SourceForge Donation System for Projects 116
comforteagle writes "O'Reilly Developer News is reporting that SourceForge has begun a donations program for hosted projects in addition to the program which was for supporting the site. Apparently project admins have to opt-in to have the program setup for them, but it sounds like a pretty good idea. There's a 5% transaction fee, but that doesn't sound totally unreasonable. Perhaps a limit would be a good idea though." Sourceforge and Slashdot are both owned by VA Software Corp.
So...... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So...... (Score:1, Troll)
Today we are launching a system that allows users to not only donate to SF.NET, but also to their favorite projects.
If they feel your "sit on my ass project" is worth their money, sure.
Transaction fee (Score:5, Informative)
This is even less than what 2checkout charges [2checkout.com]. Not a bad deal at all and SourceForge gets a bit left over after processing fees.
Re:Transaction fee (Score:2, Informative)
Minimum transaction fee: $1. So the percentage varies from 5% to 20% depending on how much you spend.
Re:Transaction fee (Score:5, Informative)
Sounds like... (Score:2, Troll)
Re:Sounds like... (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't agree on the shareware thing, it's not like you have to pay.
I see more and more OSS projects accepting donations, and my guess is that there will be more to come. The good thing is that you can support the ones YOU feel like need supporting! So the couple of projects you think of, fine, support them, I'm sure they could use your money.
Re:Sounds like... (Score:5, Insightful)
The beauty of this system (as well as it's potential downfall) is the possibility of the projects to redirect the money. Where projects use other projects as the basis of their work (say a cdrecord front-end), the front-end is more likely to attract end-user cash then the back-end but should recognise the appropriatness of redistributing some of their donations to the back-end. If this works well you would see the cash going into all the systems valued by the end user. If it goes badly you will see warefare within projects as well as between projects who share code. So who thinks the people within each project in charge of the money distribution will be able to do the right thing? I don't though I really wish they could!
I would rather see donations going to a collection of groups like SPI, FSF, UserLinux, Mandrake, Lindows who can act as a front end to collect money and channel it out to places where they think it's going to get the best value for the donators (including giving it to themselves to keep working). This of course would not prevent warfare, but at least it would provide a handful of central decision making bodies to examine and evaluate so the community could bring to potential donators attention the history of how the bodies have acted and who therfore are the best choices depending on what you aim to promote. It is for this reason I see Mandrake and even Lindows as potential donation targets (and you could argue for most commercial linux offerings) as they both develop internally and by bringing in outside interests, Lindows going for the big publicity grabbing things (FrontPage replacement, XBoxLinux and of course the eponymous distro), Mandrake just looking to put together a good set of distros. Of course there is no means to make a donation to a US company (not sure around the world how this works) as Michael Moore delighted in by bringing around fat cheques to "give" to companies.
Re:Sounds like... (Score:2)
Having to donate to a central group means that they will use the money in a way that they see fit and will likely not be totally compatible with the wishes of the donor. I disagree completely that that would be a better system.
Re:Sounds like... (Score:2)
Re:Sounds like... (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't think I would mind having non-encumbered, free redistribution, free modification, full source available shareware. If it can still be called that way
A couple.
For all the rest life will simply go on. These couple will have better opportunities. No loss.
Serviceware (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't think I would mind having non-encumbered, free redistribution, free modification, full source available shareware. If it can still be called that way :)
You should call it Serviceware, since you're essentially supporting the concept of software development as a service instead of a product. Some companies (plug, plug) already [subsume.com] release software like that.
Re:Sounds like... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Sounds like... (Score:2)
OK, I'll bite.
How is that going to work?
You have the full source, you edit out the license checking code, and you then run the program for free.
Ergo, open source software is indeed free, in both meanings of the word.
Re:Sounds like... (Score:2)
Open Source!=Free(beer) software!=Free(speech) Software
Re:Sounds like... (Score:2)
Open source == free (beer) software == free (speech) software.
Re:Sounds like... (Score:2)
Re:Sounds like... (Score:2)
How is that going to work? You have the full source,
No you don't. You only have the full source (and the binaries etc) after you pay. Imagine a Linux distro that's only available in a box.
