Born To RUN: Dartmouth Throwing BASIC a 50th B-Day Party 146
theodp writes: "Still hanging on to a dog-eared copy of BASIC Computer Games? Back issues of Creative Computing? Well then, Bunky, mark your calendar for April 30th, because Dartmouth College is throwing BASIC a 50th birthday party that you won't want to miss! From the 'invite' to BASIC at 50: 'At 4 a.m. on May 1, 1964, in the basement of College Hall, Professor John Kemeny and a student programmer simultaneously typed RUN on neighboring terminals. When they both got back correct answers to their simple programs, time-sharing and BASIC were born. Kemeny, who later became Dartmouth's 13th president, Professor Tom Kurtz, and a number of undergraduate students worked together to revolutionize computing with the introduction of time-sharing and the BASIC programming language. Their innovations made computing accessible to all Dartmouth students and faculty, and soon after, to people across the nation and the world [video — young Bill Gates cameo @2:18]. This year, Dartmouth is celebrating 50 years of BASIC with a day of events on Wednesday, April 30. Please join us as we recognize the enduring impact of BASIC, showcase innovation in computing at Dartmouth today, and imagine what the next 50 years may hold.' Be sure to check out the vintage photos on Flickr to see what real cloud computing looks like, kids!"
We've come a long way (Score:5, Funny)
Re:We've come a long way (Score:4, Informative)
Re:We've come a long way (Score:5, Informative)
Yes very much so. And VB.Net still puts people off because of that long history. Even though it's pretty much exactly the same functionality as C#. Last I checked, it has some features C# didn't have, the biggest of which is better background compiling. You can add entire classes with actually compiling your project, and Intellisense will work. Maybe C# will do that now, but VB.Net has basically always had this feature.
A developer who converted a lot of VB code from VB7 to .NET said that one difference with C# is that typing is more strictly enforced at compile time. After testing on a sample he discovered that porting to VB.NET was quicker, but converting to C# discovered some obscure bugs in the original code - some of which had work-arounds applied as they had ever been fully understood. We went for the port to C# with the result that the ported application was more stable than the original.
Re: (Score:2)
Option Strict is your friend.
I'm not a .net developer but from what i was told C# was stricter than "Option Strict" in VB.Net
Re: (Score:3)
Option Strict is your friend.
In addition to Option Explicit. Friends indeed. But to the OP's behalf, Option Explicit is relatively new (2005 I think). There is still a lot of VB code out there that predates that feature.
But even then I think one should not need to rely on such things.
I used to be a QuickBasic and VB programmer back in Pre-(Internet)-Cambian times (and, oh, the horrror, PickBasic with numeric goto statements). We guarded ourselves (or I least I did) by using strict coding conventions and Hungarian notation on vari
Re: (Score:2)
Case sensitivity is the one big turn-off to using C-syntax to me. If I am going to deal with it, then I want my damn pointers back, so I'd just as soon work in C++ and have some actual power to go with the inconvenience. Otherwise, for just business-logic and general DB stuff, VB.NET is quite nice to work in.
Re: (Score:2)
Why do you want case insensitivity in a language?
Re: (Score:1)
Because people lazy and stupid.
Case-insensitivity is a terrible idea in a programming language.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well that sounds good, or at least not bad, in that it eliminates potential case typos, and may reduce the need for the shift key for those who don't use it automatically anyway.
But it's neither case sensitivity, nor case insensitivity, but IDE case fixup.
For a language itself, I still can't see an argument for it not being case sensitive.
Re: (Score:2)
In general for a similar reason that VB.Net IDE corrects case. Because you don't want different parts of a program using STATUS, Status and status for the same variable.
But there are also use cases for identifiers only varying by case. e.g. Many coding standards say that classes start with a capital, and objects with a lowercase. So:
TextView is a class.
textView is an object of the type TextView.
Then there's indicating word divisions by case:
"mId" may be a member variable identifier.
"mid" is a local variable
Re: (Score:2)
I'd also be wary of coding standards that allows classes, methods, and fields to be the same name. There is literally no good reason to have something like StupidIdea.stupididea().ToList(stupidIdea);.
