystem has always had tools and platforms more than enough for any enterprise need, same could be said for the database world. although that might have changed slightly in late years but as a consequence of business massively indulging in oracle's privatization of java, not because of that. getting rid of that leech shouldn't really be very complicated and would reverse that trend.
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I think this is only if you want commercial support. It's all a bit confusing to me and things could change at any time (and have) but as of Java 21 [oracle.com]:
JDK 21 binaries are free to use in production and free to redistribute, at no cost, under the Oracle No-Fee Terms and Conditions [java.com] (NFTC).
But yeah, for most people there's no difference so like you said, might as well use OpenJDK.
Re: (Score:3)
You are assuming that it is Java21 that people are using.
Many Java SE applications require Java 8. OR something older than JDK 21, anyways.
The Oracle NFTC license Has an expiration date. Once Java 21 has been superceded by two new LTS releases; Your no-fee terms license to continue using Java 21 would expire.
Reason: Support (Score:2)
I candidly ask: what are the benefits of paying for Oracle Java when there's OpenJDK, as available effortlessly in tons of Linux distros? I'm genuinely interested by actual use cases.
The only reason I know of is commercial support. For most?...no reason. For huge installations, the support may matter. If you're running an app across 50 instances, a 1% performance difference by tweaking a startup flag could save you millions of dollars...or a more efficient garbage collector can mean the difference between needing 50 instances and 45. Or...you may be doing something really unconventional on the bleeding edge of the platform...like deploying on odd specialized hardware, where you may
Re: (Score:2)
I candidly ask: what are the benefits of paying for Oracle Java when there's OpenJDK
If your app needs Java 6,7, or 8, for compatibility reasons: For example: You have an old IBM, Cisco, HP iLO, Dell server hardware management controller that will never have updates released for it - Then there is no OpenJDK version for you. Can't manage the equipment using newer versions of Java, and OpenJDK will likely never have a version of it released that can run your Java6-only, Java7-only, or Java8-only softw
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There is definitely an open jdk 8 version.
6 and 7 I do not know.
Java 8 is basically the lowest standard people/companies are using.
So I am not concerned about 5, 6, 7.
Re: (Score:2)
Possibly it's the lowest companies are using en mass. But older versions are definitely required for various cases.
For example; the Cisco 15454 SONET [cisco.com] gear's latest version require JAVA 5 to launch the CTC which is required to manage anything. No upgrade path exists.
For example: Dell iDRAC6 has "Java 7 or lower recommended". Java 7 is the latest major version of Java you can use.
Once again iDRAC6 is not upgradable directly; and the only upgrade path would be chunking hardware.
I can keep going d
There's been plenty of warning and time to move (Score:5, Insightful)
to OpenJDK.
We did so in 2019 when Oracle first started rattling the tin. It's a pretty easy transition now and with packaging like AWS Coretto, something everyone should be considering.
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah, I'm kind of shocked that businesses are still "looking" to migrate at this point. With alternatives like OpenJDK and Amazon Corretto being a simple drop in replacement, I figured that most business would have finished their migration 2 years ago like mine did.
Re: supply decreases, price increases and quantity (Score:2)
I guess in this economics school they don't teach ethics.
Just had a meeting with Oracle (Score:5, Interesting)
The organization I work for just met with Oracle about a week ago on this. Based on their pricing, it would cost us about $2.5 million per year since the license count is based on the total number of people in your organization, not just those who use it.
I don't know the outcome of the meeting. Most likely Oracle still got money.
Old joke, different day ... (Score:5, Funny)
Oracle Faces Java Customer Revolt ...
Oracle Sales: Mr. Ellison! Our Java customers are revolting!
Larry Ellison: They certainly are.
(Let's charge them extra for that.)
Title fails to capture the reality of the situatio (Score:3)
You mean... The serfs, locked into their pace of toil, are mewling about the harsh treatment of their fiefdom lords.
Oracle knows their cries. They just don't care. They buy up tech with users that are locked into it and are rich enough to pay, but not rich enough to go elsewhere. It's rent-seeking. Usury. An anti-social leech upon society providing zero benefit while they suck as much wealth as possible out of the host long enough so they can move onto destroying the next good thing.
Bet they're mad at IBM too (Score:1)
Btw as a C# and VB.NET programmer, I've hated Java and their loosely typed variable bullshit since before it was cool. I hate their fake, wannabe script kiddie programmers more.
Re: (Score:2)
Headline Several Years From Now: (Score:2)
Welcome back to the Oracle family!