Of course, this goes wrong the moment one of the people who bought the package decides to put it on Kazaa, something he's allowed to do.
Re:Sounds like... (Score:2)
And as soon as I have, there is nothing in law to stop me making said modification and redistributing the source for free to everyone.
Heck, it is positivly encouraged (nay, mandated) than any mods are returned to the community, after all...
Re:Sounds like... (Score:1)
I never thought I would see the day that John Farnham would make it to
At least you didn't start quoting "Sadie the Cleaning Lady".
Could get messy (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Could get messy (Score:2, Offtopic)
From the article: Today we are launching a system that allows users to not only donate to SF.NET, but also to their favorite projects.
It's the user/donator himself who chooses which project get the money, not SF or any other authority.
Re:Could get messy (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Could get messy (Score:5, Insightful)
I see your point, and it would mean that as a contributor to a project you trust the project manager with handling the money. Remember, each project must sign up for this opportunity themselves, they are not automatically a part of it.
Re:Could get messy (Score:2)
If you contribe to OSS it shouldn't be because of financial gains but rather because you think you can add something to the project.
I guess not many projects will get so much money that it would be something to really argue over. As I see this wouldn't be the way big corporations would sponsor projects like they do today. I think they'll still contant the projects directly and either put somebody on their payroll to work on the project or donate equipment.
This
Re:Could get messy (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Could get messy (Score:2)
I will not be donating any of my money to occult activities. All this talk of witches and daemons... you should be ashamed!
Re:Could get messy (Score:3, Insightful)
I for one consider this an excellent initiative from SourceForge.
Project developers get a standardized solution for monetary support
and SourceForge gets money to support their servers and are able to provide better service.
Besides, in projects where the division of money
would prove difficult the decision would be easy to just not join the program.
Also, we're talking pennies here. Open source developers and their users are cheap SOBs
Re:Could get messy (Score:1)
too little to worth starting a fight.
Re:Could get messy (Score:2)
But that being said, all incentives that generate more OSS either through money or other means, is a good incentive.
Re:Could get messy (Score:2)
Re:Could get messy (Score:1)
Re:Could get messy (Score:2)
Re:Could get messy (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Could get messy (Score:2)
If contributors of a project fight over distribution of money, then that project is already a history. I don't expect any projects run by people with no coordination with each other or common goals to be successful.
For fairness to all members involved, however, the information regarding to given donation has to be available to all members. Otherwise only a few close to the source *can* take advantage
Re:Could get messy (Score:1)
how about just using paypal? (Score:2, Interesting)
5% Transaction Fee (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm not saying it is fair or unfair or even insensitive, but interesting.
Heck, a lot of charities will skim 60% off the top of donations just for canvasing etc. In this respect 5% sound quite reasonable.
PayPal vs SourceForge - Breakdown (Score:5, Informative)
PayPal charges max 2.9%, plus $0.30.
If you want to donate $1.00 to your favorite Free Software project, the fee is 5 cents through SourceForge and 33 cents through PayPal.
If you want to donate $5.00, the fee is 25 cents through SourceForge and 54 cents through PayPal.
If you want to donate $10.00, the fee is 50 cents through SourceForge and 59 cents through PayPal.
If you want to donate $15, the fee is 75 cents through SourceForge and 74 cents through PayPal.
If you want to donate $20.00, the fee is $1 through SourceForge and 88 cents through PayPal.
PayPal is therefore a better solution for donations >= $15.
Re:PayPal vs SourceForge - Breakdown (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:PayPal vs SourceForge - Breakdown (Score:1, Interesting)
And only open source projects hosted on sourceforge, which is not good in my oppinion.
Re:PayPal vs SourceForge - Breakdown (Score:4, Informative)
You can take 5% of anything. It doesn't suggest a larger percentage at all.
Re:PayPal vs SourceForge - Breakdown (Score:2)
The quoted text says quite clearly "F.NET is taking a 5% piece of the transaction fee"
In order for it to be a piece, the whole fee must be bigger. Somewhat unclear to be sure, but there it is.