My example, which is a common one, is classes and objects which might have the same name. Which would never result in any line of code like that. You'd only get something like this:
TextView *textView;
Which is not at all confusing.
If you can guarantee that all IDEs for a language will fix the case, then it makes no difference whether the language is case sensitive/insensitive.
But if you can't, case sensitivity is better. If you get the case wrong with a case sensitive language, then you'll usually get a comp
Re: (Score:2)
You see it used a lot for objects and an instance of the object. For example, in C# you might have a class named Person and create an instance of it like this:
Person person = new Person();
Re: (Score:2)
So you can declare a variable of type MyClass called myClass, or a method that returns a MyClass called myClass().
In most languages this would be impossible if case was not preserved by lexical scanning (there are a few languages where the intention can be distinguished by syntax, which would allow the class name and method to be exactly the same, and then case sensitivity may be less of a problem).
Another huge problem with case insensitivity is that the rules get really complex once you get out of ASCII-on
Re: (Score:2)
The real issue about VB.NET is the .NET added technical complexity to the language.
BASIC then Visual Basic was intended to be a language that anyone can code without a strong Computer Science foundation.
Great for Engineers who need to do some complicated calculations or create some simulations. Or for Business folks who need to get these early computers to do things with it, as we didn't have Spreadsheets ready yet.
Visual Basic was still easy for these groups too. It did a better job of organizing stuff int
Re: (Score:2)
If you want verbose, look at Java or even worse, COBOL.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I think it would be more accurate to say that C# is Visual Basic with a C-like syntax so programmers no longer have to feel ashamed of using Basic.
Let's face it: no matter whether you're using Java, C#, Python or C++ with a modern toolkit, we're all programming in Visual Basic now.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Memories (Score:5, Interesting)
I remember as a child reading BASIC programs out of Compute Magazine for my dad to type in on our TI computer. That likely means I was reading code before I read my first real novel, which is amusing.
I try not to admit at work that I've had to learn VBA for Excel for a tool we use.
Re:Memories (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe you should GOTO the event.
Re:Memories (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Memories (Score:5, Funny)
But then he can't RETURN...
Re: (Score:3)
POKE a hole in it, it's done.
Re: (Score:3)
Then it was on to FORTRAN punch cards.
NOT the good old days.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I was reading BASIC programs even though I had never seen or used a computer.
Re: (Score:2)
I still program in BASIC. (Sometimes) (Score:3, Interesting)
BASIC is where M$ got its start (Score:5, Interesting)
(That and the $ helps to distinguish Microsoft from multiple sclerosis [jokebuddha.com].)
Re: (Score:2)
Line numbers were great. You could add line 15 at any time!
But M$ gave us BAT files, which are terrible.
Command.com (Score:3)
But M$ gave us BAT files, which are terrible.
In principle, BAT files are shell scripts. But in practice, I agree that Command.com remained underpowered as a shell. In fact, it was so underpowered that the maker of Scotch tape bought the name to use it for adhesive hanging hooks [command.com]. Cmd.exe in Windows NT family fixed this somewhat, but as I understand it, Microsoft's command prompt didn't fully meet the power of UNIX shells until PowerShell.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I use the windows command prompt every day and have for a very long time but I do have a nice collection of vbscripts and third party tools that are intended to run from the prompt. I never use powershell and I work in a mostly windows environment I would say that those vbscripts and third party tools make it fairly close to powershell.
Re: (Score:2)
And if you haven't seen ASCII-art porn images come clacking out of a teletype with a phone-cradle modem to a time-sharing computer, then you weren't there (thankfully perhaps). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T... [wikipedia.org]
Briefly I had to deal with compiled programs on decks of IBM cards. BASIC was much nicer for a student doing small programs because it was interpreted and you could fix it as you went along (in memory). Those card decks looked cool on Hawaii Five-0, but one syntax mistake in a cobol or fortran program
Re: (Score:2)
I used to have the astronaut on the moon ASCII poster in my bedroom in high school.
