Tech Leaders Launch Campaign To Make CS and AI a Graduation Requirement (csforall.org) 125
"Our future won't be handed to us," says the young narrator in a new ad from the nonprofit Code.org. "We will build it."
"But how can we when the education we need is still just an elective?" says another young voice...
The ad goes on to tout the power "to create with computer science and AI — the skills transforming every industry..." and ends by saying "This isn't radical. It's what education is supposed to do. Make computer science and AI a graduation requirement."
There's also a hard-hitting new web site, which urges people to sign a letter of support (already signed by executives from top tech companies including Microsoft, Dropbox, AMD, Meta, Blue Origin, and Palantir — and by Steve Ballmer, who is listed as the chairman of the L.A. Clippers basketball team).
Long-time Slashdot reader theodp says the letter ran in the New York Times, while this campaign will officially kick off Monday... Code.org teased the new Unlock8 campaign last month on social media as it celebrated a new Executive Order that makes K–12 AI literacy a U.S. priority, which it called a big win for CS & AI education, adding, "We've been building to this moment."
The move to make CS and AI a graduation requirement is a marked reversal of Code.org's early days, when it offered Congressional testimony on behalf of itself and tech-led Computing in the Core reassuring lawmakers that: "Making computer science courses 'count' would not require schools to offer computer science or students to study it; it would simply allow existing computer science courses to satisfy a requirement that already exists."
"But how can we when the education we need is still just an elective?" says another young voice...
The ad goes on to tout the power "to create with computer science and AI — the skills transforming every industry..." and ends by saying "This isn't radical. It's what education is supposed to do. Make computer science and AI a graduation requirement."
There's also a hard-hitting new web site, which urges people to sign a letter of support (already signed by executives from top tech companies including Microsoft, Dropbox, AMD, Meta, Blue Origin, and Palantir — and by Steve Ballmer, who is listed as the chairman of the L.A. Clippers basketball team).
Long-time Slashdot reader theodp says the letter ran in the New York Times, while this campaign will officially kick off Monday... Code.org teased the new Unlock8 campaign last month on social media as it celebrated a new Executive Order that makes K–12 AI literacy a U.S. priority, which it called a big win for CS & AI education, adding, "We've been building to this moment."
The move to make CS and AI a graduation requirement is a marked reversal of Code.org's early days, when it offered Congressional testimony on behalf of itself and tech-led Computing in the Core reassuring lawmakers that: "Making computer science courses 'count' would not require schools to offer computer science or students to study it; it would simply allow existing computer science courses to satisfy a requirement that already exists."
Our future is being taken from us (Score:5, Insightful)
Civics (Score:2, Funny)
Does Honda have a factory in the US?
Teach reading comprehension and logic first (Score:1)
Instead the schools keep teaching
- Emotional based "reasoning" ...
- Feeling strongly about something means you don't have to verify it's truthfulness
- Slogans are as good as facts
- An inability to hear or even consider someone having a different opinion to an extent that that person is a moron, idiot, (totalitarian government member), has a X defective body part,
- Constructing a whole vocabulary of new terms over the last 50 years to denigrate, shame, insult, guilt, and demonize entire groups of people
- Usi
Civics is useless (Score:4, Informative)
I was not taught about gerrymandering, voter suppression, the reason our Senate exists, why we have winner take off first past the post voting, what the southern strategy is, why Richard Nixon started the drug war,
I think you get the idea.
Any idiot can pick up enough civics to participate in politics with a 30-second Google search.
What we need to be teaching kids is how the ruling elite manipulate them and our political system and how our political system was built from the ground up to protect wealthy landowners.
Basically parents need to have an equivalent of the black person's "the talk" about politics with their kids. I did and my kid rolled their eyes at me but at least I can say they know just how fucked up everything in this world really is.
Of course this requires parents to know that themselves. And there's so many people who just blindly believe in our political system without having the slightest understanding of it.
Re: (Score:2)
It's also not consistent.
Every field of science has reproducible outcomes. Except AI. Leaning about things that do not change and are not even in question, is what school should be for.