Re:PayPal vs SourceForge - Breakdown (Score:5, Interesting)
But you forget one thing.
The fee will be used to provide much needed bandwidth and hosting space.
Paypal does not contribute back.
Re:PayPal vs SourceForge - Breakdown (Score:1)
See, thats what really bothers me. "Giving back to the community" is subjective. A donation system based on the warm-fuzzy-community feeling will generate quite objective cash-cow revenue.
You could always buy Microsoft products because Bill G donates huge loads of money to African and South American stuck-in-poverty countries.
In the end, the open source system has many of the flaws in the larger political system. People are not only giving money, but contributing with val
Re:PayPal vs SourceForge - Breakdown (Score:3, Insightful)
Excuse me, aren't they already backed by VA and IBM commercially as well as funded by dozens of non-Free Software banner ads littering the site's pages as it is?
If this donation system actually begins to improve the service quality of SourceForge, while removing ALL banner ads, I see it as a good thing, except, that's not going to be the case here.
Let's also not forget about SourceForge drifting [advogato.org] away from the community, being no
Re:PayPal vs SourceForge - Breakdown (Score:2)
Re:PayPal vs SourceForge - Breakdown (Score:5, Informative)
I was a "middle management type" with Pay-Pal until leaving recently- partally due to my disgust over their internal security policies which have led to the mountain of complaints seen on this and other similar boards. There aren't many PP whistleblowers; during your "exit interview" a soon-to-be-former manager is warned, intimidated and threatened against doing the very thing I'm doing right now. But since I left to start my own business, there's not a thing they can do to me.
Pay-Pal DID start as an honest, legitimate company with an innovative service concept. However, in my opinion, this concept can never actually WORK in the real world because there are legions of scammers all over the globe with reams of stolen credit card info and identifications just WAITING to swoop down on any new "payment service" like this that comes along. Credit-card transactions where the "card is not present" and thus personally examined by a clerk account for the overwhelming majority of fraud transactions. Comparitavely, there's very LITTLE credit card fraud at Wal-Mart, because the cashier actually sees both you and the card- and can ask for supporting identification at the point of sale. Unfortunatly, the high-risk, "card not present" transactions are the ONLY kind of transaction a company like PP can do, and boy- did the con artists find them in a hurry! The basic con was (and is) to use stolen identification information to open new PP accounts, funnel money into them with stolen credit card numbers, then transfer the money OUT of the account before PP gets the charge-back and can freeze it. Unfortunately, despite PP's claims of having a "tough anti-fraud program", these people are mostly impossible to catch, because when opening a new PP account, they DO have all the proper-appearing ID information (which was stolen or conned out of unsuspecting individuals, most of whom have never HEARD of Pay-Pal). When fraud is uncovered and the account is checked out, the perp is almost never caught, since it was almost always opened under a stolen identity, and he's long abandoned the mail-drop.
Yes, the application process COULD be made more stringent, but it is felt (probably correctly) that a brand-new customer would certainly balk at doing things like sending in notorized copies of their driver's licence and so forth. So an "alternate strategy" for offsetting the charge-back losses slowly evolved at PP. It's the perfect scheme really; since PP can't usually catch the scammers and dosen't want to loose customer base by making things more stringent to start with- they decided to simply re-coup their chargebacks from the pockets (and accounts) of good, solid people under the easily-defensible and impossible-to-criticize guize of "Fraud Prevention and Enforcement".. Simply put, if you're a seller and somebody pays you with a stolen credit card, you're targeted by PP security and might very well have your account siezed, "investigated", closed- and the money retained by PP. (Yes... they simply "add" it to their revenues and spend it like any other income. You basically gave them permission to do this under the "terms and conditions" you originally agreed to. No, I KNOW you didn't really read it, but I bet you will the next time!). Even if the person paying you has NOT used a stolen credit card, he could have been been flagged by PP as "somebody to keep an eye on" for any one of numerous reasons. If he does business with YOU, especially multiple times- you're frozen. OCCASIONALLY some lucky soul will complain about the siezure, and when the case is "investigated" by PP he is "cleared" and the money unfrozen. This good fortune has nothing to do with an actual "investigation" (there aren't any, really). Pay-Pal WILL unfreeze a small percentage of the accounts (as a future defense against a potential class action), so you MAY benefit from a simple luck of the draw. See, if it ever comes down to a massive class-action lawsuit, or even testimo
Re:PayPal vs SourceForge - Breakdown (Score:1)
I don't know how it is in the rest of the world, but in Ireland the clerk has virtually no impact on the security of the transaction. I don't even sign my own name for most small transactions. I once wrote 'Krusty the Klown' surrounded by stars as my signature, just to see if the clerk was paying attention.