We used to print them on the DECwriter instead of the TTY33 because they were faster and looked better. The lab nazis would get pissed if they caught you running posters, but it was easier to get away with if it took less time. The TTYs were only viable if you snuck into one of the non-CompSci labs, like in the psychology building, after hours.
Brings back memories of TASC (Score:3)
The AppleSoft Compiler. It seemed like magic, programs ran so much faster than interpreted. I seem to remember a demo BASIC brickout game being basically unplayable compiled because it ran so fast.
Re: (Score:3)
Microsoft's TASC was also impressive because it was written in AppleSoft Basic and compiled with itself. No small feat, considering the Basic of the time. It was the first compiler I ever bought.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sure it's coincidental that "M$" likewise suggests Microsoft's financial rapacity, of course.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
What you say is interesting, but I disagree.
People use M$ in the same way they use Di$ney ... to connote money grubbing corporations.
I have never understood that to have anything to do with variables in BASIC.
Though, for all I know, you could be correct. But I've never used it that way.
It means both (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I assumed that it was a reference to their relentless pursuit of cash at all costs (including quality).
Re: (Score:2)
10 FOR A = 0 TO 1024
20 PRINT CHR$(PEEK(A));
30 NEXT A
and somewhere along the way it came out with "M I C R O S O F T"
Re: (Score:2)
Mod parent -1 Complete And Utter Bullshit.
Re: (Score:2)
Celebrate (Score:2)
I'm going to celebrate by making each of my kids write a simple program in BASIC. They can start on 4/20 and have to be complete by 4/30.
It's how I got started by gum and if it was good enough for me, and it was, than it's good enough for them!
http://www.freebasic.net/ [freebasic.net]
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sure the late John Kemeny [nytimes.com], sbown hire watching daughter Jennifer write a BASIC program [flickr.com], would approve!
Re: (Score:2)
Nice, love the second link/picture. It's nice to know that despite some differences (cloths, equipment) some things never change! :-)
Re: (Score:2)
Get your kids a Maximite [geoffg.net].
80Mhz, 128Kb RAM, 8 colour, Stereo Amiga-MOD playing, very hackable BASIC computer.
Just add a VGA monitor, PS/2 keyboard and SD card for storage.
10 REM HAPPY BIRTHDAY (Score:2)
30 IF X = 50 THEN 60
40 LET X = X + 1
50 GOTO 30
60 PRINT "HAPPY "
70 PRINT X
80 PRINT " BASIC!"
Re: (Score:3)
As memory serves, you would want semicolons after lines 60 and 70 so as not to cause a new line. The dangers of posting untested code to the web.
Anyway, I thought I'd share the greatest program I ever wrote: a chat-bot. I was 8 and taking a summer school BASIC class in 1984. Near the end of the summer, we had a group of seniors visiting, so I wrote a really simple chat program - just asked some questions and provided canned responses. When those seniors saw the computer talking about the weather they go
My only programming class, ever. (Score:1)
So of course my entire career has been spent using computers. I did use BASIC on my first job (HP 9830, dual cassette drives and a whopping 16KB of RAM), doing real-time data acquisition on large centrifugal compressors. I also wrote a resume as a series of PRINT stat
One of my earliest multiuser gaming experiences. (Score:4, Insightful)
Back in the day, I knew people that could provide me with magic phone numbers that would allow me to dial anywhere in the world, for free. Imagine that, right? I was only like 13. Statute of limitations and all that. This was in the 80s I guess.
Anyway, I remember we used to somehow dial into a Darthmouth mainframe and from there we could do a couple things. They had some kind of multiuser Zork (or Zork-ish) text adventure that you could play. I tried it a couple times but I couldn't get into it at the time, even though I loved Infocom games.
The biggest appeal was getting into the chat system. There, we could chat with what I assume were Darthmouth college students. "JOIN XYZ" I think was the command from the main menu.