PSA: Move to openjdk, don't abandon Java (Score:5, Insightful)
1. It's well supported and known and has a great ecosystem.
2. It performs better than all of its competitors (unless you count rust/C)...performs MUCH better than Go, Python, and node.js
3. It has the least maintenance costs of all of its competitors. That whole "write once, run anywhere" from the 90s is an underrated feature. It was intended so that code can run on Windows and Solaris identically...which was obviously very novel in 1995. However, the underrated feature is that if you write something in 1995...the compiled binary will work PERFECTLY in 2025, 2040, etc. The maintenance cost is also lowered because so many people know it and there's so much talent and documentation in that ecosystem....and it has a very standardized culture of best practices, which makes it very uniform and drastically lowers cost. I can look at nearly any Java project and immediately understand it....because they all tend to look alike. I don't have to guess where tests are, or what goes in what package...that conformity makes it very easy to hand things off to new teams or read work done by someone you've never met
You never have to rebuild code if you don't want to in Java. In fact, due to JIT optimizations, a jar compiled in 1995 will likely run faster today in a modern JRE.
However, this is very important...you set it and forget it.
Your Java WAR/SpringBootJAR...you can build it today and never touch it again, except for security updates in the it's libraries.
You can switch OS
You can switch cloud providers.
You can keep your OS and cloud provider and just never touch your Java code....keep patching the OS and switching instances and everything will work perfectly with no rebuild required...especially for jars without a lot of 3rd party dependencies.
Python? Well...you can write platform-independent code, but so many programs I've used called out to the local OS and would break after the OS updates...or work in RHEL, but fail in Ubuntu....that's unheard of in Java. You also lose a compiler (good luck maintaining a 10 year old codebase) and get HORRIBLE performance.
Go? Well...that's a whole shit show...you'll need to recompile frequently and for every platform and you sure as shit better hope there's no breaking lib difference between your cloud provider's OS and your build env. It's a lot of drama for a messy and gross language which once you complete all the work....the POS is almost 2x as slow as Java? WTF is the point of such a shitty language/platform? Just say no...why bother with the pain of the Go language only to have it run MUCH SLOWER than an easy language like Java? If you want small native binaries, use rust or C.
The beauty of Java is long-term. You get the thing shipped and it just runs. It's easy to patch libs, if needed. My organization has 25-year-old utility libs we import...have never been rebuilt...they were originally written in Windows and deployed on Solaris..back when Linux was "too new"...we import them in lots of projects. They started with Solars in-building back when I was in school...moved to Linux in a data-center....now they've switched to 4 different clouds over the decades...never been rebuilt....they just work. Even for our complex projects...if there are no 3rd party updates, they can go a decade without being rebuilt.
Java is a great platform that makes a lot of business sense...and as a nice bonus, it's quite fast and keeps improving with each release (and if you think it's slow...just trying running an app in Go or Python...you
Re: (Score:2)
> if you write something in 1995...the compiled binary will work PERFECTLY in 2025, 2040, etc.
I seen that NOT WORK first hand several times for various reasons. I remember Java 5 to 6 being problematic for us at the time. The other thing is that if you deal with SSL, your binaries from 95 will not be able to communicate since it won't be able to communicate with modern SSL.
Sure some 'simple' applications compiled in 1995 might still run, but for more complex things that actually need to be correct with t
It'll work EXACTLY like it did before, though. (Score:2)
> if you write something in 1995...the compiled binary will work PERFECTLY in 2025, 2040, etc.
I seen that NOT WORK first hand several times for various reasons. I remember Java 5 to 6 being problematic for us at the time. The other thing is that if you deal with SSL, your binaries from 95 will not be able to communicate since it won't be able to communicate with modern SSL.
Sure some 'simple' applications compiled in 1995 might still run, but for more complex things that actually need to be correct with times and timezones and need to communicate securely over the internet ... that's going to be harder to run and actually work properly.
Your jar from 1995, compiled on Windows 3.1 will do EXACTLY what it did in 1995 in 2025 on Linux/Mac...exactly as it did it in 1995, only probably faster...however, if you're relying on outdated SSL...well...yeah, that obviously won't work if your OS forbids it. The Java platform guarantees consistency...not that you didn't make any mistakes or your strategy will be valid in the future. Whatever you're saying about Java 7 is basically impossible. I remember there was a change in reflection method order t
Java is that awesome ... (Score:5, Funny)
... programming language that combines the excellent readability of C with the blazing speed of Smalltalk.
Re: (Score:2)
Bigger business systems generally need a compiled language, and there are only 2 viable choices: Java or C#. It would be nice if there were more competitors to counter fat cat arrogance.
(C++ is more a systems language, not an app language.)
Re: (Score:2)
What they need and desire most is the agility to host many small service here, there, anywhere
Java isnt even close to the king of that anymore
All java has left is legacy. Its not moving forward. The future is dwindling.
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> What they need and desire most is the agility to host many small service here, there, anywhere
Services? May I request an example?
Java is faster than nearly everyone (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
C, Java and Smalltalk have more or less the same speed after jit compiling.
You know, down to the bottom it is all: turtles. Oops ... Elephants.
Oh noes! Wrong again: assembly aka machine code FACEPALM.
People still use oracle? (Score:3)
After all the nonsense over the years, why the hell would ANYONE still be using Oracle?
I have no sympathy for these people.
Re: (Score:2)
After all the nonsense over the years, why the hell would ANYONE still be using Oracle?