Also, your post is misleading. Maybe fraud
OK, I'm an idiot (Score:4, Informative)
http://sourceforge.net/tos/donations.php [sourceforge.net]
It seems that SourceForge is actually using PayPal to handle the donations. They're just taking 5% of PayPal's fee, at least that's how I read it, so they must have worked a deal with PayPal.
Some better information in the story would have been nice. As it was, I clicked the link to OreillyNet, which had a link to SourceForge's forums, where I had to read an entire post and then locate a link to SourceForge's Terms of Use, which then directed me to yet another page describing the Donations Terms of Use.
A lot of digging to find info about this new feature. You'd think, being a VA entity, that Slashdot would have spiced the story up with a few more relevant links!
Re:OK, I'm an idiot (Score:5, Informative)
PayPal deducts from each transaction a service fee in accordance with their policies; this fee may vary depending on currency conversion and other factors. SourceForge.net also assesses a separate service fee. As of 2003-12-01, the SourceForge.net fee is 5% of the donation, with a $1 minimum.
So, SF fee is separate from PayPal's fee and is charged on top of that; and has a minimum of $1. With bunch of small donations $5 to $10 from each contributor, the SF fee alone will be in the whopping 10%-20% range.
Re:OK, I'm an idiot (Score:3, Informative)
Perhaps we should point out that the cheapest way to receive donations is still to publish an address, work address, or P.O. box number. (If you think addresses should be private, have a look at your WHOIS listing sometime)
You can then mail cash as a donation, and it'll cost a few tens of cen
we can do a bit better than mailing cash. (Score:1)
e-gold fees http://www.e-gold.com/unsecure/fees.htm
Anyway, if they get past all the admitted complexity of a new way to think about money, e-gold really-does work an
PayPal is not available everywhere (Score:1)
PayPal is available [paypal.com] in 38 countries which is not few, but far from being ubiquitos.
In order to this business model be really successful there should be an international micropayment system which could be used easily by anyone on Earth.
Re:PayPal vs SourceForge - Breakdown (Score:2)
Not nessesarily... SF gets some of the profit, and they're a good business, whom I don't mind supporting. It's like when I go buy food from a local store at 25%-50% higher costs so that I know I'm supporting a good business.
Re:PayPal vs SourceForge - Breakdown (Score:1)
1.05x = 1.03x + 0.3
subtract you get
0.02x = 0.3
divide by
x = 15.00
Still, needs a paypal acount... (Score:4, Interesting)
Not that I think I could bring donations, but just to experiment a while it would be useful to have a chance to re-donate without the mess of creating a paypal account (I code just for fun, I may change my mind later but right now that's what I would like to do: redirect a 100% just to see what happens).
support? (Score:5, Insightful)
Paypal.com may be a bad idea (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Paypal.com may be a bad idea (Score:2)
Still the best (Re:Paypal.com may be a bad idea) (Score:5, Insightful)
I've accepted a hundred or so payments thru PayPal; not one person I've dealt with had a bad experience and told me about it. A couple of people emailed me and said they did not have PayPal accounts and weren't going to get them because they "heard that PayPal is evil incarnate...". So they mailed me a check.
If you ask me, these people are being silly. They just sent a person they do not know (me), who is in another state or country, their checking account number. Thats like having unprotected sex. Oops I forgot this is slashdot and some of you may be unfamiliar with what that is - think of it as taking on a battle cruiser with your shields down.