There was this cool VT display of who was in the chat, so you could tell how many people were there. I used to chat with these people all the time. It was great for a precocious 13 year old who couldn't talk with his peers because his vocabulary and worldview was greatly expanded from theirs. How unfortunate that my social skills were so backward at the same time.
The details are a bit foggy, but I'm sure with some conversation with some of the same folks who used to chat there, I could dredge up those memories. Anyone remember chatting on that system?
Re: (Score:1)
The biggest appeal was getting into the chat system. There, we could chat with what I assume were Darthmouth college students. "JOIN XYZ" I think was the command from the main menu.
There was this cool VT display of who was in the chat, so you could tell how many people were there. I used to chat with these people all the time. It was great for a precocious 13 year old who couldn't talk with his peers because his vocabulary and worldview was greatly expanded from theirs. How unfortunate that my social skills were so backward at the same time.
The details are a bit foggy, but I'm sure with some conversation with some of the same folks who used to chat there, I could dredge up those memories. Anyone remember chatting on that system?
Oh yes. I was a freshman in '80, and I spent a lot (too much?) time in Kiewit, playing the adventure game, writing programs in BASIC (and later BASIC7, which had a multi-threaded version if you can believe that) chatting on XYZ. Probably talked to you at one point.
BTW, it's 'Dartmouth'. I'm not fussy, but I'm sure there are alums who are.
Re: (Score:2)
It was a typo, of course. I've typed "darth"-something many more times than "dart"-something else in my life.
'80 was probably too early. I would have been single digits. It was probably more like '84-'85 maybe? I remember some people had personal channels they would use, like some dude named Greg hung out in channel 32 I think?
I guess it would be kind of weird and wrong to ask what your username was? I can't even remember mine for sure; it might have been Warewolph, or The Hoodlum. Both awful handles that I
Re: (Score:2)
The Dartmouth BASIC timeshare system also had Star Trek and Lunar Lander (in 1972, anyway). Good times!
Mixed blessing (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
There are some good versions of BASIC, even from years ago.
Consider BBC BASIC for the BBC Microcomputer (a very common computer in the 1980s in British education and schools). BBC BASIC supports named procedures and local variables so you can write BBC BASIC programs just as structured as pretty much any other language. It's one of the few BASICs where you can easily write recursive routines (since it has local variables).
Then there are BASICs that are just awful, like the excuse for a language interpreter
Re: (Score:2)
Well ...
BASIC is still used in the micro-controller & embedded device, and is now structured as ever.
Check out MM Basic [mmbasic.com]
Re: (Score:3)
That's what the B in BASIC is for -- Beginners. You use it to learn about variables and loops and if statements and other such concepts. Then you move on to other languages (C, Python, etc.) where the concepts are the same but the languages are better structured.
Re: (Score:2)
I remember as a kid believing in this odd concept of programming hierarchy.
You start with Basic, move to Pascal, then to C finally you end up in Assembly.
However experience has taught me that Programming languages do not fall in a hierarchy, but tools good at solving different problems.
Basic is good at Throw Away code. Solve your problem give your result. Doing it in any other language you are just wasting your time with details.
Pascal is good for that simple program that you want to maintain and share and
Re: (Score:2)
This meme isn't dead yet?
Give it up, man. If you can't, at least come up with an actual reason for hanging on to it.
ewww (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
Too bad K&R didn't get to work a few years sooner..
Too bad K&R got to work at all. C is just a bastardized form of BCPL [wikipedia.org]. The IT world would be a better place if the BCPL language tree had died at the root.
Meh (Score:2)
Yeah, I've got a box full of old Creative Computing mags in the attic, and yeah, BASIC was my first programming language. But celebrate its birthday? Meh...
The language certainly has its place in history, but frankly I moved on a long time ago, and for damn good reason. To me, this would be like celebrating the birthday of the Hustle or Electric Slide. I might occasionally pine for the days of wall-to-wall shag carpeting, but that doesn't mean I'm about to install it in my living room again "for old time'
Re: (Score:2)
Think of it more like the anniversary of the slide rule. Sure, you wouldn't use it today for doing calculations, put it has a place in history and was a step toward more powerful things. And some amazing stuff was done with it, like going to the moon.