When it comes to History, it's written in blood and tears, we should learn about it, but we do not need to care about it. But when it comes to American history, there is this entire extra level of denialism which keeps the south pro-slavery, even though slavery is abolished. It's like the right wing morons like living in a "s
Oh no history is very well known & very consis (Score:2)
One of the things is members of the ruling class from back in the day weren't shy about how horrible they were. They didn't need to be because the filthy masses they were exploiting couldn't read so they could pretty much write whatever the fuck they want and not have to worry about it getting out in the open.
Hell honestly that kind of shit was going on right up until the '80s. Ronald Reagan's people talked about the ne
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Slavery is not the source of the problem It was the 100 year campaign of terror against African Americans that followed. There is a reason that South Carolina today is majority white even though they were the minority at the start of the civil war. Our history does not admit that the great migration of african americans to the north was caused by them fleeing terror as much as they were seeking opportunity.
Nor does it admit the rest of the country's complicity in perpetuating that terror. The solid south w
We vote for talk, not record of accomplishments (Score:2)
Because we don't actually teach the nasty parts about it. I was not taught about gerrymandering, voter suppression, ...
Odd, I was taught about all that and more. Slavery, civil war, reconstruction, Jim Crowe, Blacks having fought for this country since pre-reovlultion days ... and much more of our history. This in a blue collar public school.
... the reason our Senate exists, why we have winner take off first past the post voting, what the southern strategy is, why Richard Nixon started the drug war, ...
Now I suspect you are referring not to history but 1960s/70s political radicalism. Very distorted politicized views of history.
Any idiot can pick up enough civics to participate in politics with a 30-second Google search.
No, you confuse understanding civics with a political indoctrination. Political indoctrination can be fast, Actual history and political theory is a far slower
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Because we don't actually teach the nasty parts about it. I was not taught about gerrymandering, voter suppression, ...
Odd, I was taught about all that and more. Slavery, civil war, reconstruction, Jim Crowe, Blacks having fought for this country since pre-reovlultion days ... and much more of our history. This in a blue collar public school.
What he is trying to say is he wants students to be taught to hate America, and that of all the countries on earth, we are criminals, and the worst place on earth.
He hates the place, and believes that everyone should.
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Because we don't actually teach the nasty parts about it. I was not taught about gerrymandering, voter suppression, ...
Odd, I was taught about all that and more. Slavery, civil war, reconstruction, Jim Crowe, Blacks having fought for this country since pre-reovlultion days ... and much more of our history. This in a blue collar public school.
... the reason our Senate exists, why we have winner take off first past the post voting, what the southern strategy is, why Richard Nixon started the drug war, ...
Now I suspect you are referring not to history but 1960s/70s political radicalism. Very distorted politicized views of history.
Any idiot can pick up enough civics to participate in politics with a 30-second Google search.
No, you confuse understanding civics with a political indoctrination. Political indoctrination can be fast, Actual history and political theory is a far slower process. Hence it having its own class rather than a speech at a rally, or a google search.
What we need to be teaching kids is how the ruling elite manipulate them and our political system and how our political system was built from the ground up to protect wealthy landowners.
We need to teach kids to pay attention to actions, not to talk. The elite are in control only because we vote based on talk. On promises. Not a track record of actual accomplishments. And to be clear, accomplishments are not job titles or offices held, programs supported, etc. They are programs that delivered on their goals, things that got built, things that got fixed, etc. As long as you vote for whoever has the most heart tugging speech you will be playing the elite man's game.
I too was taught both the good parts and the not so good parts. And like you, I was in a conservative town, and this was quite a few years ago.
Civics is basically the rights and obligations of citizens, and not the endless self flagellation some might demand. While there can be historical actions noted for context and used to illustrate when things go astray, those are the basics.
And obviously there is a political element involved because different countries have different rights and obligations. The ide
Re: Civics is useless (Score:3)
Perhaps it would be more productive to engage in conversations and activities that strive to correct failures, than to blame the person for their education over which they had no control.
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True, but he's trying to argue that schools need to teach what they're already teaching.
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True, but he's trying to argue that schools need to teach what they're already teaching.
Our government class didn't teach most of that, either. Government classes tend to be taught by the prevailing party in a given area. So you hear what they want you to hear.