There is nothing wrong with being a little careful with online payment systems. For example, I've tied my PayPal account to a throwaway checking account and credit card, not my main account and card. So if something does go wrong I can still make the mortgage payment at the end of the month while I get the snafu cleared up (no snafus yet). And when I get deposits into my PayPal account I immediately withdraw them into the checking account. It costs nothing to request withdrawal of funds.
Re:Still the best (Re:Paypal.com may be a bad idea (Score:1)
Even though his post is somewhat offensive, I quite literally laughed out loud at this. Sorry, no mod poitns.
Re:Paypal.com may be a bad idea (Score:4, Informative)
SourceForge mention that their system is a good way to donate money to organisations such as the EFF.
It's worth noting however, that both the Free Software Foundation [fsf.org], and the Electronic Frontiers Foundation [eff.org] accept credit cards directly, without any sort of intermediary.
As for Debian, there's the Software in the Public Interest [spi-inc.org] site, which is setup to handle donations to Debian, or to other Free Software projects.
If you have more time than money, consider the Help Wanted pages at SourceForge [sourceforge.net] and Savannah [gnu.org] (currently unavailable)
Donations to the EFF are tax deductible! (Score:2)
Quote from the EFF link in parent post:
"EFF is a 501(c)(3) charitable organization, so your donation is 100% tax-deductible in the United States."
So no money to Paypal (good) and no money to George B. (good too).
Spend the saved money from the taxes to Sourceforge
Bye egghat.
Re:Paypal.com may be a bad idea (Score:2)
Below, when I say "merchant" I'm talking about someone who is selling a good or service, and is receiving payment from a customer using a payment processor.
I can see pros and cons to both ways of processing payments: the "proper credit card processing" way and the PayPal way. If you're a merchant, proper credit card processing locks you into a contract, requires you to pay an appl
It would be interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
I would have to vote for Perl/Python modules for GNU cash.
Re:It would be interesting (Score:2)
Haven't you joined Affero [affero.org] lately?
Seriously, Affero is an interesting concept, whereby your helpful code, suggestions, usenet posts, emails, etc. can be rated by people within the community that benefit from that help, and donations given by those individuals gets contributed to the organizations of their choice. The developer/user themselves gets 0% of the donation, 100% of it goes to other organiza
Re:It would be interesting (Score:3, Funny)
You haven't given money to the US government have you?
Re:It would be interesting (Score:1)
0wn3d. (Score:3, Insightful)
Nah, I don't really know if there's a solution. While the compromise seems to be working okay (at least in the server market), for how long will be people willing to work for free for IBM?
How much is hacker reputation really worth?
Re:0wn3d. (Score:3, Insightful)
I give back to the Linux kernel, mozilla, apache and other projects not because I wish to get "kewl hacker cred" but because these are tools that affect my daily life, and I get paid by my clients for the time I spend improving them.
So does IBM. When you say things like "work free for IBM," you ignore the fact that in the exact same sense, IBM is also "working free for me".
We're all working to improve the technical commons, most of us ar
Re:0wn3d. (Score:1)
See, the problem is that these "contributions to the community" are not quantifiable. Hypocrite Computers Inc. can write the coolest screen saver for X, and get the whole bare metal interface, not to mention dozens of end-user apps.
And in the end, call it Hypocrite Computer OS, powered by linux (or, what, bsd) technlogy.
Sheeeesh. Looks like some fruit-named company has done it already. I should get in this OSS business. Proper marketing
Re:0wn3d. (Score:3, Insightful)
Exactly how much they are required to: An amount between zero and infinity, inclusive.
Why do you think that IBM, or Hypocrite computers, for that matter, benefitting from work I was paid to produce hurts me in any way? There is also the mechanism for them to return the favor, but certainly not the requirement. Eventually (or at least statistically), they will need to fix something to work their way - Porting JFS, for instance. When the
Re:0wn3d. (Score:1)
I apologize if I'm misrepresenting your point, but even if the marginal cost in reproducing the bare metal software the kernel people wrote is very small (these days, basically the bandwidth or the storage medium), there's a huge fixed cost involved in the making of even simple software like a window manager or a text editor.