Obligatory link of love (Score:2)
http://www.vintage-basic.net/g... [vintage-basic.net]
"BASIC Computer Games
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BASIC Computer Games
Author David H. Ahl
Subject Computer programming
Publication date
1973
BASIC Computer Games (1973, 1978, 2010) is a compilation of type-in computer games in the BASIC programming language collected by David H. Ahl. Some of the games were written or modified by Ahl as well. It was the first million-selling computer book.[1]
The first edition of the book, released in 1973, contained 101 games that h
Re: (Score:2)
I had to pay for a copy of that book from the library, which got misplaced. I swear it was returned, but they never got it. It was more expensive then I thought it should have been.
Re: (Score:2)
Sigh. I still have my 1st edition copy, slightly worn. It took 4 of us in high school to type in sections of that Star Trek game (110 baud ASR-33, acoustic coupler). But then we played it until they banned the game due to excessive paper use :-) The advent of CRT terminals a few years later was greeted like the 2nd Coming...
The book itself was banned in a number of school computer centers (well, the few schools that *had* computers at the time). Including the one at SPC, where a certain kid named Gate
Ahh, BASIC (Score:3)
The last, and only, computer language in which I was ever fluent.
*sigh*
I wrote my whole BBS package in BASIC (Score:2)
When I first got interested in running a computer bulletin board system, around 1986-87, I had a Tandy Color Computer 2 (with a whopping 64K of RAM) and a 300 baud auto-dial/auto-answer modem. What I didn't have was any good software to use for the purpose. Back then, the only BBS package I really knew of for the platform was a commercial one called Colorama (typically sold in "Rainbow" magazine, a Tandy Color Computer publication). As a kid who had a LOT more time than money, I was pretty uninterested in t
Re: (Score:2)
There was a POKE you could use on the CoCo2 (and some versions of the CoCo1) that would switch to a character palette that displayed the lowercase characters as such.
I recall having a driver that let you use the "hi-res" (256x192! Look out!) mode as the console, so you got more space, but more importantly could mix graphics and text quite easily. If your friend was responsible for that thing and you're still in touch with him, please thank him for me, because that thing rocked.
I see...NERDS (Score:3)
...and the world is all the better for it!
...laura
Not the best, but it was my first (Score:2)
BASIC may not be the best programming language, far from it, but it was my first and it gave me the love of programming that lead to where I am today. I got my first TRS Color Computer 2 when I was 10 for Christmas and I will never forget typing in my first example program (and saving it on a tape) and then starting to experiment and figure out what else I could do with this wonder. From there I upgraded to a CoCo 3 and eventually QuickBASIC on a PC. With that I wrote an AI program that got me to an Inte
Is it just me or... (Score:2)
Err, not the "birth of time-sharing" (Score:2)
BASIC, sure, but time-sharing might better be dated to 1961, when CTSS was first demonstrated, and soon after widely used at MIT.
Re: (Score:2)
But, yes, undisputably, Dartmouth gave us BASIC, and like George Washington's proverbial axe (which had both its head and handle replaced multiple times), BASIC remains with us today. At least it's not as harmful as C; BASIC arrays and strings always had bounds-checking.
BASIC (Score:3)
Apparently, so is spelling (Score:2)
Dartmouth CS (Score:1, Interesting)
I graduated from Dartmouth in 2002 with a CS degree. Let me tell you, the reason they are throwing this big party for BASIC is because that department hasn't done shit since 1964. If I had to do it again, I would do it at a different school. The only good thing I can say about Dartmouth is that I found refuge in a gentle, fostering fraternity [sigmanudartmouth.com] -- and that is the one thing that the Dartmouth administration has been bent on destroying [dartmouth.edu]. That campus is a wasteland of feuding heartless conservatives [dartreview.com] and asinine l [dartmouth.edu]
The original Basic Book (Score:2)
I still think that Basic Programming [http://www.amazon.com/BASIC-Programming-John-G-Kemeny/dp/0471468304] by Kemeny & Kurtz (Basic creators) is a very fine way to teach a language. Practically every sample was useful in itself. Very didactic and well written.