So I think you're missing my point (Score:1, Flamebait)
And I'm not letting the left wing off the hook if you happen to be one of those oh I didn't spoke for Donald Trump types. I watched the left wing spent 18 months screaming about ge
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not here anymore to engage in useful conversations.
And you have achieved uselessness beyond your wildest dreams. I usually don't rep[ly to your screed, but I gotta give credit where it is due.
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I have no intention of reading your post (Score:2, Interesting)
Anyway if you go back before the election you will find me making genuine points, and honestly every now and then you'll hear me regurgitating a few of them out of habit.
Two or three months after the election I still had a little hope but watching the left wing and the Democrats basically completely ignore voter suppression while bickering and fighting and continuing their useless pointless 1960s style protests
Re: (Score:1)
Holy shit dude!!!!
My god. If anyone was ever in desperate need of therapy, it's you.
All this doom and gloom, despite the fact that everything is just fine for so many millions or billions of people!
People like you could be shitting gold nuggets and all you would manage to do is bitch about how much your asshole hurts.
You appear to have no earthly clue about how bad life can be, and the sheer, absolute and endless misery billions of people around the earth face every god damned day, with zero, and I mean ZER
I don't need therapy (Score:3)
Now I'm facing a massive recession, I am likely to lose my job and I'm too old to easily get another one, and my kid has had their entire future yanked away from them.
Therapy does not solve external economic problems caused by imbeciles who do not understand the world and who are full of petty bigotries and hatred that can be exploited
Slava Ukrani (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I mean Jesus fuck did you think I would bother to read
No, not really. As you said, you're here just to scream.
something that long and meandering?
More than half of it was me quoting you, and I didn't even quote all of what you said.
Anyway if you go back before the election you will find me making genuine points
No, they never were. You seem to believe your claims about voter suppression are genuine, too.
We are a nation of 12-year-olds. That goes for you and me and every fucking person in this country.
No, it's just you. As you already said, you're just here to scream like a 12 year old.
It's incredibly frustrating. It is so frustrating to watch Bernie Sanders doing the same useless crap that didn't work 10 years ago and isn't working now.
Ten years ago? Shit, he's been spending nearly his entire life trying to turn us into a planned economy, which the last 150 years have shown us doesn't work at all.
Honestly at this point I think our species is done.
No, I don't think so. Leec
Well good I'm glad we're all here (Score:1)
And you didn't prove me wrong wednesday, just to be clear I didn't read anything else in your comment just the person last sentences, but you didn't prove anyone wrong because my kids still can't go to grad school because a fat orange turd has still destroyed the department of educat
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For the same reason. To talk past each other and accomplish absolutely nothing while the world Burns because a handful of dipshits don't understand literally anything except that they are vaguely weirded out by queer people.
The world isn't burning, and there are always a handful of people doing things that you hate. Always have been, always will be. They have just as much of a right to exist as you do. They have just as much of a right to speak their mind as you do. The main difference between you and me is I recognize those rights. And I respond to them exactly the same way that I respond to you.
And you didn't prove me wrong wednesday
I gave you both a link and the relevant quoted bits that showed exactly the opposite of what you said, and I obtained that informati
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When you decided to have theybies, how did you figure out whether it would work, given you both wear they/them buttons on your shirts and never make assumptions about another person's sex? Do you like...meet at Juul first and then one of you says "I'm the keymaster, are you the gatekeeper?" Or did your tinder profile say "I want to make theybies, and I need a partner with working testicles" while your partner had a profile that said "I want to make theybies, and I need a partner with ovaries inside one of t
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Perhaps it would be more productive to engage in conversations and activities that strive to correct failures, than to blame the person for their education over which they had no control.
Civics is not useless, and if we decide not to teach civics because of a lack of perfection, then there is no chance of it being taught in any country.
There are other things that should be taught again in schools, like Home economics and financial responsibility.
And some things being taught in school reflect extreme far left ideology, which is no more responsible than far right groups using the Bible as a science textbook, or that economics teach the Trickle down theory as fact, or that the earth was
Re: Civics is useless (Score:2)
I agree with most of your post, but in America there is practically zero leftism being taught in schools.