Just start with the education
Re:0wn3d. (Score:3, Insightful)
For those that simply take my work and use it for whatever purpose they choose, I don't know what it may cost them - It doesn't matter, from my perspective.
If you feel gentoo is "done" then of course you wouldn'
Re:0wn3d. (Score:1)
You might want to rethink the wording of this statement. From most businesses perspectives, it may cost you a bundle. Just a note, not arguing with your overall point here.
If I code up a great game engine, and someone else makes $20 million using my engine, and I gave it away free, then I'm out a substantial amount of money. It's not even a question whether I am out the money or not.
Re:0wn3d. (Score:3, Insightful)
No. Again, it costs you nothing for someone else to benefit from your work.
It may have cost you something to build the work - I'm not arguing that point. But it cost you nothing to give it away.
But, if, for instance, you and 15 other game developers chipped in a fraction of your 20 million to build an even better free game engine (release the code, no
Dude, you have no frickin' clue (Score:2)
Dude, you have no frickin' clue how much VA Software, via Sourceforge, has done for the open source community. Even if they are making a profit through donations and banner adds--and I fervently hope they are, so
Re:0wn3d. (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know that the stories are true, but I see no way to prove that they AREN'T true. Not until there is federal level law that states that PayPal is subject to standard fiduciary responsibility laws.
(If you want, I'll grant that that isn't much proctection. But appearantly currently the only protection is backlash in the press...you know, the press that thin
"non-profits that support Open Source" (Score:5, Interesting)
Does anyone has a complete list? Does it include KDE e.V. too?
Re:"non-profits that support Open Source" (Score:4, Informative)
Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF)
Apache Foundation
Open Source Initiative (OSI)
Gnome Foundation
KDE.ORG
The Python Software Foundation
SourceForge.net
And one can set a percentage between 5% and 100%
About Time (Score:4, Interesting)
Often the open-source stuff is better supported, more stable and has better features than the commercial software that it replaced. Two examples of this are VNC and Liberum (both SourceForge hosted projects).
VNC works much better for us than other commercial software and Liberum has completely replaced all of other helpdesk software due to its easy web interface and no need for a client install. A support person can clear a call while sitting on the desk of the person whose box they have just fixed.
If we gave even a percentage of the money that we saved due to these two products, it would run in the thousands of pounds.
Re:About Time (Score:2, Interesting)
As far as I can see, many OSS developers have philosophical attractions to the concept of free and open software, but why should this stand in the way of them making a buck or two?
Yeah, sure, VA Systems and Paypal are commercial entities, but what's wrong with that? What are all the OSS developers' day jobs? (Or where do their parents work?) I mean, you gotta put food on the table. And hopefully a new dual G5 once you've got the food
paypal fee 32 times higher than e-gold! (Score:2, Informative)
for a dollar donation that sucks!!!
e-gold charges 1% capped at 50cents.
so a dollar donation is a penny fee.
32X more fees for 1 dollar donation when using
paypal instead of e-gold!
mozilla foundation accepts e-gold.
This is already being done (Score:1)
SourceSupport.org does this better (Score:3, Informative)
Here is a clip from their FAQ...
1. What is SourceSupport.org?
SourceSupport.org provides a system to pay programmers, artists, content creators and just about anyone that can provide a solution to challenges submitted by users. For example, let's say that there is a large group of people out there that want 'Program X' ported over to 'Operating System Y'. First, someone submits the challenge on SourceSupport.org. Others who see the challenge and are willing to donate for the cause can submit any amount they want with the hope that the added funds will persuade someone to come along and take on the challenge. Hopefully the challenge will be met and it becomes a win-win situation for both the donors and the person/team that completed the challenge. The donors get 'Program X' running on 'Operating System Y' and those who completed the challenge get paid. Finally a good way for a Open Source programmer make some cash for their efforts.
Wishlists & Bounties (Score:3, Insightful)
C U!
Mario Valente
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
this horse may be dead, but... (Score:2)