One is because some application came with it or told you to install it, or one of your users went to Java.com and put it on their machine.
Or because you are running hardware that requires a Java-based application to manage it? There's no effort from the Open source JDK projects to support ancient versions. If you are running a large carrier; you can't just turn off your old HP servers, Smart power outlets/PDUs,
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It appears that is there is enough companies pissed off, they could have create a open source consortium to finance OpenSDK development, no?
And what hardware dependency on Java? It's software, it can be written in anything, there is no technical problem. Just effort --> $$$.
because everything else sucks more? (Score:2)
After all the nonsense over the years, why the hell would ANYONE still be using Oracle?
I have no sympathy for these people.
Java hasn't been "cool" for 20 years now, but is still the dominant language...why?...because every other platform sucks more. 25 years ago, it was C# that was going to make it obsolete. I have nothing against C#, but most aren't interested in wedding themselves to MS. 20 years ago, Ruby was supposed to take over, but no one uses it now. Then node.js...then people actually started using node.js and saw it was a total shitshow after your app has been in production for 5-10 years....now Python is rising..
Where have you been? (Score:2)
I'm old enough to remember Oracle having predatory pricing long ago, not just now.
Customers being hit with Oracle audits and price increases when customers reduced their Oracle licensing footprint.
Suing Google for "copying" less than 12000 lines of Java API interface code without a license.
Charging enterprise customers for using Java which was GPL'd by Sun. This has led many enterprises not to consider Java even though OpenJDK, or Amazon Coretto are robust, stable, supportable and performant.
Now you're comp
...when you picked them up. (Score:2)
"But why have you done this?" cried the Frog. "Now we shall both surely drown!"
"Lol," said the Scorpion. "LMFAO."
2023? (Score:2)
We switched from the JRE to OpenJDK when Oracle changed the licensing April 2019 that would have forced us to pay a subscription (or continue with an out-of-date security risk). Why is the story talking about 2023? Surely there wasn't anybody left using Oracle's proprietary version by then?
Want to leave will leave (Score:2)
So 90% of customers say they "want" to leave. But will they?
Re: (Score:2)
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It's the "pretty" interchangeable part that causes issues. There's a different build process, new deployment images will need to be produced, and any code bugs introduced by the differing framework will have to be fixed. The unit test runner probably will have to be updated too. So yeah, if you're a solo developer, probably no big deal. But if you're a big shop with lots of automation, it's not a small task.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
This sentiment understates the complexity of many infrastructure implementations, especially in larger shops that are fully using infrastructure-as-code automations.
qq (Score:1)
guys we're the only company that hasn't sodomized our user base in a while and the other companies are laughing at us
Re: (Score:1)
it's just time to open source everything. Most especially, government
Good (Score:2)
We did this last year. (Score:2)
When we did a performance comparison, with our workloads Temurin was a tiny bit slower, but barely noticeable. (Our workloads are fairly typical finance stuff.)
We moved off years ago (Score:2)
We moved off when they came for money a number of years ago now. OpenJDK has worked just fine.
Same for Database - they want you to pay for every processor in your VPC - even if Oracle will only ever use a fraction of that.
Buh Bye.
Its an acronym (Score:2)
open market economy (Score:2)
Why the complains? It's capitalism at its best, no?
Let the open market sort it out.
Makes sense (Score:2)
In 2023 students told me "Java is dead" because of these changes. While there are alternate sources, it is probably time to stop teaching it and to stop using it for new projects.
Java + Windows RDP disconnect causes Java Headless (Score:2)
Issues like this don't help. A *breaking* change introduced in a minor dot release?
Java + Windows RDP disconnect causes Java Headless Exception
> Starting with Java 17.0.12 and 21.0.4 Java fails with a Headless exception when running a full GUI app via RDP and the RDP session is disconnected. The remote desktop is running and can be reconnected with. All non-Java apps are still running and updating their UI's just fine. It is only Java GUI apps that are crashing.
> If the Java program attempts to do GUI
Most don't use Java for GUIs (Score:2)
Issues like this don't help. A *breaking* change introduced in a minor dot release?
Java + Windows RDP disconnect causes Java Headless Exception
> Starting with Java 17.0.12 and 21.0.4 Java fails with a Headless exception when running a full GUI app via RDP and the RDP session is disconnected. The remote desktop is running and can be reconnected with. All non-Java apps are still running and updating their UI's just fine. It is only Java GUI apps that are crashing.
> If the Java program attempts to do GUI operations such as create a modal progress bar while the RDP session is disconnected, a Headless exception is thrown, even though the environment is not headless, just disconnected. ...
First of all, I am not sure I expect Java to support RDP. Seems like MS should be publishing a lib for that....but secondly, most use Java for server side business logic. Complaining that Java's GUI apps suck is like complaining that C makes for shitty ORM transaction processing applications...it's not their common use case. It's a fair point...but akin to complaining about the towing performance of your Tesla model 3.
Wasn't that the point? (Score:2)