If you think leftism is being taught in schools, then you either are making unfounded assumptions about what is being taught, or you do not know what leftism is.
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We were taught gerrymandering, voter suppression by poll tax, the Great Compromise, and the Electoral College, beginning by grade 7.
We were taught that in history class, not in our government class. Part of what's wrong with our country is that people think that these things are ancient history with no bearing on the present day.
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I doubt it. Everyone thinks what they learned was taught everywhere.
I never heard of the "great compromise", I had to look it up. I was taught, and the record shows, the Senate was seen as an elitist check on the popularly elected House. They were to be selected by the state legislatures. The "great compromise" settled the question of how many Senators each state would get.
Benjamin Franklin agreed that each state should have an equal vote in the Senate in all matters -- except those involving money. Over the Fourth of July holiday, delegates worked out a compromise plan that sidetracked Franklin's proposal.
As for gerrymandering, I suspect many Americans have no idea how it works or its implications. Most believe that somehow laws are passed
Grand Compromise was to protect small state (Score:2)
I never heard of the "great compromise", I had to look it up. I was taught, and the record shows, the Senate was seen as an elitist check on the popularly elected House. They were to be selected by the state legislatures.
Unless your teacher was a 1960s/70s radical who distorted the truth, you were probably taught that small states feared being outnumbered population wise by the larger states. Of being part of a 13-state nation where New York plus Virginia effectively ruled all. So the US legislature would have two components. One that represented the interests of the people, and one that represented the interests of the states. The two are not the same thing. And to accomplish anything, the House (people), the Senate (state
So to be clear the Senate (Score:2)
Another fun fact the reason George Washington didn't become king is that he was so god-tier wealthy that becoming a king would have felt like a downgrade. The scale of his wealth can't really be comprehended by us without modern sensibilities. Even with how crazy wealth inequality has become we just don't let assholes like Washington become that fucking rich.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
It wasn't just wealthy land owners. That was the elite in Virginia, but the merchant class was the elite in places like Boston, Philadelphia and New York.
The Hamiltonian's among the founders didn't believe people were capable of self-government. They were forced to accept it and wanted a group that would restrain the majority. They wanted a House of Lords. That was the Senate.
There was also conflict between regions. The fear was that a more populous region would eventually impose its will on all the other
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Most people believe in one or more gods too.
Most people are idiots.
There is no helping those people.
Idiots should not be permitted to be involved in government, or determining who government officials should be.
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No doubt. He was a brilliant man, and I certainly fall far short of his brilliance. I doubt he would want to associate with me, let alone put me in charge of anything.
Re: Our future is being taken from us (Score:2)
This! I think ai should absolutely be a standard part of education, including recognizing when it is being used to target your emotional responses. The fact that so many people can't recognize the autocrat's playbook as it is so unsubtly followed is horrifying. The fact that it took this obvious instance for me to recognize so many previous instance is even more so. When I read old comments I made here in the 90s, the naivety is so embarrassing. My code from that time is less embarrassing, and that is sayin
The stupid... It burns (Score:5, Insightful)
Why should an all-round education be replaced with a requirement for a vocational training for something that was "hot" yesterday?
This is a recipe for a disaster as people unprepared to deal with future change and with no generic skills leave school expecting a bright future.
Because our schools aren't there (Score:3)
This is why we give kids so much homework even though we have tons of research that shows it's basically worthless. It's to sort them into the ones who can work long hours for little or no reward and the ones who can't.
Hell schools in America got their start as a way to condition children to bells because the Farm workers being brought into the cities during the industrial revolution would wander off from the assembly line because t
Re: (Score:2)
Sure. (Score:2)
Next give kids free food at breakfast and lunch as well as after school. Stop pretending the dirt poor parents who didn't want the kids in the first place can meet the children's needs. Hungry children have all sorts of brain problems. I mean actual real physiological problems with their brains.
Next d
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Not only that, but CS and AI are techno-fluff compared to physics, biology, chemistry, and mathematics.
And the humanities in general are the nurseries for new ideas. We neglect them at our peril, producing vacant and shallow techno-gizmos.