Re: (Score:2)
The deal with Basic was it was everywhere. Any computer you had access to had Basic readily available from the command prompt.
Now , it's Javascript. Available on most computers and runs on most computers.
Atari Explorer (Score:2)
Yes, I have a few Creative Computings around. But I got my start after reading an article in Atari Explorer magazine about BASIC. I cut my teeth on the horrible Basic that was Atari ST Basic. But then I moved to the awesome GFA Basic. From there to C and various other languages. Remember the "B" in Basic stands for Beginner. It's a good language to teach the fundamentals -- variables, looping, etc.
Remember, the B in BASIC is for Beginners (Score:2)
Surprised at the number of hateful comments regarding BASIC. Even when it was created it was aimed at novices not experts, hence the name: Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code. The true value was that the simple syntax made learning programming concepts much simpler. I used to teach a beginning programming class in the 80's that used BASIC. I always felt that I was able to instill a better understanding of what was going on with the simple Line # VERB parameter syntax of the early language.
BASIC bad, ?? good (Score:2)
We all know the Dijkstra quote... "It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration."
Enough bashing then... what is an *excellent* choice of language to teach to beginners?
Re: (Score:2)
I recommend MMBasic on a Maximite
Quoting from http://mmbasic.com/ [mmbasic.com] :
Bunky? (Score:2)
Well then, Bunky
...what?
Happy Birthday Basic (Score:2)
10 ? "HAPPY BIRTHDAY BASIC!"
20 GOTO 10
30 REM This comment so the Slashdot filter won't complain about the all caps code yelling
Dartmouth should put a DTSS-BASIC system to shell (Score:2)
I'm surprised that they haven't put some kind of DTSS/BASIC system up for people to shell into to see what it was like. I know there's a simulator, but they could put up a system with that XYZ and other things I've seen in this discussion. I had heard about DTSS before, but never got to experience anything like that...unlike some other lucky Slashdotters with high schools privileged enough to have a terminal connected to some university system.
My first program... (Score:2)
My very first program was 'hello world' in Basic on the High School computer lab's Apple ][ in 1981 (learned Fortran in that same course). I got a TI 99A for my birthday that year, and I wrote more noddy programs in Basic over the next few years, saving them meticulously on cassette tape.
I can't imagine using Basic for anything useful these days, but it was fun while it lasted.
Re:Posts like these (Score:5, Funny)
Funny. You care enough to post. Maybe, unlike many of us here, you didn't cut your teeth on it, and it's not of interest to you. But, unlike you, I had my first programming class in high school in the early 70s, and have fond memories of acoustic modems, hooked to teletypes, and punching out our programs on the paper tape unit attached to them. Maybe you'd consider those of us from that era to be dinosaurs. I have one thing to say to that...get the fuck off my lawn whippersnapper!
Re: (Score:3)
Maybe you just don't have a very good grasp on who "most people here" are.
Re:Posts like these (Score:5, Insightful)
If "most people here" care neither about the 50th anniversary of BASIC nor of time-sharing on computers ... one might argue that "most people here" aren't actually the target audience for Slashdot.
That's like saying on an aviation forum nobody cares about the Wright Brothers's place in history.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh OK: Let me change that to -1 (Most people here don't care)
That's probably true for most of the stories that get posted here, but normal people skip the stories they're not interested in and comment on the ones they are interested in without being whiny bitches.
Just let it go
I think you need to take your own advice. Why does it annoy you so much that other people aren't like you (or at least, aren't like you claim to be)?
Re: (Score:2)
Oh OK: Let me change that to -1 (Most people here don't care)
Your karma suggests that there is at least one thing that most of the people here can agree upon.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
lead me to think that slashdot needs a moderation system for articles.
-1 (Nobody cares)
10 PRINT "MOD PARENT DOWN"
20 GOTO 10
Re: (Score:2)
Please make a MM Basic [mmbasic.com] version for the Maximite [geoffg.net] !