Science and the humanities will erode into wastelands in the U.S. if Republicans get their way. Remember Republicans, the trick is to bang the rocks together (to reuse a Douglas Adams' phrase).
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Not only that, but CS and AI are techno-fluff compared to physics, biology, chemistry, and mathematics.
CS/AI are just another shop class. Maybe a required intro to see if one has any curiosity or interest, optional advanced classes for the real stuff.
Science and the humanities will erode into wastelands in the U.S. if Republicans get their way.
Oh please, the Democrats have done a wonderful job of eroding those too. Returning control to the parents is not a Republican issue. It's a bipartisan issue to maintain the integrity of the schools. Washington DC is not the solution for everything.
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Not only that, but CS and AI are techno-fluff compared to physics, biology, chemistry, and mathematics.
CS/AI are just another shop class. Maybe a required intro to see if one has any curiosity or interest, optional advanced classes for the real stuff.
Do they still do shop class? People actually learned some valuable things there. But I agree that exposure to it is good, but as a mandatory graduation requirement there are much better things that can be taught?
Science and the humanities will erode into wastelands in the U.S. if Republicans get their way.
Oh please, the Democrats have done a wonderful job of eroding those too. Returning control to the parents is not a Republican issue. It's a bipartisan issue to maintain the integrity of the schools. Washington DC is not the solution for everything.
There ya are! The present day public school system is embarrassingly left wing, and that had something to do with the recent election results, even if the left wingers here, refuse to admit it.
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If you're an anti-vaxxer ....
The anti vax movement is largely one of wealthy privileged liberals.
... a religious nutter or just a Republican in general.
Actually evangelists and such are just a fraction of the Republican coalition. And left-wing zealots hardly lack for religious-like dogma they cling to.
Of course you don't want the truth taught in schools.
Actually I do, as well as the majority of parents in the USA who are coming from Democratic, Republican, Independent, Libertarian, etc perspectives and want local control not Washington DC control.
Re: The stupid... It burns (Score:2)
CS should be a shop class. (Score:2)
"AI" is more of a computer literacy class thing. How to properly frame question for an AI to go out a search for an answer. Regarding ML and AI coding, that would be for one of those advanced and optional "CS" shop classes. I suppose "AI" appears in all C
Re: The stupid... It burns (Score:2)
What are you talking about? The booming tech economy of today rests on the shoulders of giants educated in trade schools to "code" DHTML in Dreamweaver, Coldfusion and Flash during the early aughts. How would the US compete without entry level employees skilled at optimizing the PLT1 / PLT2 for an e-commerce shopping cart?
There is a semi-legitimate argument for CS being taught in highschool - its old enough to have a body of knowledge, and fundamentals that can be taught and transferred across languages / t
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Authoritarians, in general, attack education first shredding accessibility to education, and standards being taught by teaching to the minimums. Since a minimally educated populace is easier to control, the last things they want taught are things like philosophy. Any history that isn't "rah rah GO TEAM" is called unpatriotic blah blah.
Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
These same people don't know what a file system [futurism.com] is and don't understand how to create directories or sub-directories [pcgamer.com] to organize their documents.
If they can't understand this basic stuff, no way would I trust them to code.
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These same people don't know what a file system [futurism.com] is..
When was the last time GenZ filed something? As in physically?
Do companies even use file cabinets anymore?
The only thing more annoying than generalizing about the intelligence and capacity of an entire generation, is finding the ignorant elders forgetting HOW you learned the concepts. Mechanics use far more than a fucking theory to teach how a socket wrench works. Maybe IT should remember that.
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These same people don't know what a file system is and don't understand how to create directories or sub-directories to organize their documents.
Who cares? They just have to be skilled enough at prompting ChatGPT or somesuch. Understanding is not needed.
(ROFLMAOOMFGWTFBBQ) or whatever that ridiculous derisive laugh was.
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That's just engineers being engineers. Makes me think of the used rocket parts sitting on my desk at work, and I don't even know how they got there, nor am I inclined to move them even though I don't do any work with rocket parts.
Hypocrisy as a new American Value (Score:5, Insightful)
It's good for optics, and costs very little, and nobody will ever check to see if you follow thru.
You need to do this to stay off Teacher's Detention List.
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If I was a "tech leader" I'd act as if I cared too. I'd make an announcement.
It's good for optics, and costs very little, and nobody will ever check to see if you follow thru.
You need to do this to stay off Teacher's Detention List.
This guy gets it.
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Oh but they DO CARE! Lower wages by flooding supply and filtering out the best!
PLUS you create a "crisis" to get more H1B Visas for those fake job postings where now you can have an AI filter just in case you actually get a great candidate who is willing to accept an under market salary.
Mommy, Daddy (Score:2)
Please sign the letter of support! I want to be a vibe coder when I grow up!
I know I'm cynical (Score:3)
Based on the companies behind code.org, cynical me tends to read between the lines on this two ways.
1. "We need lots more in-country people to go into computer- and AI-related fields - enough to drive the cost of those jobs down as far as possible."
2. "Despite our constantly beating the AI drum, most people don't seem to care about our AI products at all. Maybe we just need more headlines with AI in them..."
Re: I know I'm cynical (Score:2)
They also want schools to be forced to purchase their products. We should mandate that all K-12 software and education utilize only FOSS. Then see how much these companies clamor for CS in schools.
why do we need this (Score:2)
when the future is clearly meant to be families handing down jobs from generation to generation working in buggy whip factories or mining beautiful clean coal
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Don't forget about the millions of Americans who'll be putting those tiny screws into iPhones!
Truly the sorts of jobs Americans long for...
They're coming for your children (Score:3)
Microsoft, Meta, Palantir ... Not really companies I'd like to come near my children (if I had any). .. eh, not relevant perhaps except when you're reminded that it is owned by the same guy as is behind Amazon. Ditto.
Blue Origin?
They couldn't make adults use "AI". So they're trying to force it upon the next generation. That's despicable beyond belief.
Where do I sign the counter-list to protest against this?
And idea so dumb.... (Score:1)
This is an idea so dumb, it could have come from the Democrats or Trump. It's hard to tell anymore.
We need more of this (Score:2)
The automotive industry wants mandatory shop class.
The furniture industry wants mandatory woodworking class.
The chartered accountants want mandatory accounting class.
Every industry category should have their own mandatory class, and if you fail on 2 of the 173 exams, you're not graduating.
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CS in schools is bullshit (Score:3)
Right now, most CS classes, the way they're taught in school, is absolute bullshit.
They teach the same 100ish ALREADY SOLVED PROBLEMS algorithms. Not how to think. Not how to problem solve. Not how to create original code. But only how to memorize the same HackerRank or whatever bullshit interview test the tech firms use.
NONE of that is used in the real world, because they're all already-solved problems wrapped up nicely into hardened libraries that have been battle-tested.
The people doing insanely awesome research and development right now with those basic algorithms? That style of programming is largely ignored in "CS" education. Want a great example? strlen() function. It seems super simple on the surface, but the latest generation now uses vectorized instructions to complete the task faster. This has been a huge beneficial uplift in performance for routine tasks like parsing JSON data. But THIS type of programming is NOT what is taught in CS, even tho its some of the most interesting ACTUAL computer science research and development going on right now.
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If you can solve HackerRank algorithms, then you can write code to get the computer to do what you want. That is a low bar, but it is a necessary bar to surpass if you want to be a programmer.
Unlock 8 Video (Score:2)
Unlock 8: Make Computer Science and AI a Graduation Requirement [youtu.be]
Serious question (Score:2)
Scenario One: We further narrow education so that the bulk of it is effectively job training for careers in tech, and we pursue the unlimited growth of server farms for AI and social media, along with the resultant expansion of pervasive advertising, propaganda (sorry for that redundancy), and surveillance. As a side effect, we drastically increase greenhouse gas emissions and embrace a dystopian future.
Scenario Two: We re-tool the education system: allowing people to pursue their passions, and encouraging
Re: Serious question (Score:2)
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Considering there are millions of people trained in tech that nobody will hire NOW, scenario one seems like a bad plan even without the climate fear mongering.
pushers .. nothing but pushers. (Score:3)
Lowly pushers want their spot IN the schoolyard.
Our lives were perfect before you. We don't need everyoned to know that crap , in fact the less and less people will know about it but simply ignore it in their lives the better the world will be, We don't need our kids brainwashed to become the tech bro's slaves. They got enough as it is.
f*** them.
AI? (Score:2)
First, there is no AI, it's just today's marketing term everyone to espouse to bump their stocks, but we know that. So we need more CS skilled Americans? How about we start with all the CS proficient Americans who are OUT OF WORK DUE TO OUTSOURCING. There is as GLUT of CS skilled Americans, but there are few available jobs. When Google fires 5000 people in one week, are there 5000 jobs for them to take? Most have moved to different professions, paying much lower salaries. And the tech leaders know thi
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First, there is no AI, it's just today's marketing term everyone to espouse to bump their stocks
There is AI, but it is clearly weak AI.
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We need an AI blockchain. Imagine the billions that could be made off THAT scam!
I don't get it (Score:2)
Well if you read it from a point of view they are not just trying to train cheap workers.
Isn't the point of AI at least LLMs so it can understand humans, why would you need to train people to use AI?
Now if you want to train everyone to be able to create AI then sure you need training, but why on earth would you need that in a society?
Who is going to fund that? (Score:2, Informative)
Maybe if we stopped bringing in H-1Bs and other indentured visas to suppress wages, more people would be interested in pursuing this. But if I had to give guidance to a high school student who knew he didn't want college, I'd push him to HVAC, electrician or plumbing training. You can't outsource that, and we don't offer visas to pollute the job market and there's a definite shortage around here.
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Microsoft and Google are trying to influence that labor supply, too. 1. Microsoft President Calls For a National Talent Strategy For Electricians [slashdot.org]. 2. Google is announcing a new paper and support for an effort to train 100,000 electrical workers and 30,000 new apprentices in the United States [blog.google].
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Maybe if we stopped bringing in H-1Bs and other indentured visas to suppress wages, more people would be interested in pursuing this. But if I had to give guidance to a high school student who knew he didn't want college, I'd push him to HVAC, electrician or plumbing training. You can't outsource that, and we don't offer visas to pollute the job market and there's a definite shortage around here.
I see what you're getting at, and job security is nice. But all of these are jobs that are hard on the body, it's not unusual to hit 40 years old and be no longer able to do the bending and lifting required for HVAC, plumbing, electrical trades. And that's if the chronic asbestos exposure hasn't given you cancer yet. Meanwhile a good tech worker is just hitting their stride at age 40, finally getting to the stage where they can pick and choose which jobs they do, or name their price.
Of course, on both sides
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Exactly, there are millions of qualified and competent Americans they won't hire right now... you'd have to be a complete fscking idiot to train for tech or tell anyone to train for tech at this point.
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Yeah...the electrician living down the street from me had a house worth 5x mine.
That dumb bastard parleyed his skills into his own business and pocketed some million dollars a year.
What a fool he was!
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That is business, not a trade; which is why business majors are so popular... people who lack skills trying to ride on the backs of those who do (ok, some business people have skills and you can be skilled at business itself; don't take my rounding off of a minority to be a universal statement.)
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Uh huh. And the fact that his business is based on his experience as a tradesman, which he worked for some ten years before starting the business, and still worked as he owned the business, is completely irrelevant, eh?
Go back to corporate training (Score:3)
There was a time when businesses expected their employees to have basic skills for the job, and weren't afraid (or too cheap) to supplement their knowledge with in-house training, specific to the needs of the business. Now job seekers have to match the requirements of the job precisely, regardless of how unrealistic that is. The employee added value to the business, and the business added value to the employee. Employee loyalty was higher as a result, as the employee recognized that working where they were was providing useful experience (note: I recognize this was not universal.)
If you expect your workers to know everything they need to excel in the job without any training, you've hired people who can easily move somewhere else without thinking twice. If you provide nothing but a paycheck, don't expect long-term employees.
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They don't care about long term employees; they just want disposable employees.
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I think that's true for a lot of people.
Personally, all I need is the paycheck and the associated benefits that come with it.
About 1-2% of the workforce (Score:1)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]
While everyone needs to read, write, and do arithmetic to function, and just about everyone has to know enough "college prep math" to be able to make a budget or figure out loans or amortization of one kind or another, a very small fraction of the working population needs the be able to do calculus and up, and only about 1-2% of people will ever need to write code.
Nearly everyone is eligible to vote. Almost everyone might cross paths with the legal system either as plaintiff
One is not like the other (Score:2)
I am all for making CS (actual computer science!) a requirement. But AI, nah, except maybe as a side note about what it *cannot* do, or maybe in the context of linear algebra.
The reason I think teaching CS and coding is a good thing is for the same reason why teaching maths above simple arithmetic is a good thing: it teaches logical thinking and a rigorous approach to solving problems. When you write a computer program, you can't be sloppy, what you write is what the computer will do, the computer will not
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I know a fair amount on this topic. CS in education is poor and even the decent stuff is a waste. This is partially a ploy to lower wages and over saturate the CS market (or funded by those with that motivation.) Even more so as shit programmers are enhanced by AI tools. I don't look forward to fixing all that code...
1st off we have a complex world. It made the successful nations force teenagers to get free education generations ago. Now we are more complex. We need more advanced free mandatory education..
WTF do they even mean (Score:2)
If we have AI, why do we need CS? (Score:1)
The people who think that CS should be a graduation requirement need to meet up with the people who claim that English is the hottest new programming language and sort this shit out. .
this will ruin cs (Score:1)
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they will force bad people into the class with good people then in order to pass them they will dumb the it down.
This is the fundamental operating principle of public schools. Has nothing to do with CS or AI.
It's also why we send our kid to a private school.
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1/3 of your money is being spent on selling you how great your brat is and how they are making your brat elite and whatever other BS you would like to hear.
Oh, dear child. You assume far too much.
His school makes no claims about my kid, and it certainly makes no claims about being "elite". Hell, more than half of the kids are black and other minorities. How fucking elite could they possibly claim to be?
How about you spend the money on a tutor in addition to public school;
Why would I do that? If tutoring is required, the school isn't doing its job. Time to find another school.
where your child learns there are other people outside your bubble;
and what bubble would that be?
I've seen the majority of private school children be subpar but very confident and clueless about the real world as they enter public high school.
Uh....congratulations?
Few in college because they tend to go to private college as well; the college graduates can be fine or total assholes similar to JD Vance.
Thanks for sharing....I guess.
Use or design the box (Score:2)
Certainly there is a important need for future students and workers to know how to use computers and AI. However, there is no need to know how to create computers and AI tools for most people. Perhaps the analog would be requiring degrees in designing or at least maintaining cars because simply knowing how to drive cars is insufficient.
Once you work and fight for your Black Belt (Score:2)
your career has just begun.
Who cares what they want? (Score:2)
We're a Constitutional Republic, not an oligarchy. Business leaders can want all sorts of crap, but that does not obligate any federal or state department of education or any local school board to give (or sell) it to them.
Just imagine what would happen if every industry demanded that their particular field of expertise would be required as a graduation requirement... There's not enough hours in a day to teach carpentry, plumbing, electrical engineering, diesel engines, nuclear power, accounting, surgery, d
only one can be true (Score:1)
Lately we're getting lots of headlines about how beautifully AI works, how it already produces XX% of code in some company, and how it already replaces codes.
Now we're hearing that CS and AI should be graduation requirements.
Which one is it then?
The game to lower wages (Score:2)
This would be like requiring LAW as required course for k-12.
So everyone is skilled in Legal and now there is an over supply of lawyers. That causes lower wages.
So if everyone knows at least some level of programming then there will be more programmers so supply demand in the work force works in the company favor.
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^ This. Tech companies in the US won't hire qualified Americans as it is. There is a perpetual imaginary shortage of talent the vast majority of US STEM grads can't find employment in their field; the same is true for the majority of those without degrees and over 10yrs progressive and varied experience.
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A good friend of mine from HS has been an unemployed lawyer for many years.....still living in the same bedroom as he did in high school.